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| iceman8711 United States. March 08 2012 23:54. Posts 14 | Profile # |
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xqDYx.jpg)
Edmund Duke Stadium (v1.2)
Made by: Walter "Iceman" DeFoor
Published on: [NA 1.2] [EU 1.1] (thanks Faya!)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vFmLr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aWI1j.jpg)
In-Game Description:
A set-piece battle high above the streets of Korhal.
Players will always spawn at cross positions. Easy to take naturals are far from thirds, necessitating travel on the dangerous streets. Control of the central Stadium will be essential for any army hoping for domination. Go through the enemy's goal for their Xel'Naga watch tower!
Introduction/Inspiration:
I have played Starcraft on and off since before Brood War, and I always loved fiddling around with the map editor. I recently got Starcraft II (I know, behind the curve) and I've been loving it. After watching far too many casts and playing a bit on the ladder, I got frustrated with the nebulous and nondescript maps. While the maps for SC2 certainly look nice, most look more like mirrored fractals rather than actual places that could exist in the bounds of the Starcraft universe.
I wanted to create a map that felt grounded in the lore (at least a token amount), and could easily be understood by both viewers and players. Creating a stadium on Korhal that was dedicated to Duke from the original SC felt like a fun route to go. I focused on creating clear visual markers throughout the map that can help viewers and players instantly understand where they are and how the map fits together. I have been working on this map for a little over a month, and I'm pretty pleased with how it's looking so far. I'm not quite done with the aesthetic tweaks, but I think the map is in a very playable state and I wanted to share.
This map always force cross positions, and your main base has a different layout depending upon which of the two sets of starting positions is randomly chosen. I figured that this would give Duke Stadium a unique trait that typically isn't found in double symmetrical (4) maps. See the balance comments below for more information.
The map is currently only published on NA and EU servers, but it is unlocked so if anybody wants to republish it on other servers they are welcome to. Please just don't claim it as your own  .
Please PM me links to any replays, I would love to see how others play on the map. Doesn't matter if you are bronze or GM, I would love to watch the game.
Pictures (Aesthetics):
+ Show Spoiler +
Data (Aesthetics):
Texture Set & Cliff Type: Korhal (Unmodified)
Lighting: Bel'Shir Sunset
Ambience: Ambience_Korhal
Pictures (Gameplay):
Openness:
+ Show Spoiler +
Rush Distances:
+ Show Spoiler +
Influence:
+ Show Spoiler +
Height Map
+ Show Spoiler +
Angled Overview
+ Show Spoiler +
Data (Gameplay)
Playable Bounds: 150x144
Number of Starting Positions: 4
Number of Bases: 14
Number of XWT's: 2
Number of Rocks: 2
Mineral/Gas Counts: All bases have 8 standard minerals and 2 standard vespene geysers
Changed Data: Lighting for the Korhal Texture Set
Further Balance Comments:
+ Show Spoiler +General Points
- 1v1 is forced cross positions, giving a 50-50 chance of either layout
- Starting position will make game go very differently due to different rush distances and expansion layout
- Close thirds can all be ambushed from LOS curtains very close to mineral line
- Tier 3 units will be important for mobility and map control, drops are viable
- Shortest distance through the stadium will encourage players to micro through slightly longer paths for strategic advantage
- Destruction of diagonal debris in the streets will lessen importance of stadium control
- All main bases have space for one building hidden behind LOS, but vulnerable to attack from third if sight is gained from low-ground
- Each Xel'Naga tower covers one of the stadium entrances, and cannot see any expos
- Streetlights will naturally split deathballs due to no-pathing, giving many opportunities to those with strong micro
- Cliffs throughout the stadium are important for map control
- Bleachers have a narrow path in the middle that allow small units to go through, forcing larger units to travel around.
2v2
- 2v2 is logically drawn 11 & 2 vs. 5 & 8, making stadium very important before rocks are destroyed
- Players at the 11 and 5 position will be more vulnerable in early game than players at 2 and 8.
