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konadora  Singapore. March 15 2012 00:20. Posts 44672 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me |
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| Shiragaku United States. March 15 2012 00:20. Posts 2923 | Profile Blog # |
For DotA players saying that LoL is so easy and that they were able to rise high in the ladder which makes the game a casual game as a result is incorrect.
I was ranked D+ in ICCUP and I made it to masters in SC 2. The reason is not because SC II is an easier game, but because so many more people are new to the genre and game in general. |
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 Rynzser_r March 15 2012 00:23. Posts 132 | Profile # |
I used to watch sc2 player streams , all tournaments but then dota 2 beta came and slowly i began watching only dota 2 streams/tournaments and didn`t even watch the major sc2 tournaments.;D
But i can`t watch even 1 min of LoL . that game is so boring to watchLast edit: 2012-03-15 00:24:00 |
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| DwD Sweden. March 15 2012 00:23. Posts 3384 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
Go on.. please. How does your game not gaining popularity and a falling playerbase not hurt you?Last edit: 2012-03-15 00:23:36 |
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| Wildmoon Thailand. March 15 2012 00:23. Posts 2727 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
SC2 is not big in Korea in the first place. So it's not like LoL stole SC2 throne or something like that. |
| | "A man is what he chooses to be" |
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| Zerksys United States. March 15 2012 00:23. Posts 560 | Profile Blog # |
On March 14 2012 20:19 gwaihir wrote:
meh, stupid lol. i guess while the rest of the world will be slowly overtaken by dota 2 after its release (hopefully), the koreans will be isolated once again with LoL :D
Unfortunately this is not going to be true. Valve has expressed to the community that Dota 2 is not going to be a free to play game which makes money off of micro transactions. A huge part of what made LoL such a huge game is that it is indeed free to play. For anyone who knows anything about broodwar, this is history repeating itself. The reason that broodwar got to be a huge game was because you could pass it around so easily. It got to a point where you could literally put the game on a usb and give it to your friend so you could play it at LANs. A game being free is a huge motivator to play the game. Once you begin to play the game, the gameplay will speak for itself.
On March 14 2012 20:12 Kamwah wrote:
LoL is just a shadow of DOTA. The 2 DOTAs coming out will take over from them I hope.
I love Dota 2, I have a beta key, and I want it so badly to succeed. However, the attitude that is so common among the community is that LoL players are just casuals who who are simply "too bad" to see the brilliance of dota 2. I want to tell the dota 2 community DO NOT DO THIS. This type of attitude is not a good attitude to attract people toward your game. If members of the dota 2 community continue to take this elitist attitude, dota 2 will never, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER EVER succeed. This elitist attitude is partly what drove me away from HoN and I see the same attitude starting to develop in the Dota 2 community even in the beta. This same elitist attitude is what is starting to drive people away from the sc2 community; the idea that, "oh you play ______ game? That's such an easy game compared to sc2."
As for with sc2, I hate to say this, but the company I love that made games such as wc3, scbw, and diablo, is dead. They have evolved into a corporate giant that cares nothing about their community other than earning their dollar. This is why blizzard will never again make another game as popular and has as much longevity as BW.
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| | What's that probe doing there? It's a scout. You mean one of those flying planes? No.... |
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| THM Bulgaria. March 15 2012 00:23. Posts 971 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:59 Two_DoWn wrote:
The reason lol seems easy is because its REALLY hard to draw someone better than you in a game. Everything is set up to make it as hard as possible for a top player to play against a bunch of mediocre ones. So you end up with everyone feeling as though they are just as good as pro players because they dont know any better.
And @ the deny discussion- the lack of deny in LoL makes laning more difficult than in dota. It is still possible to control the creep wave. Good players are capable of doing it. However, its MUCH harder because you arent given the ability to kill your own stuff.
The reason Starcraft 2 seems easy is because its REALLY hard to draw someone better than you in a game. Everything is set up to make it as hard as possible for a top player to play against a bunch of mediocre ones. So you end up with everyone feeling as though they are just as good as pro players because they dont know any better.
Did you catch my drift? |
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| Xiphos Canada. March 15 2012 00:24. Posts 5732 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 00:23 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
SC2 is not big in Korea in the first place. So it's not like LoL stole SC2 throne or something like that.
It means that SC2 is failing. |
| | 2012 - Remember of the Fallen Heroes and Command the way to your victory. |
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| Wildmoon Thailand. March 15 2012 00:25. Posts 2727 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:23 DwD wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
Go on.. please. How does your game not gaining popularity and a falling playerbase not hurt you?
This is about LoL's success not SC2 not gaining popularity at all..
