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| halfies United Kingdom. February 29 2012 05:24. Posts 318 | Profile # |
| props to playhem for the response, dragon should definitely take them up on it |
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| Bonkarooni United States. February 29 2012 05:26. Posts 322 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 20:23 Demolicious wrote:
Did you honestly even watch the video?
I guess Kaku put his foot in his mouth, but Bonk? He was trying to get Kaku to stop, and made it pretty clear that he didn't share the same views..Did you honestly even watch the video?
@ Dommk
- Bonk just seems young and really not up to date with current trends/ styles. Some of his comments stupify me. He needs to improve also, but he caused no disrespect from what i heard.
lol, I seem young? i'm 24 T.T Can I actually ask you what comments I made that stupified you? I want to improve as a caster, and Dragons styles were something I was a little unfamilar with to be honest...
I actually think I did a pretty good job of analyzing the play, despite all of the drama surrounding things. If you're looking for another point of view on the entire event though...
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qa4w6/bonks_thoughts_on_the_dragon_issue_katus_cocaster/
I would also kindly ask you to not start a witch hunt on the entire playhem community based on one night of casting. Have you taken the time to watch any of our other casts? |
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| Choco2689 United States. February 29 2012 05:32. Posts 29 | Profile # |
Let's see.... EU Playham viewers: 1130. Dragon viewers: 3791 viewers.
Hmmm. "SUSSESS!"???? |
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| pigmanbear Angola. February 29 2012 05:35. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
I just watched the VOD again, and it is tough to tell for sure what caused Dragon to not land the factory (which is the major sticking point) and to make it build a tech lab instead.
Analysis giving Dragon benefit of the doubt: Hyun had no queens and no zergling speed. This could hint at roach aggression (he doesn't need that many larvae) or at a gasless build with a fast third, which might explain why he felt safe with a fast third CC. The zerglings start to harrass his wall more, he thinks about what he's seen, and has an "oh shit" moment where he suddenly expects roaches.
Analysis to the contrary: If it looks like a fast third, and lings don't have speed, why don't you land the factory and start pumping hellions, especially on a map this large? Why does he start fortifying the wall outside his main without scouting anything? We see a huge switch in Dragon's build based on very limited information.
In the end it's really tough to say. It looks more to me like Dragon was expecting a high-econ baneling bust, which is why he was reinforcing his wall and looking to get siege tech quickly. But it's always suspicious when somebody reacts like they've received some great intel when really nothing in their vision has changed for several minutes. |
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| Demolicious Australia. February 29 2012 05:37. Posts 38 | Profile # |
On February 29 2012 05:26 Bonkarooni wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 20:23 Demolicious wrote:
Did you honestly even watch the video?
I guess Kaku put his foot in his mouth, but Bonk? He was trying to get Kaku to stop, and made it pretty clear that he didn't share the same views..Did you honestly even watch the video?
@ Dommk
- Bonk just seems young and really not up to date with current trends/ styles. Some of his comments stupify me. He needs to improve also, but he caused no disrespect from what i heard.
lol, I seem young? i'm 24 T.T Can I actually ask you what comments I made that stupified you? I want to improve as a caster, and Dragons styles were something I was a little unfamilar with to be honest... I actually think I did a pretty good job of analyzing the play, despite all of the drama surrounding things. If you're looking for another point of view on the entire event though... http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qa4w6/bonks_thoughts_on_the_dragon_issue_katus_cocaster/I would also kindly ask you to not start a witch hunt on the entire playhem community based on one night of casting. Have you taken the time to watch any of our other casts?
Firstly you couldnt seem to get over the fact that the 3 orbital strat can beat an all in. FYI this is a successful strat was started by MVP many many months ago. You mentioned it quite a few times and couldn't seem to fathom why it was working.
- 24 is still young
-you did well to save yourself in the heat of the moment
-dont give me this witch hunt BS, I'm standing up for the player who was unable to defend himself while he was getting backstabbed by a caster who is a member of a professional organisation.Last edit: 2012-02-29 05:39:18 |
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| FidoDido United States. February 29 2012 05:41. Posts 1281 | Profile # |
You know who I felt the worst for the whole time during the stream? Bonk. He sounded like he didn't want to be a part of it and you can tell by his tone he doesn't agree with with Katu but at the same time he doesn't want to call out his co-caster on stream. Now his name will be forever remembered as a part of something negative. 
