 Natespank Canada. March 11 2012 04:24. Posts 448 | Profile # |
You can't try to force the success, it will happen. I tried this and it didn't work overwhelming well, though I did go from bronze to diamond in my first year of the game.
I object. I think that forcing success is the best way  |
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| fighter2_40 United States. March 11 2012 04:24. Posts 360 | Profile Blog # |
| In bodybuilding this so called 'ceilling' is called a plateau, a period of time where you hit a standstill and aren't getting results. To break a plateau, one must either commit MORE into nutrition, which is like playing more games in sc2, or change your workout into something that you aren't used to, which is like playing a style that you don't normally do. If u usually macro passively try harass + macro. If you've only played one race, try another! If you do 2 base timings every matchup, force yourself to play 3 bases and more. |
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| kcdc United States. March 11 2012 04:26. Posts 2311 | Profile Blog # |
You've probably already done this, but if you want to improve, do it one match-up at a time. Pick a really detailed guide for the match-up and practice the shit out of the build until you know every little timing. For example, I did this build (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319339) the other day and accidentally switched the order of my twilight council and my third sentry and the hold early game felt wrong. That's the kind of feel for the build you should be going for--if you make a mistake have 11 workers on gas instead of 12, you want to feel gas-starved and wonder why everything is late.
Once you have the timings down by heart, post 3 or so replays of yourself playing the build and losing in the guide thread or post it in a [H] thread. It's likely that other people will see ways for you to improve that you won't have thought of.
You can get into masters. You can certainly get into diamond. |
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| Bagi March 11 2012 04:30. Posts 5927 | Profile # |
On March 11 2012 04:14 Competent wrote:
Or I can just say everyone is a little different, but I don't sugar coat shit and I won't for someone that is asking for reasonable critique. If you don't want a straight face bold answer, then, after you.
I have to ask, do you maybe have a history of playing RTS games?
Personally, I got the game at release, but I didn't pay much attention to the beta. I was expecting to be placed into the lower leagues at start, but to my surprise I was placed into diamond and have been in the mid-high masters leagues since it was introduced. Like you, I have not played that many games of SC2 - however, I did play quite a bit of BW and WC3 for years after their release, which apparently that developed me a general RTS sense that was eventually carried over to SC2. I didn't even play any games before SC2 was released and got me into gaming again.
I think many RTS veterans take their skills for granted. I can see that new players that don't really have RTS experience might have a lot more trouble learning the ropes in SC2.
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| romelako United States. March 11 2012 04:33. Posts 370 | Profile Blog # |
| the skill ceiling is nonexistent. there is always going to be something in your game that you need to improve...unless you're flash lol. |
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| Competent United States. March 11 2012 04:33. Posts 406 | Profile # |
On March 11 2012 04:30 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 04:14 Competent wrote:
Or I can just say everyone is a little different, but I don't sugar coat shit and I won't for someone that is asking for reasonable critique. If you don't want a straight face bold answer, then, after you.
I have to ask, do you maybe have a history of playing RTS games? Personally, I got the game at release, but I didn't pay much attention to the beta. I was expecting to be placed into the lower leagues at start, but to my surprise I was placed into diamond and have been in the mid-high masters leagues since it was introduced. Like you, I have not played that many games of SC2 - however, I did play quite a bit of BW and WC3 for years after their release, which apparently that developed me a general RTS sense that was eventually carried over to SC2. I didn't even play any games before SC2 was released and got me into gaming again. I think many RTS veterans take their skills for granted. I can see that new players that don't really have RTS experience might have a lot more trouble learning the ropes in SC2.
I played Total Annihilation back in 1999 for about a year. Ever since then I have either played FPS or MMORPG. |
| | Nurrrhhh, I'm gonna be A+ by Wendsday! -Day[9] "I'm going to spread out my lings so it looks like there is more. Lots of animals do that." -CatZ |
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| mazqo Finland. March 11 2012 04:35. Posts 360 | Profile # |
On March 11 2012 04:33 romelako wrote:
the skill ceiling is nonexistent. there is always going to be something in your game that you need to improve...unless you're flash lol.
Obviously, but the problem is that you wont improve even if you try hard. |
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| Mjolnir March 11 2012 04:41. Posts 813 | Profile # |
I haven't played SC2 for about 4 weeks because I felt like I just stopped getting better. I was so frustrated that after my last game (which I won but didn't feel like I deserved too) I immediately lost interest in everything SC2 related. I have never felt that before towards anything - and certainly not so suddenly.
I think the absolute frustration of not feeling as though I've improved after playing for so long just suddenly hit me like a truck. I honestly felt stupid. Like, "what the fuck is wrong with me that I cannot solve this problem? Am I too fucking stupid to see what I'm doing wrong? Am I too stupid to adapt to different scenarios?" Despite all academic successes to the contrary, it makes me feel like an idiot.
I would like to improve my level but I don't know it's possible. I empathize with the OP. I really, really do. I hope there's a solution that we will eventually find, even if after a bit of a break.
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| unit United States. March 11 2012 04:43. Posts 2543 | Profile Blog # |
On March 11 2012 04:35 mazqo wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 04:33 romelako wrote:
the skill ceiling is nonexistent. there is always going to be something in your game that you need to improve...unless you're flash lol.
