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| Lonyo Guernsey. March 06 2012 22:18. Posts 2079 | Profile Blog # |
Earlier today I read this BBC article on smoking and the 60s and how the UK went about combating smoking:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17264442
Just now I read the "Political correctness gone mad" thread about obesity in the US.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318120
There are some obvious similarities:
Both are health issues.
Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues to start/continue.
+ Show Spoiler +You choose usually to start smoking, and for people who aren't children of bad parents, obesity typically something you 'choose' by your lifestyle going forwards. Kids who are raised into obesity have less choice. Some people also claim smoking isn't always a choice, but generally you can realise by the time you are a teen that either or both is bad for your health and can make a decision to continue along that path or do something to rectify it. You have a choice.
Both can be influenced by the same things: advertising, family etc.
Both can be dissuaded in the same way: societal pressure stigmatising them, medical advice/warnings, increased taxation.
So my question is: In countries with obesity problems, how did your contry deal with smoking, if it was dealt with at all?
In the UK we obviously have done many things to try and combat smoking, and there are EU laws banning tobacco advertising, so it's not just a UK thing, but I don't know about other countries.
What have countries done to combat obesity, and is it the same?
Should we learn from smoking to try and combat obesity, or are smoking's lessons not being as effective against obesity?Last edit: 2012-03-06 22:43:12 |
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 CrY. Japan. March 06 2012 22:23. Posts 97 | Profile # |
| In the US (in most states) smoking is completely banned from indoor facilities. Also there are a lot of "above the influence" ads and even quitsmoking.org, which in my state advertises frequently as well. As such (at least in my state) smoking has obviously gone down in popularity; however, there are still many who do it, and it's seen as a personal choice if not a little bit frowned upon. |
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| Marou Korea (South). March 06 2012 22:23. Posts 999 | Profile Blog # |
That's an interesting parralel, France dealt and still is dealing with smoking agressively. I think the anti-smoking law are going to far (especially not being able to smoke in clubs and bars. This should be up to the owner of the place imho).
For combating obesity, there are numerous TV Campaings on how healthy you should eat. Thing is they are nowhere near the anti-tobacco TV Campaing that always have been very graphic and often shoking. When it's about eating healthy it's just rainbows and cute shits telling you to eat 5 fruits and vegetable per day. It's not as powerful as the smoking campaings for sure. |
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| haffy United Kingdom. March 06 2012 22:26. Posts 383 | Profile # |
I doubt anythings ever going to change in the UK. It's just too profitable to have unhealthy quick food everywhere.
I've never actually been on a diet until recently. Even though I'm still eating 2500-3000 calories a day I just can't eat anything I don't buy and cook my self. At least here in the Newcastle I can think of very few places you can go and expect to be able to eat anywhere near as healthy as when you buy your own food.
So yeah, two things need to change in my opinion. Availability of healthy food and the cost. There doesn't really need to be any laws or anything passed. People just need a choice of being able to eat healthy when they're out for a decent price in my opinion. |
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| Rassy Netherlands. March 06 2012 22:27. Posts 1565 | Profile # |
Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice.
There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking.
Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare
Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time.Last edit: 2012-03-06 22:28:34 |
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 Sayle United Kingdom. March 06 2012 22:28. Posts 2857 | Profile # |
| I don't think it's quite the same. Obesity only affects the obese person and their immediate family (this is a generalization that ignores any healthcare-related cost to the taxpayer and similar). Smoking negatively affects any random stranger standing near the smoker, so is a much bigger problem IMO. There are still plenty of smokers here in the UK and they are basically making my health worse when I have to stand next to them at a street crossing or walk behind them while they smoke. |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390936 | |
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| Geiko France. March 06 2012 22:33. Posts 1606 | Profile Blog # |
On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote:
Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice.
