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| LOLZEY Canada. March 19 2012 05:19. Posts 45 | Profile # |
Hi, I just played a PvT on Metal where I just lost to a weird mech build. The terran starts with a 1-1-1 expand into a hellion marine drop. He then masses up tanks and hellions while dropping hellions in my minerals. I open with 1g expand and lost too many probes.
Attached is the replay, if anyone can give me pointers to beat this playstyle (or any solid builds), please do! thanks!
I am high diamond if that helps.
http://drop.sc/135927 |
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 Sergio1992 Italy. March 19 2012 05:35. Posts 521 | Profile Blog # |
I don't think that you need to put much thought to see what you have done wrong on this game. You basically massed the "only" unit you shouldn't have made, the stalker. If all these stalkers you made were zealots with charge, game would have gone really differently...
Put a thought behind every unit you make.
Good luck on ladder.
Another thing: zealot is a good counter, but I would suggest to add also storm. It will net you easy wins against meching players on pvt  Last edit: 2012-03-19 05:39:14 |
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| Kaitokid Germany. March 19 2012 05:39. Posts 1322 | Profile Blog # |
| lol right "build only chargelots instead of only blink stalkers". good advice ^^ |
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| Skwid1g United States. March 19 2012 05:40. Posts 916 | Profile # |
| Blink stalkers are pretty mediocre against mech unless you can blink into a large tank line or are simply abusing the mobility of the mech army. If you go blink stalkers you want to blink into his base and harass every time he goes to move out with the "death push" and take relatively quick expansions. However, if you want to directly engage him (like it looks like you wanted to do) you need a lot more immortals/zealots. Immortals are insanely good versus tanks and hellions, and zealots are cheap and good against tanks. You'll still want a handful of stalkers to deal with any banshees/drops and such, but mainly zealots with charge and immortals against mech. Last edit: 2012-03-19 05:42:32 |
| | NaDa/Fantasy/Zero/Soulkey pls |
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| Josh_rakoons United Kingdom. March 19 2012 05:43. Posts 1157 | Profile # |
On March 19 2012 05:39 Kaitokid wrote:
lol right "build only chargelots instead of only blink stalkers". good advice ^^
Its good advice because its correct advice.
Meanwhile, you added nothing to help. Last edit: 2012-03-19 05:43:58 |
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| ThisisRaider Namibia. March 19 2012 06:08. Posts 136 | Profile # |
Yea immortals not really good against hellions in numbers on its own but yea, immortal, zealot, archon.
I agree with the other comments, blink stalker harras in base if he plays tanks, and zlot immortal archon in big engagements. Zealots tank allot of damage and causes allot splash on hellions and other tanks.
Play high templar and go feedback / storm crazy against bio mech with marine / thor / banshee / medivac.
Zlot archon immortal still apply here though, but high templar is so good against this composition, its a must.
Wall off your expansions like you would do against zerg and spam some cannons for those hellions.
a Tech switch to air is always possible if the game even lasts that long. |
| | Blueflame helions is not a good choice unless you go mech (which is not a good choice). |
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| Josh_rakoons United Kingdom. March 19 2012 09:10. Posts 1157 | Profile # |
| Void rays and phoenix's are terrible vs thors and vikings. |
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| LOLZEY Canada. March 19 2012 09:11. Posts 45 | Profile # |
Thanks for the help thus far guys!
I think the main thing that lost me the game was the hellion drop while I was fighting in the middle of the map. Took out like 15 probes, I was even on workers before then.
How do I minimize probe loss? o.O |
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| Corrosive Canada. March 19 2012 09:17. Posts 3660 | Profile # |
On March 19 2012 09:11 LOLZEY wrote:
Thanks for the help thus far guys!
I think the main thing that lost me the game was the hellion drop while I was fighting in the middle of the map. Took out like 15 probes, I was even on workers before then.
