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| monitor United States. March 14 2012 08:39. Posts 2280 | Profile Blog # |
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oWyXC.jpg)
Graphics by Lefix
The MotM February competition is finished, and the judges have come to a decision. Hurrah- we're only a month late! This months entries were almost all fantastic (see what I did there?) and the judges had quite a difficult time deciding the Top 5. Through many test games, long discussions, and painful arguments, we have reached a verdict. NOT GUILTY! Err, wait...
Announcing the top 5 maps for February!
(If you missed our special awards, check out the announcement here)
Odin... sexy map and name, eh? This masterpiece "features some features" that we haven't seen before in many competitive maps. Namely, a third that is almost inaccessible by ground but is also defended by air from the main. This expansion can really promote some fast third expansions- but careful, it opens you up your natural to counter attacks and spreads your army thin.
Clever position balance and a very dynamic natural/third area. Of the games we have seen and based on the map architecture, every area of the map provides unique engagement areas with unusual highground placement. Be careful where you engage- a wrong move could stick you in a tiny choke or a wide open plain.
Awesome aesthetics, solid gameplay, and an interesting concept are all on TPW The Grid. Three pathways through the center limit players options for harassment and engaging, similar to Metalopolis' center paths. Areas like outside the natural and on the central highground can be secured for map control.
Wow! I still don't think I can even understand how this symmetry works, but it does  . There are so many different options for how players will play this map, it is truly wonderful. To quote Plexa,
This is an exceptional map once you take the time to sit down and analyse it. It isn't obvious why this map is so great upon first inspection, but as you keep looking at it you get more and more amazed. - Plexa
TPW Titanis is our most controversial top 5 pick. While it is a fairly standard layout that we have seen in the past, its proportions, aesthetics, and gameplay are very impressing. To quote Plexa, the almighty wise one, once more,
Really good map. It's Metropolis on steroids and is a way better map in my opinion. - Plexa
MotM Winter '12 will be concluded with the cast of a tournament played on these maps. Casted by the ESL crew very soon! Further details regarding the exact date will be released shortly. After this season is concluded, information on the next season will be given out. Thanks to everybody for continuing to support MotM! |
| | Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound |
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| Pocky52 United States. March 14 2012 08:52. Posts 454 | Profile # |
| Wow all of these maps look really nice! Congrats to the makers, look forward to seeing these maps in play and future works! |
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| Phried Canada. March 14 2012 08:58. Posts 147 | Profile # |
Yay!
I have to be honest, I really like The Grid. The aesthetics, the layout, everything is just really cool. Gratz to the winners. |
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| ManicMarine Australia. March 14 2012 09:24. Posts 317 | Profile # |
| Holy shit Rusty Cage looks awesome, would love to play on it. I also think it would be interesting to play on Sidewinder; it's such a large map though so I'm not sure how well I'll be able to play on it as Terran. |
| | Manic by name, Manic by nature. |
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| Antares777 United States. March 14 2012 09:26. Posts 1648 | Profile # | |
| | Life for you's been less than kind, so take a number stand in line, we've all been sorry we've all been hurt, but how we survive is what makes us who we are. |
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| chuky500 France. March 14 2012 10:06. Posts 379 | Profile Blog # |
There are not enough Protoss in the jury. Sorry but I'm not convinced by the argument that having an "almost inaccessible" third expansion is a good thing. PvZ on Rusty Cage will be a probe slaughter. And Odin has the same faults as Arid Plateau the Blizzard map that's only stayed for 1 season in the ladder.
But this week when I read Plexa and Monitor saying you weren't far behind if you lost your main to a cannon rush it kind of opened my eyes and clearly our opinions diverge.Last edit: 2012-03-14 10:10:23 |
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| monitor United States. March 14 2012 10:15. Posts 2280 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 10:06 chuky500 wrote:
There are not enough Protoss in the jury. PvZ on Rusty Cage will be a probe slaughter. Sorry but I'm not convinced by the argument that having an "almost inaccessible" third expansion is a good thing. And Odin has the same faults as Arid Plateau the Blizzard map that's only stayed for 1 season in the ladder.
