Aperture Mafia - Page 49

Gonzaw, since you're around, do you have a specific question you want me to answer? You put me in your post but you don't say what you want from me. If you want a general read on everyone, I came in late as a replacement and I didn't have any interaction with anyone to build reads on. Also do you realize that there are 29 other people still playing this game?

Also why should Drazerk be banned? He wasn't playing against his win-con, he wins with any faction, he just needs to have another 3rd party dead first. I believe his reasoning on shooting VE as a strong player, and everything else snowballed because he claimed when he didn't have to.

Do you want the easy cases? How hard is it to point out the other lurkers and say "look at them" Dirk, Kita, CC, Sinani, etc. Do you really think putting pressure on me wouldn't be easily deflected by pointing to the other lurkers? If you compare my posts to theirs you can at least see I've contributed with longer responses then one sentence.

Here are my opinions on some controversial people:

My opinion now is that Velinath is now a huge danger to town. We now we have possible evidence from Drazerk's claims that Velinath could be a 3rd party along with his Wheatley ability. Yes Drazerk lied about many things, but he also didn't lie about other parts. What possible motive would he have to have to initiate the election for Velinath and then do a 180 and say "don't vote for him he's a 3rd party" if he didn't run his DT check and it came back great power on Velinath? So based on this, 3rd parties can win with any faction, why does Velinath have to stay town-aligned? He doesn't, and he's a item factory that we cannot control.

Foolishness is funny to read, the fact that he's doing the rhyming scheme that's not part of his roleclaim and getting points from the mods doesn't really mean anything anti-town. He's still posting things that are not hard to understand and if you read them, he was advocating not listening to Drazerk and just moving on, which is pro-town in my book (Gonzaw you even said you didn't want everyone dragging out the Drazerk issue earlier in the thread)

Regarding you Gonzaw, do you not fear for your life by being the most active poster? If you keep asking everyone questions and you are personally keeping track of everyone, why wouldn't you be the first one killed this night? Do you think scum have already found out blue roles, I don't think so. If you are town, you should back off and not present yourself as a target with your activity. If you are scum, you would just keep posting because you know you won't be a target. Do you have any response to this logic?

Is there anything else you would like me to comment on while I'm around? You aren't being very specific and I have no interest in trying to post my reads on 29 people, sorry.

Hassybaby United Kingdom. March 19 2012 09:23. Posts 8454

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I'm going to bed. The day could have gone better, but at the end of it all, 2 third-party roles died, and we now know that there are at least another 6 in the game, and the names of 3 of them. Still got a decent amount of info through the flips, even though the analysis was overshadowed by the massive bandwagon (and the way it looked, Drazerk either pants-on-head retarded that, or he was telling the truth about the change of wincon half way)

"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"

Velinath United States. March 19 2012 09:25. Posts 629

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On March 19 2012 09:15 willz22912 wrote:
My opinion now is that Velinath is now a huge danger to town. We now we have possible evidence from Drazerk's claims that Velinath could be a 3rd party along with his Wheatley ability. Yes Drazerk lied about many things, but he also didn't lie about other parts. What possible motive would he have to have to initiate the election for Velinath and then do a 180 and say "don't vote for him he's a 3rd party" if he didn't run his DT check and it came back great power on Velinath? So based on this, 3rd parties can win with any faction, why does Velinath have to stay town-aligned? He doesn't, and he's a item factory that we cannot control.

I don't know why you're trusting Drazerk on anything given that he was all over the map with his claims. He also claimed that Wiggles was not the same as he was, which would be the use of his power as well. Since from what I can tell of his role PM he could only use this once per day, at least one of those claims is false.

Mid-gold, trying to hit Plat... :(

Grackaroni United States. March 19 2012 09:32. Posts 495

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On March 19 2012 09:25 Velinath wrote:

Show nested quote +

lol, you can't compare him calling Wiggle's not the same as him, to him calling you the planar dragon.
He wouldn't have taken as much shit either if he didn't suddenly switch his view on electing you for seemingly no reason, so it's not some sort of planned out elaborate lie it seems like something he could have found out and posted without thinking of the consequences.
The only thing holding me back is this post :