How do I minimize probe loss? o.O
Well, if you notice it, you have to try to spread them out as much as possible. Dont ever select all your probes and send them to your natural or anything like that, they will clump up pretty bad. Just try to take them to an open part of your base and spread them out so hellions can only kill 1 or 2 at a time.
If you don't notice it. well. pray to zeratul i suppose! |
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| zezamer Finland. March 19 2012 09:50. Posts 1805 | Profile # |
On March 19 2012 09:11 LOLZEY wrote:
How do I minimize probe loss? o.O
Well the worst thing that you can do is to try to box them and move them somewhere. If you are unlucky you lose all probes and it's gg.
You can either just keep them mining, it's kinda hard to get more than 2-3 kills per shot or select them , hit H and spread them out a little manually after that.
Last edit: 2012-03-19 09:52:36 |
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| Dark.EX United States. March 19 2012 10:10. Posts 1504 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2012 09:50 zezamer wrote:Well the worst thing that you can do is to try to box them and move them somewhere. If you are unlucky you lose all probes and it's gg. You can either just keep them mining, it's kinda hard to get more than 2-3 kills per shot or select them , hit H and spread them out a little manually after that.
A good way to spread workers fast is to first, box all the workers in the danger zone, press S to stop them. Then, spam whatever your select idle worker button is, and spam right click all over the screen. If you don't have any idle workers outside your base, it should spread your probes everywhere. |
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| LF9 United States. March 19 2012 10:20. Posts 537 | Profile # |
Yea everyone saying chargelot immortal composition is right. Also obviously a couple sentries for guardian shield, but nowhere NEAR as many as you'd get vs bio. Definitely have a small group of stalker in the back or roaming near your bases, though, because they counter hellions so well they basically negate them. Upgrades are different against mech, a little. You still have a lot of zealots, but mech isnt going to kite you like bio, except for hellions, so you dont need to go armor first. They have less units, and they need to be killed as soon as possible. I like to go for +2 weapons before I get armor vs a meching T and just use sentries for gshield and control them as best you can.
Another thing to try that has given me lots of sucess is getting a warp prism once you have an immortal out and an observer sitting his army and try to drop the immortal next to his factories and snipe all the tech labs (or reactors, but priority on tech labs). If you see that hes trying to drag it to late game, hold off and do this with 2 Immortals later on, but with the aim to snipe his armories. You dont want to be facing 3/3 mech if you can possibly avoid it. You obviously want to make a few Stalkers before anything else and keep them somewhere where Hellions will have to be taking hits to get close to any mineral line. But chargelot immortal sentry with smart upgrades and harassing his tech/production as best you can is your answer. Also, even though people say phoenix sucks vs viking, still try to get a few phoenix, JUST enough to cover drop paths and shoot down medivacs before the drop gets there. Hellions (especially of the blue flame persuasion) are generally best kept away from your mineral lines, I hear they're decent against probes. Like 4 maaaaybe 5 phoenix and Patrol move ftw. I know its weird playinog against anything except bio in pvt because its just soooo good with stim and ghosts, but the element of fighting a unit composition that you rarely see is a disadvantage. I really dont care for HT vs this comp unless hes thor heavy, because I like to get a dark shrine for my archons. The archons are more expensive, yea, but being able to make a few DTs on a whim and sneak them into a base or two while his army is out is so nice, because the only units that can make it there in time are his hellions, and if he panics and sends lots of hellions, you now have your attack window; with those hellions trying to chase down dts, your chargelots suddenly feel a lot more durable. And in engagements, its nice to have a warp prism (or two) to either drop zealots on his army, or what I consider better, go around and drop immortals behind the tanks. The only other tip I can offer is to get hallucinate when you can afford it, not necessarily right after wg is done. Add a few more sentries, and as long as you give him no reason to bring detection everywhere he goes, a handful of hallucinated immortals at the front with the rest of your immortals will soak up a lot of damage. And hallucinating air and giving him a glimpse could enduce him to build vikings or thors, which are both useless vs your composition. Dont forget about drops tho, so when you lose your stalkers, make sure to warp in a round to replace so there isn't a probecue in your mineral line. Hope at least some of this helped! |
