| CrtBalorda Slovenia. March 01 2012 18:40. Posts 535 | Profile # |
| The pointts here dont really mean that they cant be used for defence, to get to you expos quicker, also if nydus worms suck, why are overlord drops never use ever, so underused. |
| | 4th August 2012...Never forget..... |
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| Big J Austria. March 01 2012 18:41. Posts 5033 | Profile Blog # |
On March 01 2012 18:35 Murlox wrote:
A great thing I regret not seeing much is to use the nydus canal as an escape mechanism after a doom drop.
1. Overlord drop their base
2. Plant a nydus in a corner of their base (opposite side from ramp)
3. When he comes back to defend, move every unit into the nydus instead of losing them
4. Profit..
or you load your units back into Overlords that wait in the same position and load up much faster, as you have already everything you need for it (drops, speed, the overlords in position) and don't need an extra investment of 200/300. |
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| Defacer Canada. March 01 2012 18:42. Posts 4812 | Profile Blog # |
| I've messed around with Nydus', and even at the crappy level I play at, my opponent has to be significantly worse than me for them to be effective. |
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| zul Germany. March 01 2012 18:46. Posts 4053 | Profile Blog # |
nydus is hard to pull off. the low hp and kinda long build time makes it easy to cancel/kill, even for a few enemy workers. In addition to that nydus is best when it comes as a surprise, but sacrificing 300 gas early in the game is tough and a total waste if you do no damage. I sometimes use nydus when I play muta/ling and place a nydus in the enemy base while harrasing with mutas. But often this is just a gimmicky move and I feel I would have won most games without it.
edit: on top of all that: why the f... is that alarm sound necessary? it`s like "lol my zerg oponent just wasted 300 gas. let me defend and then counter ^________^ me likey"Last edit: 2012-03-01 18:52:46 |
| | keep it deep! @zulison |  |
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| BoxingKangaroo Japan. March 01 2012 18:50. Posts 809 | Profile Blog # |
On March 01 2012 18:40 CrtBalorda wrote:
The pointts here dont really mean that they cant be used for defence, to get to you expos quicker, also if nydus worms suck, why are overlord drops never use ever, so underused.
They kinda do. Defence wise they're useless, because they're the first thing that an enemy will snipe on getting near your expo. Since they have low health, they are sniped quickly and because they unload one at a time, reinforcing your expo this way is suicide.
Maybe a pro one day will revolutionise nydus worms, but I don't think it'll be for a while. Their cost is similar to drops but unlike drops you can't hit multiple places at once. I feel one of two changes need to take place:
1. Be able to make multiple nydus heads from one main building. This may be way to OP though.
2. A nydus head starts at low health, but it's health gradually increases once it pops up to some maximum limit. This way they're still easy to kill for a player on the lookout, but can they can be used better defensively since you can place them at your expos long before the enemy arrives and the nydus has a chance to get up to its maximum health limit. They're harder to snipe in other words. I think this would also introduce an interesting gameplay element where the enemy is time constrained on killing the nydus, lest it become harder and harder to kill. |
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| BBQSAC Australia. March 01 2012 18:53. Posts 89 | Profile # |
Nydus worms are fun but the only time they tend to work is against FFE and even then they really shouldn't, pretty much the same as proxy hatch in P's main 
The simplest fix i can think of would be to give them building armour of 4 or 5 so that your enormous investment requires more than a handful of probes to kill. Cost and/ or build time on heads could also do with some scrutiny but I think nydus worms will remain a bit of a giggle/ cheese vs FFE for a while to come. Maybe HOTS will give them a revamp? |
| | Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis requiem. |
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| mememolly March 01 2012 18:55. Posts 4222 | Profile # |
On March 01 2012 13:47 Torte de Lini wrote:
Can't be canceled.
Expensive to build.
Expensive to make a Nydus.
Obvious and limited use.
units come out one at a time when you unload
this, blizz need to experiment with the amount of units that come out of it at a time |
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| bgx Poland. March 01 2012 18:58. Posts 6516 | Profile # |
| Because its trash, drops are also undersused, all of these moves besides raelly late game are way to risky, you risk to much. I never liked the idea of offensive Nydus, because its capable of being offensive the defensive atributes got nerfed(slow deploy, alarm), also drops cover kinda similar area (invading opponent base), kinda redundant. |
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| KenZo- Hong Kong. March 01 2012 18:59. Posts 179 | Profile # |
| LiquidZenio used it about 30 minutes ago in code A against MVPsC. Used it to draw back Sc's units, then attacked at his fourth. |
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| Confuse March 01 2012 19:01. Posts 1805 | Profile # |
On March 01 2012 18:59 KenZo- wrote:
LiquidZenio used it about 30 minutes ago in code A against MVPsC. Used it to draw back Sc's units, then attacked at his fourth.
Yep. Actually worked out perfectly given SC's split was definitely wrong which left him very hurt in the next engagement. Nydus wurms may see play yet! |
| | If we fear what we do not understand, then why is ignorance bliss? |  |
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| Tppz! Germany. March 01 2012 19:01. Posts 1311 | Profile # |
| I think in lategame situations. where the opponent hasnt got any units in his main (like scvs etc) its paying off every time. Especially vs Terran. I hope to see it more often in the future (even though i will die to it most the time) |
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| []Phase[] Belgium. March 01 2012 19:02. Posts 579 | Profile # |
So many "Y U NO NYDUS" threads have been made already. Does it really need another?