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| | "A man is what he chooses to be" |
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| konadora Singapore. March 15 2012 00:25. Posts 44672 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 00:23 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
SC2 is not big in Korea in the first place. So it's not like LoL stole SC2 throne or something like that.
whatever potential or current sc2 fanbase that is in korea, they may go over to LoL
sponsors and tournament organizers as well
how is that not hurting blizzard?????? |
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| DwD Sweden. March 15 2012 00:25. Posts 3384 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:23 Zerksys wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:19 gwaihir wrote:
meh, stupid lol. i guess while the rest of the world will be slowly overtaken by dota 2 after its release (hopefully), the koreans will be isolated once again with LoL :D
Unfortunately this is not going to be true. Valve has expressed to the community that Dota 2 is not going to be a free to play game which makes money off of micro transactions. A huge part of what made LoL such a huge game is that it is indeed free to play. For anyone who knows anything about broodwar, this is history repeating itself. The reason that broodwar got to be a huge game was because you could pass it around so easily. It got to a point where you could literally put the game on a usb and give it to your friend so you could play it at LANs. A game being free is a huge motivator to play the game. Once you begin to play the game, the gameplay will speak for itself.
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:12 Kamwah wrote:
LoL is just a shadow of DOTA. The 2 DOTAs coming out will take over from them I hope.
I love Dota 2, I have a beta key, and I want it so badly to succeed. However, the attitude that is so common among the community is that LoL players are just casuals who who are simply "too bad" to see the brilliance of dota 2. I want to tell the dota 2 community DO NOT DO THIS. This type of attitude is not a good attitude to attract people toward your game. If members of the dota 2 community continue to take this elitist attitude, dota 2 will never, I repeat NEVER EVER EVER EVER succeed. This elitist attitude is partly what drove me away from HoN and I see the same attitude starting to develop in the Dota 2 community even in the beta. This same elitist attitude is what is starting to drive people away from the sc2 community; the idea that, "oh you play ______ game? That's such an easy game compared to sc2." As for with sc2, I hate to say this, but the company I love that made games such as wc3, scbw, and diablo, is dead. They have evolved into a corporate giant that cares nothing about their community other than earning their dollar. This is why blizzard will never again make another game as popular and has as much longevity as BW.
Source for Dota2 not going to be free to play? I'm pretty sure they haven't said anything? |
| | ♥ T-ara Soyeon - Fin.K.L Lee Jin - After School Jooyeon - miss A Jia - Younha - T-ara #1 Jaedong & HerO fanboy! |
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| AsianEcksDragon United States. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 519 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:14 sevia wrote:
I don't understand how League gets so many viewers. I've played hundreds of games of it, but it's just not fun to watch, at all. It's more likely that the huge numbers come from the sheer volume of players rather than having any merit as a competitive game spectator sport.
Edit: 'No merit as a competitive game' is unfair, but there's nothing entertaining about watching it.
One of the reasons is that the metagame is constantly changing due to the frequent champion releases and reworks. Take M5 recent dominance for instance. They reinvented the jungle meta in kiev with counterjungling over ganking and then again in hannover by adding a roaming support in addition to the counterjungles. If the game remains static then I doubt people would pay much attention to it. It's the fact that new things are continuously being discovered in each and every tournament. Pure RTS games like SC2 cannot be tampered with too much because the core gameplay would be change which undermines the hours of hardwork put into it by progamers. SC2 also lacks the many deep intracacies that made bw so successful despite having no gameplay changes in years. The game is too simple for an RTS and does not experience enough change to retain its playerbase.Last edit: 2012-03-15 00:27:32 |
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| dUTtrOACh Canada. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 1645 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
From the standpoint of someone who can't be entertained by watching LoL, I have to admit, Korean LoL popularity has no effect on my SC2 watching experience. Those of us who enjoy watching SC2 still enjoy watching SC2, and in my case, I've already purchased a copy of WoL and plan on getting HotS. I don't see how this hurts Blizzard directly, unless you're referring to Blizzard's DOTA clone? They shouldn't even bother AFAIC. |
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| DwD Sweden. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 3384 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:25 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:23 DwD wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
Go on.. please. How does your game not gaining popularity and a falling playerbase not hurt you?
This is about LoL's success not SC2 not gaining popularity at all..