This whole thing reminds me Mike Meyers and Kanye West during that Katrina thing on TV. |
| | LGIMSeed FantasyToss~~ Hipster Seed fan before he made Code A |  |
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| matiK23 United States. February 29 2012 05:43. Posts 878 | Profile # |
I'm going to say what I said in the playhem thread because people are derping way too much and don't seem to get it through their thick heads, on both sides.
"Leave Katu alone! He's not a douche bag in real life!" "Redditor pitchforks never watched Katu until now, they just don't get his personality!"
So pathetic how your personal relationships blind you from the bigger picture, which is to make esports into a more serious, reputable event to the mainstream. You want to see Starcraft on your tv? So do I, but this type of slandering is unacceptable. If you don't mind this type of trolling, that's fine but don't think e sports will become reality if you tolerate this type of behavior.
Artosis, on SOTG, once talked about how players in the lobby would bash him for delay of game or whatever. That of course would put him in a bad mood but Artosis sucks it up and casts the game and has to be unbiased and not slander TE player who just bashed him. Artosis realizes that AS A CASTER YOUR JOB IS TO CaST AND ANALYZE the game playing, NOT to troll the chat and slander a participant. You can't take the heat? Then get out the kitchen. Watch the VODs and tell me if Katu's behavior is acceptable in an actual professional sports cast? Can you imagine the outrage if a broadcaster did the same thing as Katu, to X athlete?
But you say esports isnt even that big yet do Katu can act this way. Like I said I don't care if you accept t, but don't expect "e-sports" to go anywhere. More than half of all these posts and so called counter arguments are laughable and not even remotely feasible, just retarded opinions that are as bad as reddit pitchforks.
Edit: I say both sides are bad because pitchforks are extreme and I believe Katu deserves a second chance with time
Edit: iPhone has the worst keyboard and the most retarded spellcheckLast edit: 2012-02-29 05:53:10 |
| | Without a paddle up shit creek. |
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| marcelluspye United States. February 29 2012 05:46. Posts 151 | Profile # |
On February 29 2012 05:35 pigmanbear wrote:
I just watched the VOD again, and it is tough to tell for sure what caused Dragon to not land the factory (which is the major sticking point) and to make it build a tech lab instead.
Analysis giving Dragon benefit of the doubt: Hyun had no queens and no zergling speed. This could hint at roach aggression (he doesn't need that many larvae) or at a gasless build with a fast third, which might explain why he felt safe with a fast third CC. The zerglings start to harrass his wall more, he thinks about what he's seen, and has an "oh shit" moment where he suddenly expects roaches.
Analysis to the contrary: If it looks like a fast third, and lings don't have speed, why don't you land the factory and start pumping hellions, especially on a map this large? Why does he start fortifying the wall outside his main without scouting anything? We see a huge switch in Dragon's build based on very limited information.
In the end it's really tough to say. It looks more to me like Dragon was expecting a high-econ baneling bust, which is why he was reinforcing his wall and looking to get siege tech quickly. But it's always suspicious when somebody reacts like they've received some great intel when really nothing in their vision has changed for several minutes.
Dragon was streaming his games (I think) during the event, with 3x more viewers than the playhem stream, so if he were actually cheating I think someone would have spoken up.Last edit: 2012-02-29 05:46:46 |
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| K3Nyy United States. February 29 2012 05:48. Posts 1710 | Profile # |
| Katu made a mistake. I think he should apologize and be punished for calling a progamer a cheater, BUT if you look at what he has done for the community, the least we could do is forgive him. People make mistakes and mess up, but everyone deserves a second chance. Also, some of the criticism is way too extreme and with all that he contributed for us, he's taking too much shit than he deserves in my opinion. |
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| LayZRR Germany. February 29 2012 05:55. Posts 396 | Profile # |
the fuck. its just trash talk from some casters.