There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Have there been any studies indicating that nicotine is more addictive than sugar or fat by the way ? |
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| nam nam Sweden. March 06 2012 22:35. Posts 4556 | Profile # |
| How is smoking self-choice? Yes it's not hardcore narcotics but please. Also smoking effect others to a much higher degree than someone else being obese. Also obesity is much less "self-choice" than some people like to believe. Last edit: 2012-03-06 22:37:08 |
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| BlackJack United States. March 06 2012 22:36. Posts 6691 | Profile Blog # |
| It's hard to "tax" obesity without either discriminating or also taxing healthy people that occasionally buy a treat. The obesity thing is a lot more complex than smoking when it comes to legislating. Smoking is very black and white - you either smoke or you don't, and we're talking about a single product in tobacco. Food is something everyone eats and there are thousands of food options. You just can't target food the same way you could target tobacco. |
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| Lonyo Guernsey. March 06 2012 22:39. Posts 2079 | Profile Blog # |
On March 06 2012 22:35 nam nam wrote:
How is smoking self-choice? Yes it's not hardcore narcotics but please. Also smoking effect others to a much higher degree than someone else being obese. Also obesity is much less "self-choice" than some people like to believe.
Self choice to start, more often than not. I will amend the OP to reflect that.
If anything, smoking is mor eself choice than obesity, for instance if you are an obese child because of your parents. You don't have much choice as a kid to determine your own diet. |
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| beg March 06 2012 22:44. Posts 671 | Profile # |
On March 06 2012 22:33 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote:
Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice.
There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Have there been any studies indicating that nicotine is more addictive than sugar or fat by the way ?
judging from people's success at losing weight, a food addiction is pretty equal to nicotine and crack.
googled a bit -> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/11/03/fatty-and-sugary-food-as-addictive-as-cocaine-and-nicotine_n_1073513.html |
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| DarkPlasmaBall United States. March 06 2012 22:47. Posts 20107 | Profile Blog # |
Obviously there are plenty of health issues relating to being overweight, and I suppose that it doesn't matter if that's due to it being a genetic problem or you simply not taking care of your body over the years.
I'm unsure of how you can tax obese people and not fit people. I'm fit but don't mind the occasional fast food burger. Should we all wear bracelets with our body mass index and medical stats so that we get discounts?
Advertising and talking with your doctor can certainly help, but there's definitely an important distinction between self-image and acceptance of unhealthy behavior in society. Leading a healthier lifestyle is a choice, and you don't want to be so ostracized that you start taking inappropriate measures to lose weight. At the same time, it has to be made clear that weighing 300 pounds when you're 5'6'' is not a good thing. |
| | "Those who can, teach. Those who can't, whine about teachers." ~Me |
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| naggerNZ New Zealand. March 06 2012 22:51. Posts 701 | Profile # |
I think most anti-smoking advocates and campaigns are overzealous and misinformed. I smoke, and it's a personal choice I make. I know the health risks, I know the downsides. But I enjoy it, and I find many benefits it creates that non-smokers really don't seem to understand or account for. I am very infuriated when people imply that I don't make an active and informed decision to smoke tobacco, either due to underhanded advertising from tobacco companies, or that I'm a slave to addiction. It's incredibly condescending and hypocritical as I often find I am much more informed on the facts regarding smoking than those who will tell me I should quit.
Equating either smoking or obesity to each other is to completely miss the complexity of both issues. To try and force people to change against their will on either issue is wrong and immoral. |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. March 06 2012 22:52. Posts 11828 | Profile # |
On March 06 2012 22:33 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote:
Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice.
There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Have there been any studies indicating that nicotine is more addictive than sugar or fat by the way ?
As I can't quote any science right now, suffice to say for the moment that the body requires sugar and fat to survive, it does not require nicotine.
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| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| DarkPlasmaBall United States. March 06 2012 22:55. Posts 20107 | Profile Blog # |
On March 06 2012 22:51 naggerNZ wrote:
I think most anti-smoking advocates and campaigns are overzealous and misinformed. I smoke, and it's a personal choice I make. I know the health risks, I know the downsides. But I enjoy it, and I find many benefits it creates that non-smokers really don't seem to understand or account for. I am very infuriated when people imply that I don't make an active and informed decision to smoke tobacco, either due to underhanded advertising from tobacco companies, or that I'm a slave to addiction. It's incredibly condescending and hypocritical as I often find I am much more informed on the facts regarding smoking than those who will tell me I should quit.
Equating either smoking or obesity to each other is to completely miss the complexity of both issues. To try and force people to change against their will on either issue is wrong and immoral.
Out of curiosity, what benefits does your smoking create that non-smokers don't understand or account for? |
| | "Those who can, teach. Those who can't, whine about teachers." ~Me |
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| endy China. March 06 2012 22:57. Posts 6233 | Profile Blog # |
Some insurance companies make the policy subscription more expensive if you are overweighted or smoke.