Yes exactly. A player can't be in 2 games at once. If LoL is having huge success it has to take players from somewhere.. and most likely that is from blizzard games. Lets not forget about tournaments and sponsors aswell. Even spectators will drop from SC2 if they feel LoL is the future. |
| | ♥ T-ara Soyeon - Fin.K.L Lee Jin - After School Jooyeon - miss A Jia - Younha - T-ara #1 Jaedong & HerO fanboy! |
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| ShatterZer0 United States. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 1833 | Profile # |
On March 14 2012 23:38 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:16 Schwopzi wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:12 Xcobidoo wrote:
On March 14 2012 23:05 BluzMan wrote:
Geez, I'm so unhappy with the way this discussion is going. People try to use strange words like "skill ceiling" (that effectively should mean that you can't get better. Well wtf, there's no such thing) or LoL being "easier" than SC2. Wtf is that, really? It's equally hard to be good at anything provided there's competition. If winning at LoL takes you 6 hours of training per day, it only means that there's noone who practices 10 hours yet.
It's not about being easy or hard. SC2 is not easy compared to SC, SC2 is bad compared to SC. The only thing about those two games is that SC is much more fun to play and watch. And shit like MBS, automine or whatever other 'killer feature' don't mean anything, it's just the badly designed units, badly implemented pathfinding and a bad storyline stripped of 2/3 of the game's races to get more money with "expansions" that never saw the light of day. That in turn limits the influx of new players etc.
LoL's immense playerbase and recent growth proves that it's fun. It's more fun than SC2 to play and recently with the increase of the average skill level among top players it's become rather fun to watch. It's a better game. And please throw away all that bullshit about easiness. V are people wharious activities may have different entry levels (the amount of effort required to feel generally in control), but pushing anything to it's limit is equally hard. Just because pushing something to the limit means working as hard as possible. Progamerso push games to their limits, that easy. And, if anything, a low entry level is a good thing for the game, not bad, because it attracts audiences. Bitching about that is nothing but arrogance.
When it comes to player base, you can't compare a f2p-game with one that costs like 40-50 euro. Ofc there's not a "skill ceiling" if you dumb it down, you can always micro just a bit better or macro just a tiny bit better. The skill ceiling more refers to the fact that if player X practices for 2 hours/day and player Y practices for 8 hours/day and they are still comparable in skill (provided they have the same potential regarding RTS-games) then yes, there is a pretty low skill ceiling. Consider Quake where a 75-80% hit rate with railgun is considered amazing, the fact that there is still 20-25% to improve on there means that the skill ceiling is high.
So it took me less time to reach the top 2% in starcraft then it did for me to reach the top 10% in LoL. Does this mean LoL has a higher skillceiling?
This is actually funny btw, I used to be in top 1.5% of SC2 and I've never been in like top 10% of LoL despite playing like 4 times more games of LoL.
Actually it just means the learning curve is harsher in SC2...
Tell me, what's the difference between a professional LoL player and a top 25% LoL player with them both running the same items/champion/general strategy?
The only real differences would be in the mid-long term (The top 25% player would likely be worse at last hitting and obtaining gold/knowing when to kill non-standard creeps) or during ganking....
Kind of like a Master League level player trying to 7 gate +2 blink all in with a build order recipe... there wouldn't be much difference.
The only problem with this analogy is that in SC2 you can't ONLY rely on practicing cookie cutter builds... in LoL, to a fair degree, you can.... because... well... What is there really in LoL that separates the best of the best from relative novices who simply know the game?
Ganking skill, team synergy, knowing when to modify builds to react to enemy teams/unlucky situations... What else is there? You don't even really need map awareness because of team chat and pinging
There's just less to do and less on the line if you lose a game... I'm not saying LoL doesn't take some serious skill, it's just that LoL doesn't provide very much in terms of being able to show how goddamn awesome progamers are.
Oh god... I feel like I just wrote some blasphemous SC:BW > SC2 post... WHAT HAVE I BECOME? |
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 rotinegg United States. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 1717 | Profile Blog # |
There was a mis-translation in the prize pool amount: it's ~$180,000 TOTAL, not ~$1.8million for the winner.
Here's a quick translation I put together as Kotaku seems to have neglected or mis-translated bits and pieces of the original article:
With the establishment of an official league, LoL looks to challenge [BW] for the e-sports throne.
Many are speculating that esports affiliated entities are shifting focus to LoL from SC2 as well. For the first time in Korean e-sports history, a European media company is the official sponsor for the league, and with that it seems e-sports is branching out towards the foreign scene. According to the numbers, on the March 14th GameTricks, a PC-bang analytics provider, said LoL now occupies 12.45% of total playtime, close behind Aion which holds the title at 15.35%. LoL surpassed games such as Sudden Attack, BW and Fifa Online2, which have kept pace with Aion, over the course of four months.
