i think when zerg really utilize their micro abilities to their max potential(DRGx2) then there armies will be way better..
still.. funny this poll just came up after months of protoss being absolutely turd - 2 months of p as the strongest and EVERYONE no matter how RETARDED the matchups were just say that protoss is easiest blah blah etc.
Last edit: 2012-03-15 18:46:27
EmperorKira United Kingdom. March 15 2012 18:30. Posts 107
not only P is the most broken race but it's also the most boring to watch. it's ridiculously easy to play P at mid-high level and the imbalance is clear and confirmed at pro level (especially in PvZ, mostly unwinable for Z)
Hm ZvP is my best matchup. (Plat-Dia Level) That's why I voted Terran as it seems to me like you can only win against T when they are doing MAJOR mistakes. It's also the most forgiving race, as they can comeback from so many bad spots with turteling with SiegeTanks and Mules. So it's maybe: T>Z>P>T (atleast for me)
NL.Anonymous Netherlands. March 15 2012 19:21. Posts 50
Definately like to say that Protoss is "the most strongest". The 2 base plays that they can pull of are incredibly strong (pointing to the PvZ MU) and especially in the lower brackets there aren't many people that can't handle the 2base play. Also MC proved that a 2base protoss can be pure cruel on "Top notch" lvl, so my vote goes to Protoss.
Then on the other hand I like to say that I think the game is kinda balanced at this point and I don't think there isn't a way to balance it more without adjusting the game big time. :-)
Follow me on twitch.tv/gfwarbringer! Offering free Zerg Coaching, check my Coach Thread! :)
I think Zerg ultimately has the highest potential, but at the moment Protoss is on top. Mostly it's due to more Protoss players developing stronger early timings or learning how to turtle into lategame super armies that take significantly less skill to get the most out of compared to their Terran and Zerg counterparts. Coming into SC2 as a Protoss player from BW, I've always been super disappointed at how badly designed the race is. I still remember how dumbfounded I was when I first got the game and made some colossi. I can't believe it's still in the game.
"In SC1, Dragoons were mentally retarded but SC2 stalkers are geniuses." -Woongjin_Flying
On March 15 2012 18:33 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote: not only P is the most broken race but it's also the most boring to watch. it's ridiculously easy to play P at mid-high level and the imbalance is clear and confirmed at pro level (especially in PvZ, mostly unwinable for Z)
and the poll will pick P.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
LunaSea Luxembourg. March 15 2012 22:33. Posts 367
On March 14 2012 22:23 LunaSea wrote: I voted for Protoss because from the many tournaments and streams I watched recently, I think that they're a the race with the most unit abilities which can't be avoided with skill (what I mean is that if your in a donut forcefield you can be MMA or mister #100 Bronze player it doesn't change much) :
And I'm not even talking of combinations of abilities that are very powerfull for Protoss :
- Archon toilet (most of the time a game changer) - Forcfield behind your units + Storms (High Templar) - (Push with Sentrys forcefielding the ramp to your main base)
Other races have some good abilities too, but generally I feel that they are easier to "dodge" or mitigate (besides juking a bit to make the Protoss fail his first forcefields, which really doesn't matter in late game). For example : "Fungal Growth is awesome for Zergs but in big battles you nearly have to sacrifice your Infestor everytime you want to get in range (Colossi, Storm, Siege Tanks ...etc.)".
In my opinion spells like Fungal, Vortex, Phoenix auto-attack and Forcefields should be redesigned to make them reflect the two players's skill more.
Just my two cents here.
I'll be happy to rebuttle:
-FF's : Force sentry energy to be spent early and often = rendered useless no matter what race and too gas heavy to be rebuilt -Vortex: Mothership is SLOWW fall back and reposition many smaller groups of units in order to minimize toilet losses -Pheonix: c'mon really??? They are so freaking fragile that a slight micro misstep and their dead... you try doing that without auto-attack -High Templar: again splitting is key and hitting snipes as terran or a couple unit hit squads for templar outta place as zerg are both effective counters
The only unit I could truly say is difficult to deal with is colossus and it kinda surprises me you didn't really mention them seeing as every race has to go out of their way tech wise to really counter them and the toss player can tech switch fairly easily while your left with useless supply (vikings expecially, corruptors not so much). I think a lot of players find the things you mentioned difficult because army splitting is not the metagame for toss although it SHOULD be. IF you attack head on into a maxed protoss, which you should be trading effectively in order to avoid maxed encounters, but say you let them get maxed and a-move into them with your less expensive maxed army... You should lose. The units are obviously stronger due to capital spent on them. Protoss is also a very ability-centric race and if you let them utilize abilities on a big ball of units you will undoubtedly get crushed, A protoss rarely ever splits his "deathball" so if you can attack from 5+ directions on favorable terrain and micro your groups of units out of AoE threats; with a good composition you should win.
To sum it up, engagements from every side with smaller groups of units would be better against a protoss because your limiting the AoE threat of the race in general. Storms even if landed perfectly only have a damage potential of x amount of units instead of a moneystorm on a larger majority of your units leaving them severly weakened / dead. Same with vortex, if a toss is resorting to this he is thinking he probably cannot engage you straight up without both you and him trading armies, or worse just outright losing horribly. Split units to minimize damage potential of vortexs and you stand a better chance of winning an engagement and possibly the game. FF's you force them to spend on a "fake engagement" losing a few zerglings to do so is more than worth it.