2 o'clock vs. 8 o'clock
- Long rush distance (188 main to main) will make players reconsider cheese builds, give more time for defensive structures
- Breaking rocks will create an ever so slightly shorter rush distance that does not go through the stadium
- Short air-distance to thirds but long walking distance encourages air units
- More space behind main's mineral line encourages both hiding vital structures and drops to attack mineral line
- Wider ramp close to natural mining operations makes defense from pokes more difficult
5 o'clock vs. 11 o'clock
- Tal'Darim length rush distance (195 main to main)
- Third is blocked by rocks
- Stadium influence is logically split making nosebleed expansions highly contestable
- Nooks in mains encourage players to hide structures, use nydus worms, and make scouting more difficult
Race Specific
+ Show Spoiler + Zerg
- Open areas in stadium and corners at 12, 3, 6, and 9 positions provide ideal areas for engagement
- Multiple paths allow highly mobile zerg armies more avenues to get past fortified chokes and corridors
- Fewer areas toward center of the map to hide Overlords but more further out
- Nydus worms could be very useful for mobilizing army
- Longer rush distances allow Zerg chance to Macro at beginning of game
- Air control and creep coverage will be important for sustained Macro games
- Plenty of expansions to take in 1v1 if opponents are not diligent at applying pressure
Protoss
- Plenty of cliffs around stadium for Blink-Stalkers and Colossus to use for increased mobility
- Nooks and crannies abound give great places for proxy Pylons to be hidden
- Low-ground nooks at each main's choke gives crafty Protoss a fun place to do warp play with an inattentive opponent
- Corridors at stadium entrances, along streets, and at thirds are great for forcefields
- Nice choke points in stadium encourage High Templar and Archon play
Terran
- Map control will have to compensate for less mobile army
- Spacious (both around 30 CC) mains will allow for plenty of building room
- Xel'Naga towers are great spots for Seiged tanks, as are cliffs throughout the map
- Total reliance upon MMM deathball will not serve Terrans well due to multiple avenues of attack and long distances
- Chokes at entrances to the stadium are great for Bunkers but are flankable if high ground route is taken
Change Log:
v1.2
- Lowered Stadium by one level, opening ramps up to the field
- Lots and lots of spit and polish
- All mineral fields redone
- Adjusted the layouts of thirds
- Removed all cardinal ramps
+ Show Spoiler +v1.1
- First long-term stable release!
- Moved rocks to corners of map so all spawns have accessible thirds
- Lots of spit and polish for aesthetics
- Added lights to mineral patches for those on high video settings and higher
v0.12
- Replaced expo at the goals with XWT on middle ground, giving an incentive to keep enemies out of your goal
- Eliminated the 4 existing XWTs
- Remade every mineral line from scratch
- Eliminated some walls at thirds to open up the space
- Removed the rocks from the expos at 4 and 10
- Shrank the void at the thirds for 8 and 2
- Widened ramp up to stadium high grounds
- Raised goals on the field so Colossus won't no-clip through them.
v0.11
- Rotated minerals at 2 and 8's naturals
- Halved the number of street lights
- Added ramp to access Xel'Naga Watch Towers
- Eliminated pathable area on buiding at rock blocked expansion at 10 and 4
- Opened up the expansions at 10 and 4, giving a little more breathing room
- Trimmed some space from the mains, still need to take a little off of 11 and 5
- Cleaned up stadium seating and changed color to default rather than red
v0.10
- Narrowed ramps to main
- Replaced doodad streetlights with destructible streetlights
v0.9
- First Public Release
v 1.1
+ Show Spoiler +Last edit: 2012-04-04 06:08:02 |
| | Edmund Duke Stadium - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318778 |
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| iamperfection United States. March 09 2012 00:11. Posts 4833 | Profile Blog # |
I think visually it looks great.
Question though you say main ramps are strange they look a little big to me can 1 sentry wall it off?
If not in PVP you are gonna have just have 4 gate 4 gate. It seems like the ramps are diffrent just to be "diffrent" i think standard ramps would make more sense.
Also the name dosent quite roll of the tounge there. Last edit: 2012-03-09 00:12:20 |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168¤tpage=78#1551 |
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| Gl!tch United States. March 09 2012 00:16. Posts 573 | Profile # |
Realy liking this map. To be honest, I think there are too many street lights (on the outer roads). Believe it or not, they create little chokes that can be forcefield abused pretty bad (coming from a protoss). Perhaps making them 50% less, like every other one goes or something.
The stadium theme is realy sick, worried that the middle may be to open because of it, not sure though.
I do think there are too many watchtowers, something like one at each end of the field might work better, as they would view the center path/paths but not the side ones that are opend up by rocks.
Also not to sure about the mineral placements on the thirds (of the southwest and northeast bases)
Cool concept, hope it makes a cool map!
Edit: As the person above me pointed out, those 2 width ramps to the main kill PvP completely.Last edit: 2012-03-09 00:19:10 |
| | “I mean, they say you die twice. One time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on, when somebody says your name for the last time.” ― Banksy |
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| iceman8711 United States. March 09 2012 00:19. Posts 14 | Profile # |
The ramps are the same width as standard ladder ramps off the main; however, they come out of a curve rather than cropping straight out of the main. This means forcefields on the ramp should work the same as always, however wall-ins will have to be carefully placed. In play testing it has been pretty fun, and I don't want to encourage TOO much turtling, even though I am a proud Terran.