On March 19 2012 06:14 Drazerk wrote:
Here is a list of people who need to die because they are scum but I distracted you all day so you never realized it -

kitaman27
gonzaw
MidnightGladius

People who you should look out for and probably have their own agenda -

Velinath
Jayjay54

People you should trust -

Kenpachi

People you should be voting for -

GlaDOS

Jayjay54 Germany. March 19 2012 09:36. Posts 2294

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On March 19 2012 09:32 Grackaroni wrote:

Show nested quote +

so why do you want to take this post into consideration? Kenpachi is to trust because he did what draz wanted. I am on the "own agenda" list, because I pushed him. He was also already anti-town frustated when he posted that.
more information = better for town. Don't hold back, just because you are afraid of dying. If everybody is active, scum won't know who to shoot...ezpz

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.

Jayjay54 Germany. March 19 2012 09:39. Posts 2294

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On March 19 2012 09:36 Jayjay54 wrote:

Show nested quote +

so why do you want to take this post into consideration? Kenpachi is to trust because he did what draz wanted. I am on the "own agenda" list, because I pushed him. He was also already anti-town frustated when he posted that.

Also will, I claim to be the most active poster right now You should never be afraid of posting when you got something to say. more information = better for town. Don't hold back, just because you are afraid of dying. If everybody is active, scum won't know who to shoot...ezpz

EBWOP WTF happened there..

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.

willz22912 United States. March 19 2012 09:40. Posts 247

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Velinath: Are you allowed to use the items you create yourself? Are you allowed to make them and give them away at the same time?

If you can't use the items you yourself make, you are at best a liability to town because how are you going to give them away to 100% confirmed town people? How would we prove this as town when you could just be giving them to scum all along either knowingly or unknowingly. Why should we not get rid of you ourselves before you give up useful items to the wrong people?

Grackaroni United States. March 19 2012 09:40. Posts 495

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On March 19 2012 09:36 Jayjay54 wrote:

Show nested quote +

My point is If he knew for sure that Velinath was the Planar dragon he probably would have put him in the need to die list rather than look out for list. My mentioning of it had nothing to do with you.
You're probably right though, he was pissed that he was getting lynched so he probably wasn't trying to help town.

Jayjay54 Germany. March 19 2012 09:43. Posts 2294

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On March 19 2012 09:40 Grackaroni wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 19 2012 09:36 Jayjay54 wrote:

On March 19 2012 09:32 Grackaroni wrote:

On March 19 2012 09:25 Velinath wrote:

I got that you weren't accusing me here. It was more to show, that he was just pissed at players and thus made this list.

This list is probably random. I believe he used the item on wiggles early on, just like he used his shot early on, and he wasn't superfriend gang. There is prolly no check on Veli, yet.

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.

Jayjay54 Germany. March 19 2012 09:44. Posts 2294

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and by item, I mean check

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.

willz22912 United States. March 19 2012 09:44. Posts 247

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Does anyone else see Wheatley's ability as a huge potential threat to town in the wrong hands? Or am I alone in this line of thinking. It seems like this game is going to revolve around items since everyone is asking for some sort of item and everyone possibly started with at least 1.

Whats with the lemons Grackaroni?

gonzaw Uruguay. March 19 2012 09:48. Posts 3087

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On March 19 2012 09:15 willz22912 wrote:

Gonzaw, since you're around, do you have a specific question you want me to answer? You put me in your post but you don't say what you want from me. If you want a general read on everyone, I came in late as a replacement and I didn't have any interaction with anyone to build reads on. Also do you realize that there are 29 other people still playing this game?

It's exactly for that reason. You came in late so you need to contribute for all those hours lost, and for all those "interactions" you couldn't have made.

Just read the thread and filters and give me your "not null" opinion on people, and give me your thoughts on Lanaia and Zephird, and anything else you find interesting.

Also why should Drazerk be banned? He wasn't playing against his win-con, he wins with any faction, he just needs to have another 3rd party dead first. I believe his reasoning on shooting VE as a strong player, and everything else snowballed because he claimed when he didn't have to.

I assumed he lost when he died.

If he couldn't get Kanti killed before being lynched, then he was going to lose.
However if what he said was true, then he would be going to lose, but tried to help another faction before dying, which wouldn't have anything to do with his win-con since he would already be going to lose.

Anyways, perhaps he can still win if he's dead, the moment Kanti dies.

