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| scDeluX Canada. March 14 2012 23:36. Posts 1246 | Profile Blog # |
| Riot throwing all that money in esports seems to pay off |
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 TheYango United States. March 14 2012 23:36. Posts 15704 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:28 Capped wrote:
But the only major differences in HoN/Dota is 1) Creep denies. 2) Loss of gold on death. 1 adds another element to skillful play i agree, yet still not good for spectating. 2 just makes it less forgiving and makes it snowball even more quickly with games lasting longer and faster snowballing, games have the potential to be very boring.
You need to educate yourself if you believe that these are the only differences between DotA and LoL, or if you believe that LoL is less snowball-y than DotA.
As much as I dislike the misguided preconceptions that people have made about LoL in this thread, you're doing the same thing.Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:37:59 |
| | Tongfu icon until xiao8's back on a ganker role. |
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| Bart Hurt Singapore. March 14 2012 23:36. Posts 25 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:28 MulletMurdoc wrote:what is this shit???? LoL. are you fking kidding me.... whats next, Mario cart? I always considered LoL to be like womans football of the E-sport scene get off my lawn.. fucking kids 
ogn has a kart rider proleague |
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| jpak United States. March 14 2012 23:36. Posts 3638 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 23:33 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:29 .Sic. wrote:
Kotaku fails, it says 200,000 dollars in the original article
Is this true? -_-"
Yes. Fail at conversion.
Here's the list of official Kespa games. Guess what? LoL is on there.
Kespa Official Game list.Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:37:05 |
| | CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL! I am not jpak of jpak and friends, so stop asking me please. |
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 bokeevboke Singapore. March 14 2012 23:36. Posts 1552 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 23:12 Xcobidoo wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:05 BluzMan wrote:
Geez, I'm so unhappy with the way this discussion is going. People try to use strange words like "skill ceiling" (that effectively should mean that you can't get better. Well wtf, there's no such thing) or LoL being "easier" than SC2. Wtf is that, really? It's equally hard to be good at anything provided there's competition. If winning at LoL takes you 6 hours of training per day, it only means that there's noone who practices 10 hours yet.
It's not about being easy or hard. SC2 is not easy compared to SC, SC2 is bad compared to SC. The only thing about those two games is that SC is much more fun to play and watch. And shit like MBS, automine or whatever other 'killer feature' don't mean anything, it's just the badly designed units, badly implemented pathfinding and a bad storyline stripped of 2/3 of the game's races to get more money with "expansions" that never saw the light of day. That in turn limits the influx of new players etc.
LoL's immense playerbase and recent growth proves that it's fun. It's more fun than SC2 to play and recently with the increase of the average skill level among top players it's become rather fun to watch. It's a better game. And please throw away all that bullshit about easiness. V are people wharious activities may have different entry levels (the amount of effort required to feel generally in control), but pushing anything to it's limit is equally hard. Just because pushing something to the limit means working as hard as possible. Progamerso push games to their limits, that easy. And, if anything, a low entry level is a good thing for the game, not bad, because it attracts audiences. Bitching about that is nothing but arrogance.
When it comes to player base, you can't compare a f2p-game with one that costs like 40-50 euro. Ofc there's not a "skill ceiling" if you dumb it down, you can always micro just a bit better or macro just a tiny bit better. The skill ceiling more refers to the fact that if player X practices for 2 hours/day and player Y practices for 8 hours/day and they are still comparable in skill (provided they have the same potential regarding RTS-games) then yes, there is a pretty low skill ceiling. Consider Quake where a 75-80% hit rate with railgun is considered amazing, the fact that there is still 20-25% to improve on there means that the skill ceiling is high.
I understand that you're saying that its easier to hit skill-ceiling in LoL, when you're somewhat equal to other top-players. But I think you're forgetting 5v5 aspect of the game, there is more depth than you think. You can carry like 20/5/20 but your team still loses. Reasons might be bad pick, misunderstanding, or simply the fact that their support (say 0/8/25) contributed more than you as a carry. |
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| GreEny K Germany. March 14 2012 23:37. Posts 7263 | Profile # |
| Considering that BW pulls in and pays the better players way more than the first place prize, I don't think their source is accurate. |
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| Norris_is_GODLY United Kingdom. March 14 2012 23:38. Posts 46 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 20:29 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
The fact that LoL is easy isnt a reason for it to not be #1.
I mean its not like soccer is hard and its the #1 sport in the world
were you dropped on your head as a baby?
User was warned for this post |
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| floor exercise Canada. March 14 2012 23:38. Posts 5503 | Profile Blog # |
| Whatever money Riot put into pushing LoL in Korea it pales in comparison to the ad campaign Blizzard ran at SC2's launch. You couldn't go 2 feet in Seoul without seeing an advertisement for SC2. They spent tens of millions advertising it, not to mention (probably) subsidizing Gom/GSL |
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| Shikyo Finland. March 14 2012 23:38. Posts 20117 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 23:16 Schwopzi wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:12 Xcobidoo wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:05 BluzMan wrote:
Geez, I'm so unhappy with the way this discussion is going. People try to use strange words like "skill ceiling" (that effectively should mean that you can't get better. Well wtf, there's no such thing) or LoL being "easier" than SC2. Wtf is that, really? It's equally hard to be good at anything provided there's competition. If winning at LoL takes you 6 hours of training per day, it only means that there's noone who practices 10 hours yet.