I take that all back. The ramps are doubled and will be corrected to be single wides with the next update, probably today.
As for the name, I was going to do Korhal Stadium, but it felt too generic so I opted for Edmund Duke Stadium. The Memorial part is only in the banner, mainly as a joke.
Thanks for the feedback!
*edit* corrected Edward to Edmund
*edit2* corrected my dumb false assertionLast edit: 2012-03-09 01:28:35 |
| | Edmund Duke Stadium - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318778 |
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| ihasaKAROT Netherlands. March 09 2012 00:27. Posts 3393 | Profile Blog # |
| Better yet, make the streetlights destructible! (theres already a preset doodad) |
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| iamperfection United States. March 09 2012 00:36. Posts 4833 | Profile Blog # |
On March 09 2012 00:27 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Better yet, make the streetlights destructible! (theres already a preset doodad)
That makes sense he can keep that "real" look hes going for and give the better players something to do when preparing to make or receive an attack. |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168¤tpage=78#1551 |
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| iceman8711 United States. March 09 2012 01:51. Posts 14 | Profile # |
| I have fixed the ramps (I feel so dumb) and am currently replacing the streetlights with destructible streetlights that will be slightly farther apart. I'll update the map and the pictures above tonight. Keep the suggestions coming! This is exactly what I need to hear. |
| | Edmund Duke Stadium - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318778 |
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| iamperfection United States. March 09 2012 02:00. Posts 4833 | Profile Blog # |
| Another question can you land on the other side of those collapsed highways? It looks like on the anlyzer that it is pathable and if so can a sige tank hit the natural it looks pretty far but something to look at. |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168¤tpage=78#1551 |
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| EatThePath United States. March 09 2012 02:32. Posts 2467 | Profile Blog # |
Soccer field yessssss! XD
Those 4 and 10 oclock bases with rocks are wayyyy to tight. Move/reduce the high ground obstacle and push the wall behind the minerals towards the edge more to make more room.
In fact every base on this map is very cramped. You might want to pick one set to make far more open.
The 1 and 7 oclock naturals should be rotated to hug the main cliff, that orientation is unfair for hellion harass and just looks awkward.
The streetlights might cause major problems with pathing in big engagements. I would space them out more (having less overall). Then again perhaps this could be a "feature". Not sure, hasn't been tested hard before. |
| | Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE |
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| iceman8711 United States. March 09 2012 02:35. Posts 14 | Profile # |
I have just updated to v.10. There are no-path doodads that cover the highway past the broken bridges but the analyzer didn't pick it up. I didn't go into the footprints file for it so I might need to do that. I also ran the analyzer not taking the destructible streetlights into account because they have a smaller footprint than 1x1. I'm going to put up a poll for halving the number of streetlights, I am torn on it.
If anybody does play on the map, ANYBODY, please PM me a place where I can download the replay and see how the map does. I have played with some friends, but it was fairly limited. |
| | Edmund Duke Stadium - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318778 |
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| EatThePath United States. March 09 2012 02:43. Posts 2467 | Profile Blog # |
On March 09 2012 02:35 iceman8711 wrote:
I have just updated to v.10. There are no-path doodads that cover the highway past the broken bridges but the analyzer didn't pick it up. I didn't go into the footprints file for it so I might need to do that. I also ran the analyzer not taking the destructible streetlights into account because they have a smaller footprint than 1x1. I'm going to put up a poll for halving the number of streetlights, I am torn on it.
If anybody does play on the map, ANYBODY, please PM me a place where I can download the replay and see how the map does. I have played with some friends, but it was fairly limited.
I would give it a spin but it really needs those 1ramps on the main before it'd be worth testing.
Also, could you spoiler all those extraneous analyzer images, and the screenshots too?
You just did! xD
Btw your sunken depots are on the wrong side of the ramp. They should be on the "back" side of the bottom of the ramp so you can wall from ramp to CC at the natural.
fifth edit lol:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HBcWU.jpg)
The part painted in orange with red trim. This should be a huge ramp, or a series of wide ramps, not a cliff. I thought that's how it was at first. Otherwise the towers are ridiculously secure and cramped, especially considering they guard a central base that only has two entrances. The middle is also kind of pointless as a position without access to the towers.