But this week when I read Plexa and Monitor saying you weren't far behind if you lost your main to a cannon rush it kind of opened my eyes and clearly our opinions diverge.
Luckily balance is only one of the many things we look at when judging. Any map can be balanced through a series of updates. And I mean any map- it's just a question of how drastic something needs to be changed. What we're looking for is new concepts, good proportions, well thought-out layout, and uniqueness to the gameplay and expansion layout. However I do agree that Rusty Cage's third expansion is a little bit too far from the natural. It isn't game breaking in my opinion though- no other maps would be better in its place anyway.
What do you mean by "the same faults as Arid Plateau"? Maybe you meant that the natural can't be walled off at one choke? Actually that was not the only problem on Arid- it had a wide open middle, difficult third, and gold expos. Anyhow, the natural on Odin can still be forge FE'd because of the ramp/nexus position, so the natural isn't a big issue.
Taking something out of context as a cheap shot trying to make us look stupid is not the coolest thing you could have done to say we disagree... but yes, I still believe that on Daybreak, you can expand when being cannon rushed and come back into the game. I have seen many players do it including Sase.Last edit: 2012-03-14 10:16:08 |
| | Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound |
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 Plexa Administrator March 14 2012 10:16. | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 10:06 chuky500 wrote:
There are not enough Protoss in the jury. Sorry but I'm not convinced by the argument that having an "almost inaccessible" third expansion is a good thing. PvZ on Rusty Cage will be a probe slaughter. And Odin has the same faults as Arid Plateau the Blizzard map that's only stayed for 1 season in the ladder.
But this week when I read Plexa and Monitor saying you weren't far behind if you lost your main to a cannon rush it kind of opened my eyes and clearly our opinions diverge.
You do realise I am a masters protoss player right? If you consider any two positions on rusty protoss has a possible third. The map is sufficiently choked and the paths sufficiently long for a protoss to be able to defend a third from Zerg. What if they go mutalisk? Well that is a problem on any map, but with 4 possible third locations a good position can be found. |
| | ~ Spirit will set you free ~ | |
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| Xaldarian Netherlands. March 14 2012 11:04. Posts 65 | Profile # |
| Awesome maps. thx plexa for being so awesome! Might there come anymore of your great guides in the not so distant future? |
| | Those who lived in darkness have seen a great light |
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| SidianTheBard United States. March 14 2012 11:10. Posts 971 | Profile # |
Congrats guys. About time these results come around! Give me feedback on my entries! PM me, stat!
I'll probably type out my thoughts about these 5 maps a little later tonight when I get some extra free time but until then, congrats again to the winners. :DLast edit: 2012-03-14 11:11:15 |
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| SigmaFiE United States. March 14 2012 11:19. Posts 288 | Profile Blog # |
Great choices! I'm excited to try The Grid and Odin in particular.
As a followup: I am not disagreeing with the judging, looking at all the submissions going into it, it was obvious just how strong the competition for this series was. I do have a couple questions though.
1) Will any of the judges be taking time, as they did for last month's (January 2012) competition, to write to submitters about the critiques of their maps if a mapper asks for those?
and
2) I'll start with my observation, and that is that all the maps chosen were created by mappers that are on mapping teams. I know a similar case could have been made for last month as well. I do not dispute the quality of these maps, as they are all very good. But I would like to ask would the MotM panel would consider a non-affiliated "bracket" for us mappers who are not on teams or do not have access to teams?
The reason I ask is because I personally feel like teams have a unique characteristic of easy access to persons for critiques and test games, which puts non-team affiliated mappers at a distinct and almost automatic disadvantage. I know that this may or may not be possible, but I think some discussion on this particular matter may be warranted. Furthermore I think the community of mappers is increasing as of late, and doing this will hopefully motivate non-affiliated mappers to continue without being discouraged by not placing in one of these competitions. |
| | Dream Forge Maps -- http://dreamforgemaps.net/ -- admin@dreamforgemaps.net -- Team Leader -- Twitter: @SigmaFiE | |
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| Otolia France. March 14 2012 11:38. Posts 3062 | Profile Blog # |
I'm looking forward to see more TPW maps in competitions. I know the ESV one pretty well now and I can name them just from the layout (very handy when you are live-updating the LP) but the TPW ... it's still hard.
