| IamNatural March 07 2012 03:06. Posts 64 | Profile # |
What are common things that indicate a 4gate is coming?
Eg; (?)
Early forward pylon
stalker zealot chrono boosted
third(fourth??) pylon missing from main base
no chrono on probes
-and obviously 4gateways.
what am i missing, and are things i listed wrong? |
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| zJayy962 March 07 2012 03:10. Posts 1313 | Profile Blog # |
| No expansion by 5:30 is a tell. |
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| RodYan United States. March 07 2012 03:11. Posts 122 | Profile # |
Small sentry count
Your opening was Gas-less
No nexus by 6min mark |
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| battyone United States. March 07 2012 03:12. Posts 180 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2012 03:06 IamNatural wrote:
What are common things that indicate a 4gate is coming?
Eg; (?)
Early forward pylon
stalker zealot chrono boosted
third(fourth??) pylon missing from main base
no chrono on probes
-and obviously 4gateways.
what am i missing, and are things i listed wrong?
Only takes 1 gas.
High chrono energy.
No robo, no expansion. |
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| Excludos Norway. March 07 2012 03:13. Posts 2175 | Profile Blog # |
Energy on nexus is usually a good indication.
Forward pylon is a dead giveaway.
Chronoboost on cybernethics core (not on zealot/stalker/sentry)
Count probes. If he stops at 20, you know he's up to something.
Only 2 pylons in base. Altough if you can see that, you should be seeing his gateway count as well..
If you see one or more of the above, an alarm should be going off in your head. But its also important not to overreact in case its not a 4gate. So a build that lets you defend it and tech/get an economic lead at the same time is the perfect choice.
4 gateways is, yes, a good indication that your opponent is thinking of 4gating.
On the things you are wrong about: Chrono on probes is somewhat wrong, as the first 2 chronoboost are always on probes. After that, thought, they're all on the core. And they don't chrono out zealots or stalkers..not if they want to be efficient anyways. Then again, I have seen some weird variations of it. |
| | "Factional balance means little when genius is at hand" - choboPEon |
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| Like a Boss March 07 2012 03:13. Posts 363 | Profile # |
| You can tell by the energy on the nexus. You need to save energy to chronoboost the wrap gate for it to have the fastest timing. |
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| Wrath98 March 07 2012 03:14. Posts 7 | Profile # |
You probably missed the biggest one which is one gas.
"stalker zealot chrono boosted" this shouldn't happen all chrono should be on WG except the first two on nexus.
Look for 1 gas, saved up chrono that is being used on WG, and zealot stalker as first two units.
I wouldn't worry about the pylons too much, 4gate wont drop one til after the gates are thrown down and 3rd stalker is being built. So you most likley won't see a 3rd/4th pylon until its at your front door. |
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| transience Belgium. March 07 2012 03:16. Posts 73 | Profile # |
Some general pointers:
- Often they will only chronoboost probe production twice and then save up energy to continually chronoboost the warp gate research. Keep an eye on the energy levels on the nexus.
- Most one base builds include a second gas around 18 supply. Keep a worker alive in their base. A Protoss only taking one gas signals a fourgate.
- Usually the Protoss will first create a zealot and then a some sentries if he's planning to sentry expand. If you scout his front and the second unit created is a stalker, expect a fourgate. |
| | Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. |
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| jonesthemad Germany. March 07 2012 03:25. Posts 11 | Profile # |
if he makes the 20 probe 4gate (most effective) you can literally see him stopping probe production because the stalker is not ready in time.
if he doesnt build probes past 20, has no gas and high cb its almost always a 4gate.Last edit: 2012-03-07 03:26:27 |
| | the device has been modified ( •_•)...........( •_•)>⌐■-■.......... (⌐■_■) |
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| Dzerzhinsky Scotland. March 07 2012 03:32. Posts 268 | Profile # |
Everything has already been said, but I'll try to simplify it down to a step by step guide.
1. Keep your SCV in their base until around 4 minutes (just before their Stalker comes out).
2. If they have 1 gas and a lot of saved up Chrono (pre-Cybercore) a 4gate is likely, so you want to prepare to prepare.
3. Send your scouting SCV back into their base at around 5 minutes, making sure to check the natural on the way.
4. If there is no Nexus you are almost definately looking at a 4gate or heavy 3gate pressure.
5. Since the Stalker will usually be out on the map poking around at this time there is a good chance that you'll get in and be able to scout what he's doing anyway.
6. The 4gate hits between 5:30 and 6 minutes, so you have plenty of time to panic, calm down and then throw up bunkers before it arrives.
There are other tells such as seeing a forward Pylon, or simply noticing that the third Pylon (usually built around 4 minutes) isn't in the main, but these are less reliable and ultimately unnecessary.Last edit: 2012-03-07 03:35:49 |
| | "All science would be superfluous if the outward appearance and the essence of things coincided directly." |
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| Excludos Norway. March 07 2012 03:38. Posts 2175 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2012 03:14 Wrath98 wrote:
You probably missed the biggest one which is one gas.