It's not about being easy or hard. SC2 is not easy compared to SC, SC2 is bad compared to SC. The only thing about those two games is that SC is much more fun to play and watch. And shit like MBS, automine or whatever other 'killer feature' don't mean anything, it's just the badly designed units, badly implemented pathfinding and a bad storyline stripped of 2/3 of the game's races to get more money with "expansions" that never saw the light of day. That in turn limits the influx of new players etc.
LoL's immense playerbase and recent growth proves that it's fun. It's more fun than SC2 to play and recently with the increase of the average skill level among top players it's become rather fun to watch. It's a better game. And please throw away all that bullshit about easiness. V are people wharious activities may have different entry levels (the amount of effort required to feel generally in control), but pushing anything to it's limit is equally hard. Just because pushing something to the limit means working as hard as possible. Progamerso push games to their limits, that easy. And, if anything, a low entry level is a good thing for the game, not bad, because it attracts audiences. Bitching about that is nothing but arrogance.
When it comes to player base, you can't compare a f2p-game with one that costs like 40-50 euro. Ofc there's not a "skill ceiling" if you dumb it down, you can always micro just a bit better or macro just a tiny bit better. The skill ceiling more refers to the fact that if player X practices for 2 hours/day and player Y practices for 8 hours/day and they are still comparable in skill (provided they have the same potential regarding RTS-games) then yes, there is a pretty low skill ceiling. Consider Quake where a 75-80% hit rate with railgun is considered amazing, the fact that there is still 20-25% to improve on there means that the skill ceiling is high.
So it took me less time to reach the top 2% in starcraft then it did for me to reach the top 10% in LoL. Does this mean LoL has a higher skillceiling?
This is actually funny btw, I used to be in top 1.5% of SC2 and I've never been in like top 10% of LoL despite playing like 4 times more games of LoL. |
| | "I shall wait for you in death's halls, my Love (love love love love~)" |
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| tbrown47 United States. March 14 2012 23:39. Posts 1234 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:33 daemir wrote:Take anyone who has never ever played or heard of Dota or moba games. Put them in a lane. See if they try to kill _their own forces_ before the enemy does. How can denying possibly be intuitive for anyone who wasn't fed that idea from Dota is beyond me.
You can say that about anything though... And it actually makes sense. If you get gold from killing creeps, then steal the kills from your enemies. Seems intuitive to me. But I agree it is a little weird from the outside looking in. However that isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying is why take it out of the game in the first place. That is what I don't get, that is what isn't intuitive it takes away something without adding anything.
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| Zergneedsfood United States. March 14 2012 23:39. Posts 5340 | Profile Blog # |
Who the hell cares if a game that just snatched the top spot in Korea is easy or not?
It's a casual game that also has a lot of qualified professionals. It might pale in comparison to its counterparts in its genre, but it's a game that a lot of people find enjoyable and worthwhile.
Hey guys, that sounds like Starcraft 2. Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:39:45 |
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| Phanekim United States. March 14 2012 23:39. Posts 649 | Profile # |
I've played LoL. Not my cup of tea. also its too simplistic for my tastes. Just my two cents.
I never understood the moba phenomenon. never. Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:40:11 |
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| windzor Denmark. March 14 2012 23:39. Posts 690 | Profile # |
5. intuitive mechanics; things like AP/spell damage scaling, brush/vision, objectives/buffs, "free" recalling, lack of deny mechanic are all things that are very intuitive to put into MOBA game that focuses on "fun" rather than "l33t" after a few years experience of DotA; these are the issues that fix the game for new players and cause DotA diehards to complain of "lack of depth" due to lack of buggy vision mechanics, and the possibility of efficient recalling and spell-based champions actually being useful lategame
DotA has spell-based champions which are pretty damn useful in lategame right now. Just go and look at Invoker.
Yes DotA spellcasters mostly isn't good lategame. But if you center your game around spellcasters, you also know they have a period in the game where they shine, and is really really good. It's called in-game depth which carries into several several gameplay types. Depending on what you like you go something different. If you like a spellcaster you have a period in the game, where you rule the board... Atm in the DotA metagame, hardcarries are actually not that often picked so you see alot of spellcasters. |
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| GGTeMpLaR United States. March 14 2012 23:39. Posts 3828 | Profile Blog # |
| Truly a sad day for esports. Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:40:30 |
| | “Although our intellect always longs for clarity and certainty, our nature often finds uncertainty fascinating.” ~Karl Von Clausewitz~ |
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| Capped Sri Lanka. March 14 2012 23:40. Posts 2229 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 23:36 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:28 Capped wrote:
But the only major differences in HoN/Dota is 1) Creep denies. 2) Loss of gold on death. 1 adds another element to skillful play i agree, yet still not good for spectating. 2 just makes it less forgiving and makes it snowball even more quickly with games lasting longer and faster snowballing, games have the potential to be very boring.