Just have a look at the map of last year :  MotM_2. None of these would make the cut right now and it shows the awesome progression achieved by the map making community on TL. Now if we could really have regular MotM tournament ^^ |
| | Fantasy ProLeague Blogger -> http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=392231 | |
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| RumbleBadger March 14 2012 11:42. Posts 322 | Profile # |
Some really nice maps.
Also I kind of agree with Sigma on point 2. Even just a quick top 1, 2, or 3 list of non-team maps (could vary by month, basically like an "honorable mention" for non-team maps) would help get a mappers name out there. Of course the top 5 is still the main competition, but might be fun to try.
Thanks for all the hard work you guys put into this! It looks great. |
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| NewSunshine United States. March 14 2012 11:50. Posts 1017 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 11:19 SigmaFiE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Great choices! I'm excited to try The Grid and Odin in particular.
As a followup: I am not disagreeing with the judging, looking at all the submissions going into it, it was obvious just how strong the competition for this series was. I do have a couple questions though.
1) Will any of the judges be taking time, as they did for last month's (January 2012) competition, to write to submitters about the critiques of their maps if a mapper asks for those?
and
2) I'll start with my observation, and that is that all the maps chosen were created by mappers that are on mapping teams. I know a similar case could have been made for last month as well. I do not dispute the quality of these maps, as they are all very good. But I would like to ask would the MotM panel would consider a non-affiliated "bracket" for us mappers who are not on teams or do not have access to teams?
The reason I ask is because I personally feel like teams have a unique characteristic of easy access to persons for critiques and test games, which puts non-team affiliated mappers at a distinct and almost automatic disadvantage. I know that this may or may not be possible, but I think some discussion on this particular matter may be warranted. Furthermore I think the community of mappers is increasing as of late, and doing this will hopefully motivate non-affiliated mappers to continue without being discouraged by not placing in one of these competitions.
I think I'd like to second everything said above. The second notion, of a non-team selection, seems like an interesting one, and would be cool to see alongside the main winners. Such a thing would give a bit of insight into what our up-and-coming mappers are coming up with. Also, if somebody(like me) put a lot of detail into a map that turns out good, but doesn't stand out like a team map, it's a bit discouraging to have it fall flat. Something like this would give those more successful "independent" mappers a bit of a morale boost - something I will straight up say is really helpful. I know there are quite a few good mappers out there who aren't quite on a team yet, almost like players who can't quite break into the GM league.
Also, some insightful feedback into our entries - what you as the judges thought, and why they didn't make the cut - would be very much appreciated. Hopefully this is something for which time can be made, for reflection, and for advice.Last edit: 2012-03-14 11:51:00 |
| | [ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine] |
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| chuky500 France. March 14 2012 11:55. Posts 379 | Profile Blog # |
Arid Plateau's problem was that it was too hard to defend your natural because of the backdoor and the line of sight blockers. Players never took the 3rd expansion because games never went this far, let alone gold bases.
Talking about a cheap shot Monitor I'll just remind you that I recieved the Rick Astley award in last month's contest, that wasn't so cool either.
About Rusty Cage I can't say I was convinced by arguments like "as you keep looking at it you get more and more amazed". I stared at the map and all I saw was that on close position your path to the opponent is a straight line. And the layout of the 3rd when on close spawns is too different to be fair. You may like choked map because it fits your style but it limits the variety of gameplays you'll have on the map. In PvP I don't see players going another tech than colossus because it's so easy retreat them with all those cliffs.In PvZ you can place forcefields early in the game but what will you do in the late game against brood lords ?
Like SigmaFiE I think what would help the community would be a tournament where mappers could get feedback and try new things. The same people and teams win every month and since Motm is a very confidential tournament I think it should aim at helping the community first, rather than promoting ESV and TPW maps. |
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| monitor United States. March 14 2012 12:16. Posts 2280 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 11:55 chuky500 wrote:
Arid Plateau's problem was that it was too hard to defend your natural because of the backdoor and the line of sight blockers. Players never took the 3rd expansion because games never went this far, let alone gold bases.
Talking about a cheap shot Monitor I'll just remind you that I recieved the Rick Astley award in last month's contest, that wasn't so cool either.