- For the Force Fields look at this : Look at how many FF's MC placed down and this isn't even late game (they have roughly 130 supply so probably around 10-15 minutes). It's arguable that morrow should've forced MC to waste some Force Fields but never that many. The Tyler clip is like this too :
- Even if the Mothership is slow (not as slow as before but still) Broodlords are also very slow and since they are the core of the Zerg army in ZvP lategame you can't do much about it. -->
- The best example of Phoenix auto-attack would be the first game (not sure about this) of White'Ra vs Stephano 5K $ showmatch in IPL.
- I didn't complain about Archons just saying that the combination of Archons and Vortex (Archon Toilet) is too powerfull. Same for Force Fields + Storms ...etc.
- Another example of Vortex would be the first game of Grubby vs. White'Ra (PvP) at IEM WC. Like the commentators said Grubby was 3 steps ahead but in the late game Grubby had no Mothership = instantloss because his collossi got vortexed.
- Collossi are less of a problem if you don't have that many "traps" like FF's. You can deal effectively with a correct amount of collossi with corruptors and vikings.
Last edit: 2012-03-15 22:37:19
"Your f*cking wrong, but I respect your opinion" --Day
Game is pretty balanced now actually, Zerg just lacks another top player besides DRG.
Protoss used to be weaker but are now up there with the Terrans, and MC shows perfectly how to use the race to its limits.
Terrans pretty much are still very strong, but MVP is injured and MMA not consistent enough these days.
Polt and MKP make up for those two though.
1) Protoss & Terrans (its a draw really) 3) Zerg (only very slightly behind in terms of success - maybe the Addon will make them the overpowered race, but hey right now Korea at least got current GSL champ DRG and Europe got Stephano, two very successful players for sure)
No need to cry about imba here, its all good. If you cant beat a certain matchup, you are not good enough and need to practice more.
I could say zerg imba! because i lose most amount games in that matchup. But it's not the case. I could have played better. More than 99% voting in that poll are way below level where they couldn't play any better. Bah I think even pros are.
So for me the poll is totally pointless, due to the fact people voting have no competence in judging the topic. Let the statistics say, especially among the pro games.
tokinho United States. March 16 2012 00:31. Posts 122
Even though it's been stated many times already, I think it's quite comical that Protoss has ONE good season in GSL after being an utter joke for about 8 months, and the vast majority of the community cries "IMBA, IMBA, IMBAAAAAAA!!!!!" Get a grip people. There's this thing called the meta-game. It is not a constant. It changes, and as it changes different races do better. How could Protoss suddenly be IMBA when no major balance changes occured (remember they started doing well BEFORE the new patch)? What caused the Protoss come-back was a combination of new understandings of the game, meta-game changes, and an emergence of new incredibly talented players (such as Parting) breaking into the scene that just happened to be Protoss users. While it may look like Zerg is underrepresented in Code S, just look at the skill of the Zerg users there. The ones that are in Code S are the only ones truly deserving of being there. It's just a fact that there aren't as many highly-talented Zerg players out there right now. Please take a step back and look at what actually is happening rather than just giving knee-jerk reactions to a race having a good season.
Take the Violet vs MC game at IEM on Dual Sight. Violet did everything you could against it but it wasnt good enough because MC has forcefields, and when you have force fields you can dictate how much of the army you go up against and in that case Violet had nothing else to do but to sacrifice his 3rd because he wasnt able to engage MC army. Forcefields at least in ZvP are the most evident form of imba. When zerg's only long ranged unit is a hydralysk, which we could all admit are pretty useless unless your hitting a protoss before they have colossus, When most of Zergs ground units are between the range of 1 - 4 and most of protoss units have at least a range of 5-6 minus zealots of course, it makes it even harder on Zerg players to engage a protoss with forcefields. In TvP I believe it is balanced up until the Protoss has Storm, but when Storm hits and you are not the greatest micro player, you are pretty much screwed over because generally when a Terran goes up against Protoss they play bio, but when Terran units used when they play bio only have between 55 and a 125 HP and a storm hits which deals 80 damage over 4 game seconds which is like 3 and a half seconds or so, there goes most of your Bio force while Protoss still has all of their ground units basically untouched.
Colossus could also be brought up but since they can not attack air I feel like thats an argument that I'm not going to have a good response too if someone questions it. But imo I feel like those are the only balancing issues with the game. You could either reduce the damage done by Storm, which in my opinon should be the same as every other casting unit that the other races have to offer, ex. infestor or ghost, or you could increase the amount of energy forcefields take up to like 50. Those would be the only changes I feel that would make the game truly balanced.
Btw, infestors fungal growth deals 30 damage(40 to armored) and Ghost emp deals 100 damage to shielded units or energy units. Following the same logic though you would say that Ghost's emp should be nerfed but when Protoss have shields that can regenerate at an alarming rate and actually dont deal any physical damage to the unit so it is basically a nonkilling cast, which is unique to the other casting attacks. That why I believe they have it deal as much damage as it does.
Just putting my 2 cents in. I feel like this is a fairly accurate description of the imba in the game today