Obviously, but the problem is that you wont improve even if you try hard.
then the problem is the practice regime...each person is different so they need different practice regimes
some people need to play more games others less (aka play less theorycraft more stuff like that) each person has an optimal means of improvement usually multiple you just keep going until you hit a plateau then switch to a different regime when you start getting diminishing returns until which point you have mastered every individual skill or ability from the ground up...most people just either don't "try to improve" (aka switch to improving something other than their strengths) or don't realize their weaknesses which along with any ego can turn disastrous leaving them raging and thinking the game is broken (i wonder how many people who say the game is broken really believe it is) |
| | "It's not trying to be perfect; it's being yourself."-Liquid'NonY |  |
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| vahgar.r24 India. March 11 2012 04:47. Posts 394 | Profile # | |
| | Somethings are just worth fighting for |
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| Thent United States. March 11 2012 04:47. Posts 35 | Profile # |
| Well I think that you should take note that just because you're in the same league as you were a year ago doesn't mean that you haven't improved (albeit a bit slowly); platinum league a year ago was miles behind current-day platinum. |
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| Kich United States. March 11 2012 04:49. Posts 338 | Profile # |
On March 10 2012 12:45 wajd wrote:
So what do you do when you reach your skill ceiling? When you've tried everything to get better, meaning - watching your own replays, downloading replays, practicing every day, laddering, watching streams, watching live events, reading strategy threads, trying to seek coaching when you can't afford it, asking questions whenever you can... I mean everything. And none of it works. When you have been the same rank for a year and half. When you join a custom game, and you end up playing a master, and the game isn't even remotely close. (im a protoss plat)
When you want to be serous with this game and it just isn't happening. Do you have to just suck it up and tell yourself to give up this dream, and stop playing? Accept the fact that this game is so easy for alot of people, but I'm not one of them.
So what do you do when you reach your skill ceiling?
This sounds like a lot of silly misguided whining. In particular, "Accept the fact that this game is so easy for alot of people, but I'm not one of them." I mean it's fun to be in emo-land once in awhile, but get real, this game isn't easy for anyone. Everyone who's good got good by practicing, Starcraft isn't a natural talent, it's like, the epitome of an unnatural talent actually.
The only reason you aren't getting better is because you don't actually know what's wrong with your play. Figure that out and improve it, ignore winning, just try to be good.
You don't always get rewarded for making the right decision in a game, but the more you do it, the more you will. |
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| TheTurk United States. March 11 2012 05:28. Posts 713 | Profile # |
On March 11 2012 01:55 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 01:50 TheTurk wrote:
There is no "skill ceiling" that anyone can feasibly reach.
Even on an individual level.
Anyone has the ability to become MC or MKP if they pour years and years of hard, dedicated training and ironstead heart into this game.
Whoever told you that there is has significantly tainted your potential and esteem.
I guess all those Koreans playing for 8 hours a day for years and not even getting into Code A must not be dedicated enough. Believing in yourself is one thing, but this is just *ridiculous*.
Maybe they should play 12 hours a day?
My point is that there always exists some amount of time and effort that, when implemented into hardcore practice, will result in any given goal of skill.
This amount of required time and effort will undoubtably vary between players, from a few hours a day (Stephano) to huge 18 hour chunks (others?).
If one was so inclined, he could reach any level of play. |
| | Starcraft is a lifestyle. | |
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| DarkPlasmaBall United States. March 11 2012 05:29. Posts 19998 | Profile Blog # |
On March 10 2012 12:56 feanor1 wrote:
You play the game for fun?
Exactly what I was going to say |
| | "Those who can, teach. Those who can't, whine about teachers." ~Me |  |
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| ZjiublingZ United Arab Emirates. March 11 2012 05:31. Posts 428 | Profile # |
| From Plat to Masters usually isn't a difference of much except mechanics. Stop watching replays and VODs and streams and all that and just focus all your time on practicing. A lot of people think if they practice 2 hours a day they will improve X amount each day. It's more like, you can get THIS good when practicing 2 hours a day, and THIS good when practicing 4 hours a day, so on and so on. You have reached the point where your mechanics are holding you back. Practice more. Only use sreams/vods/replays when you don't know what to do in a certain situation. |
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| GertHeart United States. March 11 2012 05:34. Posts 599 | Profile Blog # |
Well here is an old saying. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Generally it means no mistake is acceptable and can be improved on. This is a tedious process and is boring, but once you can implement it, then it becomes enjoyable.Last edit: 2012-03-11 05:35:42 |
| | He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert |  |
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| KevinIX United States. March 11 2012 05:37. Posts 2450 | Profile # |
| If you feel like you're doing everything perfectly, maybe you can ask someone to look at your replays. A second opinion might be able to tell you where you can improve. |
| | Liquid`NonY FIGHTING!!! ~~~ Liquid`HerO FIGHTING!!! ~~~ Liquid`Sheth FIGHTING!!! |  |
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| BadgKat United States. March 11 2012 05:42. Posts 155 | Profile # |
| Try getting a practice partner or 3. Play some games off ladder doing the same thing just better each time. This has improved my play a lot. |
| | Team Emanations | EmNBadgKat | teamemanations.com | |
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| Polygamy Austria. March 11 2012 05:47. Posts 1004 | Profile # |
| If you have reached your skill ceiling go pro. Otherwise I think you are looking at this from a very narrow minded prospective. |
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| Monkeyballs25 March 11 2012 05:58. Posts 527 | Profile # |
On March 11 2012 05:28 TheTurk wrote:
This amount of required time and effort will undoubtably vary between players, from a few hours a day (Stephano) to huge 18 hour chunks (others?).
If one was so inclined, he could reach any level of play.
By the time you're talking about 18 hour practice sessions, you're talking about something practically impossible to achieve anyway. The human body can't hack something like that.
On a more realistic level, take someone who only has a few hours to practice per day because of real life issues. They'll also be subject to a cap on ladder success, which they could only surpass by doing something drastic like quitting their job. Call it their "casual skillcap" if you like. |
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