That's a good way I think, you're still free to smoke/eat in a certain extent, but it costs you more.
As a non-smoker I would be pretty pissed to know that lung cancers, diabetes etc are what make my health insurance so expensive. |
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| Vorgrim Korea (North). March 06 2012 22:58. Posts 1601 | Profile # |
Whoever did those studies must not smoke, because nicotene is way more addictive than anything else I have encountered. I pack away plenty of sugary foods, but when was the last time you heard of a person walking 6 miles at 3am to buy a candy bar? Don't confuse hunger with sugar addiction. That fatty would eat anything to hand, regardless of sugar content, and go McDs in the morning.
If ever anecdotal evidence was a valid reason for completely shutting down an argument, it is this. |
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| Tobberoth Sweden. March 06 2012 23:00. Posts 4742 | Profile # |
On March 06 2012 22:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:51 naggerNZ wrote:
I think most anti-smoking advocates and campaigns are overzealous and misinformed. I smoke, and it's a personal choice I make. I know the health risks, I know the downsides. But I enjoy it, and I find many benefits it creates that non-smokers really don't seem to understand or account for. I am very infuriated when people imply that I don't make an active and informed decision to smoke tobacco, either due to underhanded advertising from tobacco companies, or that I'm a slave to addiction. It's incredibly condescending and hypocritical as I often find I am much more informed on the facts regarding smoking than those who will tell me I should quit.
Equating either smoking or obesity to each other is to completely miss the complexity of both issues. To try and force people to change against their will on either issue is wrong and immoral.
Out of curiosity, what benefits does your smoking create that non-smokers don't understand or account for?
It tastes good. It feels good. It's can be a social thing, if you have friends who smoke.
Another thing, which makes me enjoy my smoking in parties, is that it's a good thing to break things up. Instead of constantly drinking, sweating like an ass in a room with too many people, having a prolonged conversation with someone uninteresting, you can always take a break and go out for a smoke. It's definitely nothing you must smoke to do, but it's one of the things smoking give me. |
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| naggerNZ New Zealand. March 06 2012 23:01. Posts 701 | Profile # |
On March 06 2012 22:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 22:51 naggerNZ wrote:
I think most anti-smoking advocates and campaigns are overzealous and misinformed. I smoke, and it's a personal choice I make. I know the health risks, I know the downsides. But I enjoy it, and I find many benefits it creates that non-smokers really don't seem to understand or account for. I am very infuriated when people imply that I don't make an active and informed decision to smoke tobacco, either due to underhanded advertising from tobacco companies, or that I'm a slave to addiction. It's incredibly condescending and hypocritical as I often find I am much more informed on the facts regarding smoking than those who will tell me I should quit.
Equating either smoking or obesity to each other is to completely miss the complexity of both issues. To try and force people to change against their will on either issue is wrong and immoral.
Out of curiosity, what benefits does your smoking create that non-smokers don't understand or account for?
Well, for me personally, I find it helps overcome a lot of social anxiety problems. I have difficulty interacting with people I don't know, and it can create problems in a working environment. However, I find that having a smoke with someone immediately overcomes this barrier. It acts as both an icebreaker and common ground. And given my line of work, I work with new people in stressful situations all the time (I'm a bouncer). Also, I find that it's a good excuse to take breaks. If I don't take regular smoke breaks sometimes I can work 8 hours non stop without a break in a hot, noisy bar/club. Not very good for your sanity.
Also, it's worth noting the biological effects of smoking. It's well understood that smoking releases beta-endorphins, which simulate feelings of satisfaction and accomplishment, something not everyone is lucky enough to get elsewhere.
Also, I like the taste and the buzz and it helps me get through the week.Last edit: 2012-03-06 23:03:15 |
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| Monsen Germany. March 06 2012 23:08. Posts 2026 | Profile # |
On March 06 2012 22:36 BlackJack wrote:
It's hard to "tax" obesity without either discriminating or also taxing healthy people that occasionally buy a treat. The obesity thing is a lot more complex than smoking when it comes to legislating. Smoking is very black and white - you either smoke or you don't, and we're talking about a single product in tobacco. Food is something everyone eats and there are thousands of food options. You just can't target food the same way you could target tobacco.
You could probably raise their health insurance rates. |
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