"stalker zealot chrono boosted" this shouldn't happen all chrono should be on WG except the first two on nexus.
Look for 1 gas, saved up chrono that is being used on WG, and zealot stalker as first two units.
I wouldn't worry about the pylons too much, 4gate wont drop one til after the gates are thrown down and 3rd stalker is being built. So you most likley won't see a 3rd/4th pylon until its at your front door.
The problem is that there are 4gates revolving around 2 gasses as well. Where they keep a high sentry/zealot count instead of stalkers. Altough this is mainly vs zergs. |
| | "Factional balance means little when genius is at hand" - choboPEon |
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| Sianos March 07 2012 03:44. Posts 528 | Profile # |
| Scouting a 4 Gate is very easy. Keep your SCV and spot for Gases and Energy. 1 Gas and high energy is most likely a 4 gate BUT the biggest tell is, that if the protoss didn´t build a 3rd Pylon until 4 Minutes and didn´t expand it´s like a 90% chace of a 4 Gate comming. Allways watch for that 3rd Pylon it can also indicate proxy stargate or hidden dt tech if he has 2 gas. Last edit: 2012-03-07 03:44:15 |
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| sandman1454 United States. March 07 2012 04:02. Posts 96 | Profile # |
| what match up are we talking about here? because there are different things that can be done with each race to help vs 4gate. One thing that can be done with all races is leaving a worker behind the opponents expansion and checking when he takes his expansion. Being active with your units helps spot a 4gate too, along with all the scouting info you got earlier, being active with your units can help you spot a 4gate push out, like zealot stalker probe pushes, or 2gas 4gate zealot stalker sentry probe pushes. Also if your feeling suspicious, check for pylons in your base and anywhere in dangerous places in forward positions. 4gate is good build because of instant reinforcement, and early influx of units coming onto the field, if their push gets delayed, or they have to reinforce from their base, then 4gate becomes much worse. If u spot these push outs and no expansion, then its likely a 4gate of some variation. |
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| Iridium Sweden. March 07 2012 04:05. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On March 07 2012 03:12 battyone wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 03:06 IamNatural wrote:
What are common things that indicate a 4gate is coming?
Eg; (?)
Early forward pylon
stalker zealot chrono boosted
third(fourth??) pylon missing from main base
no chrono on probes
-and obviously 4gateways.
what am i missing, and are things i listed wrong?
Only takes 1 gas. High chrono energy. No robo, no expansion.
This guy has it! |
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| niladorus Greece. March 07 2012 04:13. Posts 107 | Profile # |
And lets say that you indeed spot (as a zerg) a 4gate, and the guy simply does not attack and the P now has 2 stalkers, 1 zealot and makes 2? sentries hold idle gates and expands. so you may or may not have commited in lings, prolly metabolic boost and 2-3 spines (cause you were expecting the push.
My question is: how do you work from here? do you simply drone a lot or is there any way to punish the sneaky bastard right there?
edit:apologies if i am off topicLast edit: 2012-03-07 04:13:50 |
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| Treehead March 07 2012 04:23. Posts 998 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2012 04:13 niladorus wrote:
And lets say that you indeed spot (as a zerg) a 4gate, and the guy simply does not attack and the P now has 2 stalkers, 1 zealot and makes 2? sentries hold idle gates and expands. so you may or may not have commited in lings, prolly metabolic boost and 2-3 spines (cause you were expecting the push.
My question is: how do you work from here? do you simply drone a lot or is there any way to punish the sneaky bastard right there?
edit:apologies if i am off topic
Your question doesn't really make sense. If he builds for a 4-gate and then just... expands... then you probably just win. Seems like good punishment to me. This is kinda like saying "let's say I scout a 7-roach rush, and sat on 1 base for an additional minute building to fend off the rush - except then he cancelled the roaches and expanded instead". The build you're describing... it's not good, mainly because it has 450 minerals worth of buildings used purely for misdirection. |
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| megapants United States. March 07 2012 04:41. Posts 1112 | Profile Blog # |
know where the zealot and stalker are at all times. if they are not at home @ 4:30 then a 4-gate is possible. if they are on your side of the map before 5:00 and if a probe is accompanying them, then a 4-gate is highly likely, almost guaranteed.
this is the best way to scout for early aggression without having to actually see anything that he is building. but if you happen to scout his expo timing or even get into his main, that is just icing on the cake. |
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| IamNatural March 07 2012 05:00. Posts 64 | Profile # | |
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| zezamer Finland. March 07 2012 05:02. Posts 1805 | Profile # |
| You need to check if he has expansion. 1 gate expand and 4 gate both have high energy on nexus and 1 gas. |
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| itsMAHVELbaybee March 07 2012 05:14. Posts 223 | Profile # |
| Incorporate building a second bunker at 5 minutes if you don't spot a robo or nexus. Then if you happen to spot it while your building the second bunker just cancel it. |
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