However, that makes his role so easy. He can do whatever he wants, get lynched, get killed, etc; and he will win 100% of the time unless Kanti lives at endgame. That seems VERY unbalanced, so I assume he has to live to win as well (at least until Kanti dies).

Do you want the easy cases? How hard is it to point out the other lurkers and say "look at them" Dirk, Kita, CC, Sinani, etc. Do you really think putting pressure on me wouldn't be easily deflected by pointing to the other lurkers? If you compare my posts to theirs you can at least see I've contributed with longer responses then one sentence.

I'm putting pressure on everybody, not just you.
Also, since making "cases" against lurkers (at least by N1) isn't that helpful, I'd say I prefer your thoughts on the more active people

Regarding you Gonzaw, do you not fear for your life by being the most active poster? If you keep asking everyone questions and you are personally keeping track of everyone, why wouldn't you be the first one killed this night? Do you think scum have already found out blue roles, I don't think so. If you are town, you should back off and not present yourself as a target with your activity. If you are scum, you would just keep posting because you know you won't be a target. Do you have any response to this logic?

Why would I fear for my life?

Great, I'd like to play this game some more time, but if scum decide to shoot me, well, what can I do?
I won't back off and play sub-optimally just to "convince" scum not to kill me.
Also, perhaps I could get some medic protection (medics WIFOM about it), or not, so it wouldn't be too bad in the end if that happens (a scum KP would be wasted).

About Velinath (again):

First, I expect the mods to answer to Velinath about what he can reveal or not.
Just in case Velinath lies to us, I'll ask too:

Are elected roles allowed to reveal ALL information from their elected role?
Is Velinath allowed to reveal ALL information about his Wheatley role?

Second, I expect Velinath to tell us, right before the deadline, what item he will create and who he will give it too.
Then, on Day 2, I want that player to confirm that he got that exact item. This will confirm Velinath's ability, or at least part of it.

Third, I expect Velinath to follow town consensus regarding what he invents, and if the situation arises and he's under suspicion, he SHOULD repeat the same step from the second point I mentioned (i.e reveal what item he's making and who he's giving it to before the deadline).

However, I'd want you to truthfully answer us this question:

Are you really Planar Dragon?

If you are 3rd party, and depending on your win-conditions, we could make a deal with you. I see you somewhat care about this game, so I don't see you doing the retarded things Drazerk did if you were indeed 3rd party.
For instance, you give us ALL info about your role, about the Wheatly role, etc; and maybe we keep you medic-protected and try to fullfill your win condition (if it's not an anti-town one, for instance like Drazerk's one, killing another 3rd party) if you play along.

I gave Drazerk this option, and the fool refused it, so if you are 3rd party I'm giving it to you as well.
If you do not do this, and you are in fact 3rd party, you risk dying soon, considering a lot of people are doubting you already because of Drazerk's claim, and because of your powerful Wheatley abilities.

Jayjay54 Germany. March 19 2012 09:57. Posts 2294

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On March 19 2012 09:48 gonzaw wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I'm putting pressure on everybody, not just you.
Also, since making "cases" against lurkers (at least by N1) isn't that helpful, I'd say I prefer your thoughts on the more active people

hey. I understand that you don't want lurkers, but it's actually not helpful for town if many reads get public.

a) if like 5 players agree that player X is town. Player X is a priority target for scum. If you hide your townreads and only defend them if necessary, Player X is more likely to stay alive and the five players can continue to orient him.
b) scumreads may alert the scum player to do stuff. this is not usually the case, but weak scum reads should not be overdosed IMO.
c) an overall picture of reads, make it easy for scum to navigate and manipulate players into doing things.
d) scum players may buddy and generate bandwagons this way

I don't want to conceal information. But sometimes it is better to slow down.

it's kinda the same if you are a DT. You don't openly claim DT, ideally. You push the player while hiding you're ability so that scum won't now to Roleblock you.

I like how active you are and how you want to generate more discussions (again: more information = better for town), but don't just question everyone for many reads. It is, in fact, not helpfull and water down the threads actual good scum reads...

Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.

Velinath United States. March 19 2012 09:57. Posts 629

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gonzaw:
I am a Town player. I am not 3rd party or a Planar Dragon.

I will be more than happy to follow town consensus regarding the item thing. It's not exactly creating items, and I'll explain how the whole thing works once I get confirmation from mods that I can. Inventor was the easiest way to describe it in the context of the game, but as I said there's more to it.