Public opinion is that LoL is the most successful foreign game since Blizzard's WoW, and is now threatening BW for the throne of e-sports. According to reports from the end of 2011, Starcraft 2, which was once ranked at 12th in total playtime, is now down to 18th.
On the 14th, OGN held an announcement for the commencement of the official LoL league, and introduced its sponsor. Azubu, its sponsor, is a media group based in Germany, and has signed a joint-partnership with OGN on January 27th. The partnership plans to provide live streaming in both Korean and English, and VoD service.
Robert Sheik [No idea how it's actually spelled lol], representing Azubu, said "We hope to provide high quality e-sports content with this sponsorship and develop a solid infrastructure for the global gaming industry.
Starting on March 21, the league plans to cast matches biweekly, in which 16 teams from not just Korea, but NA and Europe will participate. The total prizepool will be 0.2 billion won (~$180,000) and starting from this fall, four seasons of tournaments are planned to be held.
Currently whether LoL will usurp BW for the e-sports throne is a hot topic of discussion. LoL has been registered as Kespa's 42nd official progaming title, and the producer of LoL has also shown great support in e-sports-ifying LoL. In the midst of events such as MBC game shutting down and the general decline in interest in the e-sports scene, LoL has garnered popularity from both native and foreign fans, and the question of whether it will succeed as an e-sports is gathering much attention.Last edit: 2012-03-15 01:57:20 |
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| iRRelevance Romania. March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 718 | Profile # |
People here saying "LoL? why not dota 2" are insane
Because dota2 is not out man, that's why.
I was a hardcore sc2 player but I switched to lol because it's more FUN to play. I get to interact with all my friends and it creates a friendly-casual atmosphere, just what I need when I play a game.
Maybe when dota2 comes out I will switch, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll switch to another game. Maybe I'll switch to HoTs when it comes out. Time will only tell.
STOP BEING A FANBOY, START BEING A CONSUMER. |
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| Mordiford March 15 2012 00:26. Posts 4112 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:16 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Show nested quote +You can do, and do do the same thing in DotA/HoN though. Strong laners can completely zone out heroes and keep complete lane control that way as well. However there is ALSO denying.
There is more mechanic to worry about for sure. But you're still competing against another human on the other side. WIth or without denying, some people are better than others. If you're playing the game competitively then nothing comes as "too easy". If it's the lack of mechanic you're complaining about then the same can be said of SC2 when compared to BW.
It's not the same thing. In video games, there's an artificial cap on what players can accomplish, these aren't physical sports where you're directly pitted against someone who can be physically stronger, there are actual limits to what you can translate to physical action regardless of your mental capacity when playing a game. Quite simple example tic-tac-toe vs chess, or even checkers vs chess, one severely limits the actual interaction possible which limits how good each player can actually be.
In Starcraft 2 and Broodwar, you still see players who are both visibly playing very well but one player is genuinely playing better than the other player aside from mistakes because of the amount of things that go into the game. This is much more limited in a game like League of Legends, which ultimately makes competitive games visibly come down to a few crucial mistakes.
The complexity of heroes in a game like DotA allow for a variety of additional options that are unachievable with the design philosophy found in LoL, quite simply, the champions in the game have a basic set of skills that can only be used in very specific ways, this limits your options and ultimately limits what your skill can translate into in the game. |
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| Kambing United States. March 15 2012 00:27. Posts 1086 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:24 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:23 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
SC2 is not big in Korea in the first place. So it's not like LoL stole SC2 throne or something like that.
It means that SC2 is failing.
Starcraft is not synonymous with esports.
Also, Korea is not synonymous with esports.
Play the game(s) you like playing. Hope that the others become wildly popular as an esport which will bring legitimacy to your own favorite game(s) as esports. |
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| Wildmoon Thailand. March 15 2012 00:27. Posts 2727 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 00:26 dUTtrOACh wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:20 konadora wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:16 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 15 2012 00:15 KimJongIlJr wrote:
Actiblizzard deserves every bit of this.
Actually, This doesn't hurt Blizzard at all.
how exactly does this not hurt blizzard, please enlighten me
From the standpoint of someone who can't be entertained by watching LoL, I have to admit, Korean LoL popularity has no effect on my SC2 watching experience. Those of us who enjoy watching SC2 still enjoy watching SC2, and in my case, I've already purchased a copy of WoL and plan on getting HotS. I don't see how this hurts Blizzard directly, unless you're referring to Blizzard's DOTA clone? They shouldn't even bother AFAIC.
Yeah, that's my point. SC2 has more tournaments for me to watch even more in 2012 than 2011. I don't see LoL's success in Korea has anything to do with SC2.
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