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| Sein United States. February 29 2012 06:01. Posts 1649 | Profile Blog # |
| Do Playhem release replays? Katu got his facts wrong and his casting was definitely unprofessional, but I would still like to watch the replays regardless. Floating that factory right above the barracks to swap out for the reactor then suddenly building a tech lab instead when the roaches were coming in the first game was just a bit strange. However, starting a bunker above the ramp right as the roach warren finished and roaches were in production even though his expo OC already landed in the natural area, as well as once again moving back the factory that was positioned right next to the barracks building a reactor and getting a tech lab instead, well, I don't know what to say about those. Perhaps watching the replay from his POV will explain his thought progress. |
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| Zarahtra Iceland. February 29 2012 06:01. Posts 3257 | Profile # |
| I mean after listening to it, I mean it was just a very poor joke. I mean I'm normally pretty critical to these kind of things, but to me, it was just so clear that he was joking around. Heck 15 minutes later he apologizes and explains himself. So yeah, obviously these kind of jokes shouldn't be ignored, but I don't feel it is a big deal, he knows he made a silly mistake. |
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| Beakyboo United States. February 29 2012 06:03. Posts 233 | Profile # |
Watched it and it didn't even seem that bad honestly. Was expecting something way worse given the comments here, but I'm not even surprised at the overreaction considering how 'passionate'  the community is.
He was obviously trolling past a point. Maybe he was off on his facts and speculated a bit, but given the actual history, I really didn't get the impression that he was trying to slander Dragon or anything. If a player has a history of stream cheating is it really so ridiculous to speculate about him doing it again? So he was streaming and the speculation was off, who cares? All the 'greedy play' comments were completely neutral and warranted too, he was being extremely greedy.
People need to stop freaking out. I really don't think this guy's the massive asshole you're making him out to be. |
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| SaroVati Canada. February 29 2012 06:03. Posts 245 | Profile # |
I agree Katu made a mistake, but seriously people. If Dragon wasn't stream cheating (and based on the common opinion, his 3k viewers don't think he did), he wouldn't even care about what the casters say. I've had many casted games where the casters are either making fun of / ridiculing my play even though they are clearly no where near the same skill level. All I can say is: Deal with it. If the player isn't even outwardly angry about it, why are his fans attempting to butcher a poor caster who is HELPING you watch and enjoy the game? He is a professional (this is debatable because I doubt he makes too much money either), and this is unacceptable, but seriously people.
I'm depressed as to how a section of the community so quickly jumps on a guys ass for one mistake. It's not like he lied about anything either.... Dragon HAS been known to have stream cheated, and although he is insinuating things that may not be true, he shouldn't be nailed to a cross. |
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| Sein United States. February 29 2012 06:05. Posts 1649 | Profile Blog # |
On February 29 2012 05:46 marcelluspye wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 05:35 pigmanbear wrote:
I just watched the VOD again, and it is tough to tell for sure what caused Dragon to not land the factory (which is the major sticking point) and to make it build a tech lab instead.
Analysis giving Dragon benefit of the doubt: Hyun had no queens and no zergling speed. This could hint at roach aggression (he doesn't need that many larvae) or at a gasless build with a fast third, which might explain why he felt safe with a fast third CC. The zerglings start to harrass his wall more, he thinks about what he's seen, and has an "oh shit" moment where he suddenly expects roaches.
Analysis to the contrary: If it looks like a fast third, and lings don't have speed, why don't you land the factory and start pumping hellions, especially on a map this large? Why does he start fortifying the wall outside his main without scouting anything? We see a huge switch in Dragon's build based on very limited information.
In the end it's really tough to say. It looks more to me like Dragon was expecting a high-econ baneling bust, which is why he was reinforcing his wall and looking to get siege tech quickly. But it's always suspicious when somebody reacts like they've received some great intel when really nothing in their vision has changed for several minutes.
Dragon was streaming his games (I think) during the event, with 3x more viewers than the playhem stream, so if he were actually cheating I think someone would have spoken up.
Streaming doesn't actually prove anything if you think about it. Dual monitor, a second computer/laptop, plenty of ways to get around it. |
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| TZPOP February 29 2012 06:06. Posts 1 | Profile # |
hahahah, wow just listened to the vod and like want kind of person would get upset about that? you have to be one of the biggest losers to throw such a shit storm over something so small. its not like its some secret information being released about dragon being a proven cheater. i dont even know who katu is but i feel bad for him, but i feel worse for bonk, that guy was really bad at casting. and LOL@people comparing PLAYHEM to GOM rofl.