About Rusty Cage I can't say I was convinced by arguments like "as you keep looking at it you get more and more amazed". I stared at the map and all I saw was that on close position your path to the opponent is a straight line. And the layout of the 3rd when on close spawns is too different to be fair. You may like choked map because it fits your style but it limits the variety of gameplays you'll have on the map. In PvP I don't see players going another tech than colossus because it's so easy retreat them with all those cliffs.In PvZ you can place forcefields early in the game but what will you do in the late game against brood lords ?
Like SigmaFiE I think what would help the community would be a tournament where mappers could get feedback and try new things. The same people and teams win every month and since Motm is a very confidential tournament I think it should aim at helping the community first, rather than promoting ESV and TPW maps.
Sorry about the Rick Atsley award, that wasn't my doing (nor did I know about it until after it was posted) 
About a bracket for maps made by independent mapmakers, I love that idea! I'll talk to the others about it, because I think it could be really beneficial. Thanks for the suggestion. |
| | Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound |
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| SigmaFiE United States. March 14 2012 12:44. Posts 288 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 12:16 monitor wrote:
About a bracket for maps made by independent mapmakers, I love that idea! I'll talk to the others about it, because I think it could be really beneficial. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am glad the concept is well received. Thank you for your graciousness. |
| | Dream Forge Maps -- http://dreamforgemaps.net/ -- admin@dreamforgemaps.net -- Team Leader -- Twitter: @SigmaFiE | |
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| SidianTheBard United States. March 14 2012 12:59. Posts 971 | Profile # |
Since I just love throwing my feedback out on maps that win the MoTM tournaments here are my thoughts about the maps and why I like or dislike them. Please don't hate me for posting my thoughts either. I only say what I say because I love this mapping community. :D
Odin:
I like this map and I love the way the natural is setup, with the "hidden" back-alley that will allow some run-bys. Also I think the 3rd is very creative. I think the paragraph you say about it is kind of false though. You say the "safer" third opens up your natural to counter attacks and spreads your army thin is a lie. It's much safer to expand there and as long as you wall off the "hidden" back-alley, you can park your main army right outside your natural which is about a 2 second walk to the ramp at that third. If anything, expanding to the north for your 3rd is much worse for terran & protoss and would spread your army out much thinner then expanding forward.I worry about terrans getting a pfort on the half base. Take a look at daybreak and when Terran are able to get a pfort on the half base they can basically take control of the map. Daybreak also has easier ways to maneuver around the 1/2 base. This map, if a terran gets a pfort up with a couple tanks next to it, good luck ever breaking it with a ground army.
Overall though, It's a good choice for a winning map. It'll play out in a unique way and it'll be interesting to watch.
Sidewinder:
At first glance through out this map I didn't like it at all. I thought the setup was too gimmicky & that there was too much positional imbalances. Yet after looking over it more and more I'm starting to like it that much better. Main & Natural are perfectly setup, then you have your option of a 3rd. I think a really neat feature is the choke right out from your natural that appears to take about 2 3x3 buildings to wall off. You could easily wall off there and take the 3rd, bringing your army to the high ground to easily defend your third, but then be vulnerable to air harass.
My biggest concern is the amount of chokes. (Although I have yet to play on the map so it could just be the overview playing tricks on me) but it feels that everywhere on the map is super choked off that a 200 supply terran or protoss army will just absolutely crush anything zerg related unless they can get Brood lords out or can mass mutas up. It seems that you just can't be "caught out of place" on this map because there is always corners or cliffs to back yourself into.
Also it's worrisome about how close by air you'll be if you spawn in close positions and if they take the high ground third.
Cross positions on this map will be godlike. Close positions, while still good, might be a little boring/imbalanced depending on which race spawns where.
The Grid:
Not much to say about this map besides I love it. The Main, Nat, 3rd & 4th has a similar layout to my most recent map which makes for very interesting game play. Although I do feel that the bases in the corners could be a little difficult to hold since the areas in-front of it are so wide open. Although, this can be a good thing because by the time you are taking those bases it's going to be base #5 or 6 anyway. I wish I could go more in depth to this map but I think that it is by far the best map out of the bunch and with that, there just isn't much to critique about it.