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| LF9 United States. March 19 2012 10:21. Posts 537 | Profile # |
| double post sorry Last edit: 2012-03-19 10:23:47 |
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| Fossa United States. March 19 2012 21:52. Posts 67 | Profile # |
| Imo, this is more of a problem handling drops. I'm terrible at defending drops, but I guess the theory is you should have a cannon and a couple stalkers in each base for defense. Also you should have proxy pylons and observers spotting drops. Once you have a templar archives, add a high templar to each base and remove one other unit. |
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| LOLZEY Canada. March 20 2012 02:25. Posts 45 | Profile # |
On March 19 2012 10:20 LF9 wrote:
Yea everyone saying chargelot immortal composition is right. Also obviously a couple sentries for guardian shield, but nowhere NEAR as many as you'd get vs bio. Definitely have a small group of stalker in the back or roaming near your bases, though, because they counter hellions so well they basically negate them. Upgrades are different against mech, a little. You still have a lot of zealots, but mech isnt going to kite you like bio, except for hellions, so you dont need to go armor first. They have less units, and they need to be killed as soon as possible. I like to go for +2 weapons before I get armor vs a meching T and just use sentries for gshield and control them as best you can.
Another thing to try that has given me lots of sucess is getting a warp prism once you have an immortal out and an observer sitting his army and try to drop the immortal next to his factories and snipe all the tech labs (or reactors, but priority on tech labs). If you see that hes trying to drag it to late game, hold off and do this with 2 Immortals later on, but with the aim to snipe his armories. You dont want to be facing 3/3 mech if you can possibly avoid it. You obviously want to make a few Stalkers before anything else and keep them somewhere where Hellions will have to be taking hits to get close to any mineral line. But chargelot immortal sentry with smart upgrades and harassing his tech/production as best you can is your answer. Also, even though people say phoenix sucks vs viking, still try to get a few phoenix, JUST enough to cover drop paths and shoot down medivacs before the drop gets there. Hellions (especially of the blue flame persuasion) are generally best kept away from your mineral lines, I hear they're decent against probes. Like 4 maaaaybe 5 phoenix and Patrol move ftw. I know its weird playinog against anything except bio in pvt because its just soooo good with stim and ghosts, but the element of fighting a unit composition that you rarely see is a disadvantage. I really dont care for HT vs this comp unless hes thor heavy, because I like to get a dark shrine for my archons. The archons are more expensive, yea, but being able to make a few DTs on a whim and sneak them into a base or two while his army is out is so nice, because the only units that can make it there in time are his hellions, and if he panics and sends lots of hellions, you now have your attack window; with those hellions trying to chase down dts, your chargelots suddenly feel a lot more durable. And in engagements, its nice to have a warp prism (or two) to either drop zealots on his army, or what I consider better, go around and drop immortals behind the tanks. The only other tip I can offer is to get hallucinate when you can afford it, not necessarily right after wg is done. Add a few more sentries, and as long as you give him no reason to bring detection everywhere he goes, a handful of hallucinated immortals at the front with the rest of your immortals will soak up a lot of damage. And hallucinating air and giving him a glimpse could enduce him to build vikings or thors, which are both useless vs your composition. Dont forget about drops tho, so when you lose your stalkers, make sure to warp in a round to replace so there isn't a probecue in your mineral line. Hope at least some of this helped!
Thanks for such a comprehensive answer LF9!
I know chargelot-immortal-sentry is the composition most people like against this mech build. However, the composition I faced was massss hellions + mass tanks. Immortals would kill the tanks, but wouldn't hellions roast my chargelot's? Assuming the terran can kite well.