User was warned for this post |
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| m4inbrain February 29 2012 06:09. Posts 1116 | Profile # |
.. So, a "former" cheater is being trolled for cheating on stream, and now everyone wants to burn playhems office to the ground and lynch everyone which cant get away fast enough, did i sum this "drama" up correctly?
Just to state my opinion on that.. Katu did wrong, he should have either trolled more clearly, or not trolled at all - he deserves to be punished for that. Not by banning for live, but by taking a break for some time, doing background work and not casting at all. Thats the first.
Second: Dragon. I know, fanboys will jump me like a horny virgin, but: while i think its a generous offer from playhem to pay hotel and whatnot, he does NOT deserve it. Fact is, he cheated. Not 10 years ago in brood war, but in SC2. He said he will never play "pro" again, yet here he is. Playing "pro" again. Funny thing is, he didnt get severly punished for the cheating, because everyone took his word for granted, that he would stop playing SC competetively.
Well, to me it looks, Dragon has pretty much his own problems, because i actually dont see why he should even be rewarded (flight, hotel, etc) for former streamcheating. Thats borderline retarded, especially because there wasnt any punishment to speak of in the first place. Once a cheater, always a cheater. And not only did he cheat, he broke his word right after that. Theres no grudge for me against dragon (watched some of his "trollgames", which were fun), but i really think its NOT the right way to pamper and sugarcoat fucking "former" cheaters. If anything, it should be the other way around. He has to redeem himself. He should be the one who needs to be humble, and apologizing (screw the shit he used as excuse, wtf?). Not just for now, but in the future as well. TT1 etc are getting flak even until today for "former" cheating, yet you want to fly another one which (in terms of SC history) only recently was caught?
The starcraft-community is really getting ridiculous, its not even funny anymore. |
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 Longshank February 29 2012 06:12. Posts 1311 | Profile # |
On February 29 2012 06:09 m4inbrain wrote:
.. So, a "former" cheater is being trolled for cheating on stream, and now everyone wants to burn playhems office to the ground and lynch everyone which cant get away fast enough, did i sum this "drama" up correctly?
Not even close.
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| StarStrider United States. February 29 2012 06:13. Posts 687 | Profile # |
I watch pretty much every SC2 stream that hits the TL sidebar on a daily basis. I have a lot of dead time to fill at my lame job. This means I have seen a TON of Playhem and a TON of Katu, both on Playhem and on ESW and KSL and some other things. My opinion may not mean much to people who are worked up about this drama (unneccesarily imo), but Katu is actually a really good caster, he isn't known to BM people on a regular basis. It was a joke in poor taste, but with truth in it. It is the same when casters make reference to Idra rage or Tyler's depression or Rainbow going all in or Sheth being manner. It is just something to talk about the player. Now, making a bad joke about it on air while working for a professional company like Playhem is probably a bad idea, but I don't know why everyone is freaking out about it and demonizing Katu. I mean, Dragon made mistakes when he cheated, and now he pays the price with his name. The same thing may happen with Katu. But this is not representative of what I've seen from Playhem on a nightly basis at all, especially from Katu, he does troll sometimes but this is uncharacteristically unprofessional of him. I would say just give him another chance after his mistake as you would like Dragon to be given another chance after his mistakes. Katu is one of the most passionate about SC2 casters that I know, and I know that he won't have to learn this lesson more than once.
EDIT: Put my edit in another post.Last edit: 2012-02-29 06:22:19 |
| | Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요 |  |
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| m4inbrain February 29 2012 06:13. Posts 1116 | Profile # |
On February 29 2012 06:12 Longshank wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 06:09 m4inbrain wrote:
.. So, a "former" cheater is being trolled for cheating on stream, and now everyone wants to burn playhems office to the ground and lynch everyone which cant get away fast enough, did i sum this "drama" up correctly?
Not even close.
I just read the first 10 pages, and it pretty much sums it up, if you consider all the "i will enver wathc palyhem again!1!". |
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