Mid-gold, trying to hit Plat... :(

Curu Canada. March 19 2012 10:05. Posts 2759

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+ Show Spoiler +

Last edit: 2012-03-19 10:06:05

wat

gonzaw Uruguay. March 19 2012 10:07. Posts 3087

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On March 19 2012 09:57 Jayjay54 wrote:
hey. I understand that you don't want lurkers, but it's actually not helpful for town if many reads get public.

a) if like 5 players agree that player X is town. Player X is a priority target for scum. If you hide your townreads and only defend them if necessary, Player X is more likely to stay alive and the five players can continue to orient him.
b) scumreads may alert the scum player to do stuff. this is not usually the case, but weak scum reads should not be overdosed IMO.
c) an overall picture of reads, make it easy for scum to navigate and manipulate players into doing things.
d) scum players may buddy and generate bandwagons this way

I don't want to conceal information. But sometimes it is better to slow down.

it's kinda the same if you are a DT. You don't openly claim DT, ideally. You push the player while hiding you're ability so that scum won't now to Roleblock you.

I like how active you are and how you want to generate more discussions (again: more information = better for town), but don't just question everyone for many reads. It is, in fact, not helpfull and water down the threads actual good scum reads...

No, I don't want people to just give me their town reads, I just want more info from them regarding players that haven't been discussed at the moment, or at least for them to post more thoughts (could be town reads, scum reads, or other things entirely).

I already know the point of why too many town reads get scum to choose those players to target.

On another hand though, even if those "reads" are not stated publicly, scum can figure out if nobody is suspicious of said player, and can figure out if he's consider townie by most, which still makes him a target.
Also, being thought town by most makes him a target for medics as well, since they know where to look to save people.

However, I'm not asking people to state all their Town reads only, I'm just asking them to state opinions on certain players.
I don't know if they think those players are town or scum or null.
I just want people to not concentrate on a small pool of players (for instance Drazerk/Dirk/Velinath/Blazinghand and no one else), which makes it easier for scum to hide, since they just follow town consensus and are justified in not faking other reads.

Kenpachi United States. March 19 2012 10:08. Posts 9009

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It just came to my understanding that GLaDOS is the mask of the Moderators according to my role PM.

iGrok
GreyMisT
Jitsu

I'm definitely in my zone.

Kenpachi United States. March 19 2012 10:08. Posts 9009

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hahahaha man im dumb

I'm definitely in my zone.

willz22912 United States. March 19 2012 10:08. Posts 247

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For gonzaw: I have null reads at this point towards Lanaia and Zephridd based on their filters to this point. I don't see any pro-town behavior, they are mostly just sheeping other peoples thoughts (electing BH, which I also agreed/voted for). I also don't have any reason to assume they are scum at this point either.

I see Zephridd's case against paperscraps more of paperscraps acting like a noob town more than paperscraps being a real scum.

Lanaia is calling out Kenpachi who I also am concerned with, Kenpachi hasn't posted anything useful except for asking for votes for GladOs, and he traded an item to Drazerk for a vote when the GladOs vote wasn't even close to being close to majority and passing. No reason to have traded an item that early especially to a claimed 3rd party, pretty anti-town.

I already posted my opinions on the two people I find interesting, Velinath and Foolishness. I feel I have cooperated with you enough for now, I'm going to sleep.

Velinath I know you're waiting on confirmation on mods, but make sure to answer my questions as well as the others, thanks.

Velinath United States. March 19 2012 11:31. Posts 629

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Alright I have confirmation that I can release this.

The Wheatley role gives me access to the Black Market, where I can buy items (and apparently, "services" from other people with access to this) with currency. Right now, I can buy the items I've listed for you previously in the thread. I know for a fact right now that there are others with this access, but I don't know who they are or what faction they are.

I can sell items too, I think, but I'm a little hazy on that.

The way the whole "giving items" thing works is that I can buy an item and immediately have it given to a person I specify.

The Black Market is based around aliases, so if you ask me to buy a specific item and I then purchase it in the Black Market, other people with access to the Black Market will know the alias I post under (they'll be able to compare post times, etc). Please keep that in mind, if you'd like me to purchase items.

Mid-gold, trying to hit Plat... :(