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| lightsentry March 20 2012 02:38. Posts 227 | Profile # |
On March 20 2012 02:25 LOLZEY wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 10:20 LF9 wrote:
Yea everyone saying chargelot immortal composition is right. Also obviously a couple sentries for guardian shield, but nowhere NEAR as many as you'd get vs bio. Definitely have a small group of stalker in the back or roaming near your bases, though, because they counter hellions so well they basically negate them. Upgrades are different against mech, a little. You still have a lot of zealots, but mech isnt going to kite you like bio, except for hellions, so you dont need to go armor first. They have less units, and they need to be killed as soon as possible. I like to go for +2 weapons before I get armor vs a meching T and just use sentries for gshield and control them as best you can.
Another thing to try that has given me lots of sucess is getting a warp prism once you have an immortal out and an observer sitting his army and try to drop the immortal next to his factories and snipe all the tech labs (or reactors, but priority on tech labs). If you see that hes trying to drag it to late game, hold off and do this with 2 Immortals later on, but with the aim to snipe his armories. You dont want to be facing 3/3 mech if you can possibly avoid it. You obviously want to make a few Stalkers before anything else and keep them somewhere where Hellions will have to be taking hits to get close to any mineral line. But chargelot immortal sentry with smart upgrades and harassing his tech/production as best you can is your answer. Also, even though people say phoenix sucks vs viking, still try to get a few phoenix, JUST enough to cover drop paths and shoot down medivacs before the drop gets there. Hellions (especially of the blue flame persuasion) are generally best kept away from your mineral lines, I hear they're decent against probes. Like 4 maaaaybe 5 phoenix and Patrol move ftw. I know its weird playinog against anything except bio in pvt because its just soooo good with stim and ghosts, but the element of fighting a unit composition that you rarely see is a disadvantage. I really dont care for HT vs this comp unless hes thor heavy, because I like to get a dark shrine for my archons. The archons are more expensive, yea, but being able to make a few DTs on a whim and sneak them into a base or two while his army is out is so nice, because the only units that can make it there in time are his hellions, and if he panics and sends lots of hellions, you now have your attack window; with those hellions trying to chase down dts, your chargelots suddenly feel a lot more durable. And in engagements, its nice to have a warp prism (or two) to either drop zealots on his army, or what I consider better, go around and drop immortals behind the tanks. The only other tip I can offer is to get hallucinate when you can afford it, not necessarily right after wg is done. Add a few more sentries, and as long as you give him no reason to bring detection everywhere he goes, a handful of hallucinated immortals at the front with the rest of your immortals will soak up a lot of damage. And hallucinating air and giving him a glimpse could enduce him to build vikings or thors, which are both useless vs your composition. Dont forget about drops tho, so when you lose your stalkers, make sure to warp in a round to replace so there isn't a probecue in your mineral line. Hope at least some of this helped!
Thanks for such a comprehensive answer LF9! I know chargelot-immortal-sentry is the composition most people like against this mech build. However, the composition I faced was massss hellions + mass tanks. Immortals would kill the tanks, but wouldn't hellions roast my chargelot's? Assuming the terran can kite well.
One reason you dont see mech that often anymore is the bfh nerf really hurt hellion vs zealot. Theyll tank quite a bit so you dps can close similar to against bio. You can also mix in archons i suppose |
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| McTeazy Canada. March 20 2012 02:41. Posts 143 | Profile # |
On March 20 2012 02:25 LOLZEY wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 10:20 LF9 wrote:
Yea everyone saying chargelot immortal composition is right. Also obviously a couple sentries for guardian shield, but nowhere NEAR as many as you'd get vs bio. Definitely have a small group of stalker in the back or roaming near your bases, though, because they counter hellions so well they basically negate them. Upgrades are different against mech, a little. You still have a lot of zealots, but mech isnt going to kite you like bio, except for hellions, so you dont need to go armor first. They have less units, and they need to be killed as soon as possible. I like to go for +2 weapons before I get armor vs a meching T and just use sentries for gshield and control them as best you can.