Definitely deserves the #1 spot for the month.
Rusty Cage:
"Hey Johanaz, are you going to submit a map for MoTM?"
"Yes I am! Although I'm worried because I don't think it's that good."
"No worries, we won't even look at it but still give you a winning spot!"
It seems that Johanaz can submit a map and it wins even though, in my opinion, the gameplay isn't going to be that great. But it doesn't matter because:
A) It's Johanaz
B) It's Pretty and
C) It's Johanaz
Did I also mention that it's pretty?
Let me start off by saying the 4 bases in the middle are almost never going to get used. They are too close to your opponent. These are meant to be your 4th base but you're much better off taking the natural of another base so then you get a "free" 5th in the other main. The only way they will ever get used is once again by a terran that can get a pfort up and a couple of tanks and that's only because of how choked off it is. Protoss are never going to get off 2 base on this map, terran will have a tough time as well. (against zerg that is).
I do like the middle and the watchtower placement. I do like the main & natural setups. I think Close & Cross positions will definitely say who wins. Close positions the zerg loses, cross positions the zerg wins. Natural to natural in close positions looks like what, steppes of war rush distance, yet cross positions the rush distance seems long enough that most 2 base pressure will be easily thwarted, yet as I've said, 3rds are tough to take, which only favors the zerg that much more.
Titanis:
I really question the judges on the reasons why they picked this map. I'm wondering if they are trolling us or something. They spend well over a month playing over maps and the 5th winning map is Metropolis Clone 2.0. The 4 middle bases are useless and would only be used by Terran, yet Terran are still better off taking their 5 bases along the edges of the map. Only reason I could see a forward third being taken is if the Terran is going to all-in on 3 base and has no plan for expanding again. Protoss will never take it and Zerg don't want to be expanding towards their opponent so once again they'll be forced to take those bases as their 6th or 7th.
The natural is less secure then Metropolis but the 3rd is easier to defend since it's on high ground. The middle is so wide open that we can expect to see many base trades on this map if both armies push out at the same time. Especially since you can move thru the middle without being in range of the watchtowers. Think of all the bigger maps where watchtowers can see almost everything in the middle and look at all the base trades we still see because both armies are pushed across the map.
I just completely don't understand the reason for picking up Metropolis 2.0. Aren't we already seeing enough of that map? And yes, this map isn't going to play out any different. I'd like to know why Plexa feels this is Metropolis on steroids because Honestly I just feel it's a sub-par version of it. No hard feelings toward Lefix at all because he can make amazing maps (Odyssey, Vulture) but because Metropolis is already popular, why do we need a clone of it?
Again, it's just feedback. So take it as you will. I just like to throw out my opinions for the TL community to read! Congratulations again to the 5 winners & I'll definitely be looking forward to the casted tournaments. (Although, once again Monitor says that'll be announced soon...so I assume that means it'll be casted in about 3 months....) <3Last edit: 2012-03-14 13:22:19 |
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| Archvil3 Denmark. March 14 2012 13:29. Posts 968 | Profile # |
Odin - best map ever imo. yea I have a crush on this map lol.
Sidewinder - looks like a rock solid 4p and we dont see enough of those.
The Grid. *sheds a tear* I finally made it *sniff*
Rusty Cage. A map where a far third may be balanced even for toss? How can that be. Looking forward to see it play in the tournament.
Titanis. Metropolis 2.0? NO, Titanis came first! It is an old map by now and a surprising choise.
BTW was ESV Serpent Sands not submitted or did it just not make it? It is one my favorite maps recently. |
| | Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent. |
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| wrl United States. March 14 2012 14:31. Posts 205 | Profile # |
Rofl <3 Archy. High five to my TPW bros, I'm really excited because I think all of these maps will have some really interesting games.
As far as Sidewinder, grebliv in my opinion might be my favorite mapper ever, but while at first I had difficulty figuring out why sidewinder was any good, I think Grebliv has found a very fine thread on which to balance the map on and succeeded. Visually I want more, but I think the gameplay will shine. |
| | It's funny; I dream a lot, but I'm not a very good sleeper. |
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