You need to educate yourself if you believe that these are the only differences between DotA and LoL, or if you believe that LoL is less snowball-y than DotA. As much as I dislike the misguided preconceptions that people have made about LoL in this game, you're doing the same thing.
LoL is very snowball like, i know and accept that but i was saying dota is more-so, if your ganked twice early game LoL, they get an advantage yes. In dota, its doubly so. See my point?
I didnt say it was the only differences, but its the two major ones.
I dont have misguided preconceptions, i just typed up a massive thread in sports and games and my fingers hurt so i dont want to type moar xD.
Other differences are quite minor unless im mistaken...? im not starting a flame war with this anyway, but while dota could require more skill, LoL has something that makes it more attractive to the masses. (Perhaps sona's boobs.)Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:40:41 |
| | 2K BLOG - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=409420 |
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| Wildmoon Thailand. March 14 2012 23:40. Posts 2679 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:38 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:16 Schwopzi wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:12 Xcobidoo wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:05 BluzMan wrote:
Geez, I'm so unhappy with the way this discussion is going. People try to use strange words like "skill ceiling" (that effectively should mean that you can't get better. Well wtf, there's no such thing) or LoL being "easier" than SC2. Wtf is that, really? It's equally hard to be good at anything provided there's competition. If winning at LoL takes you 6 hours of training per day, it only means that there's noone who practices 10 hours yet.
It's not about being easy or hard. SC2 is not easy compared to SC, SC2 is bad compared to SC. The only thing about those two games is that SC is much more fun to play and watch. And shit like MBS, automine or whatever other 'killer feature' don't mean anything, it's just the badly designed units, badly implemented pathfinding and a bad storyline stripped of 2/3 of the game's races to get more money with "expansions" that never saw the light of day. That in turn limits the influx of new players etc.
LoL's immense playerbase and recent growth proves that it's fun. It's more fun than SC2 to play and recently with the increase of the average skill level among top players it's become rather fun to watch. It's a better game. And please throw away all that bullshit about easiness. V are people wharious activities may have different entry levels (the amount of effort required to feel generally in control), but pushing anything to it's limit is equally hard. Just because pushing something to the limit means working as hard as possible. Progamerso push games to their limits, that easy. And, if anything, a low entry level is a good thing for the game, not bad, because it attracts audiences. Bitching about that is nothing but arrogance.
When it comes to player base, you can't compare a f2p-game with one that costs like 40-50 euro. Ofc there's not a "skill ceiling" if you dumb it down, you can always micro just a bit better or macro just a tiny bit better. The skill ceiling more refers to the fact that if player X practices for 2 hours/day and player Y practices for 8 hours/day and they are still comparable in skill (provided they have the same potential regarding RTS-games) then yes, there is a pretty low skill ceiling. Consider Quake where a 75-80% hit rate with railgun is considered amazing, the fact that there is still 20-25% to improve on there means that the skill ceiling is high.
So it took me less time to reach the top 2% in starcraft then it did for me to reach the top 10% in LoL. Does this mean LoL has a higher skillceiling?
This is actually funny btw, I used to be in top 1.5% of SC2 and I've never been in like top 10% of LoL despite playing like 4 times more games of LoL.
Are you sure you used to be 1.5% of SC2?
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| | "A man is what he chooses to be" |
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| StarStruck March 14 2012 23:40. Posts 18303 | Profile # |
This isn't really new. It was expected by many and the numbers don't lie.
I've tried watching it, but I really cannot get into it. |
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| NotSorry United States. March 14 2012 23:41. Posts 5327 | Profile Blog # |
I never saw SC2 as a rightful heir to BW, it was inferior in every aspect of competitive gaming and really just didn't have the power of BW to captivate the viewers interest with grandmaster chess level game planning and strategy. I rarely got any joy out of the game, even as a high masters random player the whole time I felt I was forcing myself to play because of hopes that one day they would fix the game into something worthy of having the StarCraft title on but lately I can't even force myself to play anymore and haven't even logged in this pass month.
Grats to Riot for making an awesome game that millions can enjoy and really standing behind your product every step of the way, now if only you would give a replay feature...
BW WGT: A- Protoss
Sc2: High Masters Random
LoL: 1400elo...Last edit: 2012-03-14 23:47:18 |
| | We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell |
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| Blasterion China. March 14 2012 23:42. Posts 10268 | Profile Blog # |
| This was pretty expected. LoL is pretty popular |
| | [TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread |
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| DeadBull Austria. March 14 2012 23:42. Posts 417 | Profile # |
| How long can MOBAS even be succesfull ? |
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