Another thing to try that has given me lots of sucess is getting a warp prism once you have an immortal out and an observer sitting his army and try to drop the immortal next to his factories and snipe all the tech labs (or reactors, but priority on tech labs). If you see that hes trying to drag it to late game, hold off and do this with 2 Immortals later on, but with the aim to snipe his armories. You dont want to be facing 3/3 mech if you can possibly avoid it. You obviously want to make a few Stalkers before anything else and keep them somewhere where Hellions will have to be taking hits to get close to any mineral line. But chargelot immortal sentry with smart upgrades and harassing his tech/production as best you can is your answer. Also, even though people say phoenix sucks vs viking, still try to get a few phoenix, JUST enough to cover drop paths and shoot down medivacs before the drop gets there. Hellions (especially of the blue flame persuasion) are generally best kept away from your mineral lines, I hear they're decent against probes. Like 4 maaaaybe 5 phoenix and Patrol move ftw. I know its weird playinog against anything except bio in pvt because its just soooo good with stim and ghosts, but the element of fighting a unit composition that you rarely see is a disadvantage. I really dont care for HT vs this comp unless hes thor heavy, because I like to get a dark shrine for my archons. The archons are more expensive, yea, but being able to make a few DTs on a whim and sneak them into a base or two while his army is out is so nice, because the only units that can make it there in time are his hellions, and if he panics and sends lots of hellions, you now have your attack window; with those hellions trying to chase down dts, your chargelots suddenly feel a lot more durable. And in engagements, its nice to have a warp prism (or two) to either drop zealots on his army, or what I consider better, go around and drop immortals behind the tanks. The only other tip I can offer is to get hallucinate when you can afford it, not necessarily right after wg is done. Add a few more sentries, and as long as you give him no reason to bring detection everywhere he goes, a handful of hallucinated immortals at the front with the rest of your immortals will soak up a lot of damage. And hallucinating air and giving him a glimpse could enduce him to build vikings or thors, which are both useless vs your composition. Dont forget about drops tho, so when you lose your stalkers, make sure to warp in a round to replace so there isn't a probecue in your mineral line. Hope at least some of this helped!
Thanks for such a comprehensive answer LF9! I know chargelot-immortal-sentry is the composition most people like against this mech build. However, the composition I faced was massss hellions + mass tanks. Immortals would kill the tanks, but wouldn't hellions roast my chargelot's? Assuming the terran can kite well.
hellions are mostly just to try to protect their tanks and thors behind them. honestly, zealots just have a lot of health and with charge you won't have hellions firing into huge groups of zealots. It's not ideal to engage BFH with zealots, but you can do it and trade somewhat effectively. with immortals and archons in your mix, you'll bowl over those helions bvefore you can blink (lolpun) |
| | a person is smart, people are stupid |
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| Nihonjin March 20 2012 03:00. Posts 66 | Profile # |
I like to go ht/immortal/zealot instead of archon. And get +2 weapon chargelot. I believe you need ht to take out the marine/helion once it reaches to midgame and immortal to own tanks and zealots to tank most of damage.
Oh and you shouldnt run head on to terran death ball. There units are more cost effective so you will need to flank and get a good surround on them. If they mass thor just feedback but rarely happens
Just dont get colos, mech dont need medivac so they will pump vikings/banshee.
Try and use warp prism for harass too. They move out drop zealot in there base and force them back or lose alot of scv and force all in from them. Also when engaging terran, load the wp with ht. so they wont get sniped and storm them and run.
Also put 2-3 cannons near mineral line with a ht/stalker. That should take care of helions. Last edit: 2012-03-20 03:06:48 |
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| SolidZeal United States. March 20 2012 04:31. Posts 388 | Profile # |
| -mispost, wrong thread Last edit: 2012-03-20 04:31:50 |
| | In the clearing stands a boxer and a figher by his trade |
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| Otsuka United States. March 24 2012 20:48. Posts 21 | Profile # |
| I just got my butt kicked by this mech build which I'm seeing more and more often.. what do I do when they start getting BC's? I tried to go carriers, immos, zealots but lost bad |
| | Achieve your own personal enlightenment, for the benefit of all beings. |
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