Its current form is shit for many reasons, can't you figure it out yourself???Last edit: 2012-03-01 19:02:27 |
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| Murlox France. March 01 2012 19:04. Posts 1084 | Profile Blog # |
On March 01 2012 18:41 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 18:35 Murlox wrote:
A great thing I regret not seeing much is to use the nydus canal as an escape mechanism after a doom drop.
1. Overlord drop their base
2. Plant a nydus in a corner of their base (opposite side from ramp)
3. When he comes back to defend, move every unit into the nydus instead of losing them
4. Profit..
or you load your units back into Overlords that wait in the same position and load up much faster, as you have already everything you need for it (drops, speed, the overlords in position) and don't need an extra investment of 200/300.
And lose half your army and overlords in the process. We all know how this goes.
Drop, move overlords back, plant a nydus, rape his base, and retreat with nydus when he comes back. Clean and simple.Last edit: 2012-03-01 19:07:37 |
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| ZeroWave Israel. March 01 2012 19:06. Posts 49 | Profile # |
They feel like the perfect way to get your Ultra's some more maneuverability and open up something that is not BL's in endgame... I can't say much because I don't play Zerg and not such a good player, but it feels like in late game you can just move so fast through multiple nydus worms that the opposing Terran/Protoss has barley enough time to move his big clumpy army from one nydus to the other.
Maybe if Blizzard reduced the gas cost by 50 or so.. they could nerf it back in a next patch, but maybe that would be the push that the community needs to start seriously considering using it. |
| | Never give up, Never surrender. |
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| Vinland Argentina. March 01 2012 19:10. Posts 128 | Profile # |
I like the idea of Nydus being some sort of "forward Pylon" for zerg, having it as backup when you attack.
Also , Nydus are slown to unload, but very fast to load.
I think they should be used whenever you commit to an atack ussing Ultralisks and/or infestors. If the attack goes well, you can easily keep the pressure with a fast rally from the nydus. And if the attack goes bad, you can at least try to save some Infestors/Ultralisk, which are slow-heavy gas units that you really dont want to lose. Just saving one of them makes the 100gas nydus worth it. |
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| Angel_ United States. March 01 2012 19:13. Posts 1616 | Profile Blog # |
| My honest answer? because players aren't any more creative than they absolutely have to be. For example, nydusing, and dropping, are both so fucking abuse against mech players. That doesn't mean they arent without risk, and i'm not saying that zerg are bad for not using them. But as long as zerg can sort of get by with this roach/infestor/broodlord o fuck transition to ultras when they overmake vikings thing, that's what zerg are going to do. |
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| NeonFox March 01 2012 19:13. Posts 2355 | Profile # |
Btw the nydus network is not 100/100 it's 150/200, not couting the worm itself.
Which makes it not really viable in the midgame, 250 minerals and 300 (!) gas for potientally nothing if he has good vision of his base is huge.
Could be used more in the lategame though, especially in ZvT where you'll have a lot of minerals and cracklings. |
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| Gladiator6 Sweden. March 01 2012 19:19. Posts 6831 | Profile # |
| I think you need to be smart to use them, and so far I've only seen creative players use them or only for 2 base all-ins. |
| | Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO |  |
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| Cinim Denmark. March 01 2012 19:20. Posts 640 | Profile # |
1. Nydus worm itselfs shouldn't be costing gas with the current design.
2. They die too easy, which makes offensive use of them quite bad
3. Units come too slowly out of them.
Fix these 2 things, and nydus will become a lot better units I guess |
| | Hell, it's about time |  |
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| Masayume Netherlands. March 01 2012 19:22. Posts 175 | Profile Blog # |
The only situation in which I see great value in the Nydus worm is with certain compositions and positions in the game like:
-Being maxed with a bank of resources and larvae ready for a remax or reinforcements
-When not at the Broodlord/Infestor stage
This is pretty limited but the situations I can think of from the top of my head are..
ZvP
-Roach/Hydra maxed push versus a defensive protoss to force them to trade units. It is easier to reinforce this push if you use a forward nydus to rally your units into, and have your Creep spread Queen pop out and spread creep at the forward Nydus. This will be a way to make your trade that much more lethal and cost-efficient since it doesn't take 30-40 seconds for your hydras to move across the map. Obviously this is not as efficient on maps with great choke positions to use force fields in. (Think Antiga with good positioning from the Protoss)
ZvT
-Late game bank with an investment into Ultralisks + infestor/ling/bling. (since ultralisk are only worth something with infestor support, aka no stim kiting and cleave miss, and even then...ultra lol) Same situation as in ZvP.
So basically it's extremely limited in forwarding heavy attacks to force trades with turtling players on large maps like TDA or Daybreak.
As for nydus attacks into enemy bases, I think it's just not worth it at all against a good player.
Hopefully I will see someone prove me wrong but at the moment it's an extremely niche option imo.Last edit: 2012-03-01 19:23:08 |
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