Also, you don't have to edit footprints or paint pathing or anything like that in order to have unobstructing doodads. Just select the ones you want and check "ignore footprint" in the properties. Obviously this would look weird when a roach apparates into and through a lamp post, so destructible/not too many is better than random no-clip.Last edit: 2012-03-09 03:11:44 |
| | Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE |
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| Vindicare605 United States. March 09 2012 04:32. Posts 6502 | Profile Blog # |
This map looks sooooooooooo sick and such a great concept too. I love it!
I'll definitely try it out and give back balance feedback when I can. Awesome work though, I'm excited. |
| | Official Caster for .SCA @KTVindicare: twitter, twitch.tv/ktvindicare: stream, ktvindicare@hotmail.com |
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| TheFish7 United States. March 09 2012 05:48. Posts 1220 | Profile # |
This map looks really awesome. great idea! I love the theme and its a very impressive map for someone who recently just got sc2.
I think it was said before, the 3rds are a bit cramped and the nearby highgrounds should be unpathable. Also agree that the middle part should have ramps down to the "field", since most early battles are going to be fought in that area, and right now the highground seems super good for terrans, although maybe I'm wrong on that.
"Number of XWT's: I don't know what this means." lol. I was also wondering about that. Could someone clarify?
EDIT: Xel Naga Watchtowers.
Also, I'd say as a Zerg player, if I were to spawn in the top left or bottom right, my third base is almost always going to be the one closer to the middle the way the map is set up now, and it would be quite easy to get up to 4 bases. I would really like this spawn in ZvP, whereas if we got the other spawn, top right and bottom left, I would be sad because it would be very hard for me to take a fast 3rd against a FFE protoss.
The fact that the spawns are set up as forced cross positions but the map doesn't have rotational symmetry means you will have to essentially balance two maps in one for 9 possible matchups, which is pretty tough to do. While I only play Zerg, and I haven't actually played on the map, I feel that at the moment in PvZ 10 v 4 oclock positions are favorable to zerg, while a ZvP in 1 oclock v 7 oclock positions is more favorable to Toss. But again, I'm not an expert and this is only my feeling at the moment. Would love to playtest it!Last edit: 2012-03-09 06:38:05 |
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| Exigaet Canada. March 09 2012 06:04. Posts 320 | Profile # |
The layout of the natural minerals at 1 and 7 is really bad..
You should turn them 90 degrees clockwise, put them up against the cliff and fix them, so they're like every other mineral field.Last edit: 2012-03-09 06:10:24 |
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| Spec Taiwan. March 09 2012 07:28. Posts 749 | Profile Blog # |
| dafaq lol. Gonna go search that Duke x Kerrigan in a tank thing again. Good to remember this man |
| | Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Ghandi |
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| clever_us United States. March 09 2012 09:47. Posts 311 | Profile Blog # |
this is hawttttttttttt
really approve of creative map ideas like this |
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| TheAmazombie United States. March 09 2012 11:43. Posts 3642 | Profile Blog # |
| I love the idea of making maps to look as if it is an actual urban area by placing something, like the field, in the middle. It is actually an interesting idea. |
| | We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin |
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| Zariel Australia. March 09 2012 12:39. Posts 958 | Profile Blog # |
| Did you know that if you switched the ramps around a bit, it will be balanced for any spawn position?? I dunno how to explain it better but give it rotational symmetry for the bases |
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| ClysmiC United States. March 09 2012 12:59. Posts 1951 | Profile Blog # |
I like the idea of having different map layouts depending on where the player spawns. The base layout is pretty good, but I think it might be a little bit to easy for Terran's to siege up and completely secure some of those really smaller-area expansions (like the one directly below the top-right main and the one's adjacent to the goals on the soccer field). I just can't imagine a Zerg player being able to break one of those if it had a planetary and a few siege tanks. Also, I hate the destructible rocks at the third. I think that is just bad map design, and it kills me that there are still popular maps that do that. The other destructible rocks are nicely placed though, I like the dynamic that they add.
That being said, the aesthetics on this map are amazing. The soccer field looks great, and so does the rest of it. It's a really neat, unique map, and I'd love to see some games played out on it.
Also, have a mod change the title of this thread to Edmund Duke's Stadium ^.^ |
| | "The LORD is close to the brokenhearted, and saves those who are crushed in spirit." -Psalm 34:18 |
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| iceman8711 United States. March 09 2012 13:19. Posts 14 | Profile # |
| Hello everybody, thank you for the excellent feedback. I have updated the map to v0.11, taking into account the most common suggestions. I'm about to update the pictures up top but the Battle.Net map is updated now. I'm going to set up a couple of polls on the items I'm torn on, but I'm really grateful for all of the interest and enthusiasm. |
| | Edmund Duke Stadium - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318778 |
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