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| Mataza Germany. March 21 2012 04:29. Posts 1668 | Profile Blog # |
I think this is heavily skewed by then tendency of most males, which is the "threesome with 2 girls fantasy" and the general tendency of men to prefer watching(a 'hunter' thing, as opposed to 'gatherer' from the ancient times).
Chose no, because when we talk about gay sex I imagine the girls to not need me. And I would hate to be replaced, even temporary. |
| | If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right |
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 lorkac United States. March 21 2012 04:31. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 04:28 XenOsky- wrote:
Only if I would be allowed to participate...
Would you be okay if she wanted to fuck a man--so long as you participate? |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| HyperLink Canada. March 21 2012 06:03. Posts 172 | Profile # |
On March 21 2012 04:01 sirkyan wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 03:29 HyperLink wrote:
My wife has shown an interest in other women and has done just about everything short of sex with other women. I find it funny how people can make the justification in their own mind that "you don't really love them if you let them have sex with anyone else" while acting controlling, dominating, jealous and possessive toward another human being with their own thoughts and desires.
You accept everything about your partner. If you can't handle what your partner wants then you are the problem and you shouldn't be in that relationship.
Yo. I just wanted to comment on this quickly: I don't think it's fair to say "If you can't handle what your partner wants then you are the problem and you shouldn't be in that relationship." This goes both ways. If she (since I'm a guy) can't respect what I want, her not to do something, then she shouldn't be in it either. So, to make your comment more general: if two people aren't compatible when it comes to things they are not willing to compromise, _they_ are the problem and should not be in a relationship. Peace! Edit: Just to make it perfectly clear, I am OK with anything two people want to do to and with themselves as long as it affects no one that doesn't want it. ANYTHING.
Just to clarify what I meant when I said "you are the problem" . If you can't accept the other person for who they are then the relationship isn't going to work. Trying to change someone or impose restrictions isn't healthy for anyone. It just leads to resentment and arguments. If you recognize that you are incompatible the correct and mature response is to move on, not to impose your will on another person. In that case, you are the problem. |
| | A woman is a lot like a refrigerator. 6 feet tall, 300 pounds... it makes ice. |
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| EienShinwa United States. March 21 2012 06:12. Posts 651 | Profile # |
| I think if you find it hot and appealing for her to make out with a girl, you should be prepared and fully willing to do the same with a dude. Otherwise you're one selfish pathetic son of a bitch. |
| | I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches. Alice Roosevelt Longworth |
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| Djzapz Canada. March 21 2012 06:21. Posts 5866 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 06:12 EienShinwa wrote:
I think if you find it hot and appealing for her to make out with a girl, you should be prepared and fully willing to do the same with a dude. Otherwise you're one selfish pathetic son of a bitch.
If she wants to do it with another girl, why would I have to do it with a man? If the point was to force her to do it with a girl I'd understand, but we're not talking about that. What the hell are you on about? |
| | "My incompetence with power tools had exponentially increased after 21 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners" |
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| Zahir United States. March 21 2012 06:56. Posts 920 | Profile # |
On March 21 2012 04:21 lorkac wrote:This is not the first thread where I have had to defend the rights of women.
That's the whole point, you aren't defending anyone's rights, at least not in this thread. If a woman wants a relationship with a man who'll be okay with her having sex with other women, but not other men, that is her choice. It's her right to decide that for herself. There is no coercion involved in that scenario, and hence, no violation of anyone's rights. You might say that the guy's preferences show a misogynistic tendency, but let's not confuse that with violating a woman's rights.
To say "I'll leave if I find you banging other dudes, but you can bang other chicks" is not violating anyone's rights. It is exercising your own right to make decisions, based on how others act.
I know you have a lot of negative stuff to say about how society treats women. And you're not wrong, at least about a certain subset of society (by no means the majority). But you should try not to make the problem worse by depriving people, including women, the right to make choices about their relationships.
edit: rephrased.Last edit: 2012-03-21 06:59:48 |
| | What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss. |
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| BadWolf0 United States. March 21 2012 07:16. Posts 300 | Profile # |
| A lot of people are expressing their opinion, and others are passing judgements, but I wanted to comment on the 'fault' thing. IE if one person wants pure monogamy and the other doesn't (whether full open or just mostly monogamous with the possibility of once in a while partner fun). Dan Savage always talks about the 'price of admission.' Almost everyone has something they like sexually/want to explore that not everyone is as down with. If your price of admission is that to be with you it HAS to be monogamous and your partner's price is that there has to be an opening then you aren't compatible. It doesn't mean either of you is wrong or at fault it just means that if you guys were together there is no way to not make one person feel restricted. Doesn't even mean it can't work it just means there has to be a conversation (gasp!) and both ahve to decide what they need. What makes someone a CPOS,.as DS puts it, (Cheating Piece of Shit) is when they decide they have needs that they know their partner isn't down with and just lie about. I'm in a monogomous relationship of 2 years. I have no desire to have other partners but if I knew my bf needed that it would be fine with me. |
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| Cosmos Belgium. March 21 2012 07:20. Posts 1005 | Profile # |
| Hard decision, depends of a ton of factors. Last edit: 2012-03-21 07:21:08 |
| | http://www.justin.tv/becosmos |
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| sixfour England. March 21 2012 07:27. Posts 10372 | Profile Blog # |
| i want to make some joke about allowing my right hand to shake my left hand round about now /foreveralone |
| | p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea - dreaming of a non-terrible sc2 tournament |
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| lorkac United States. March 21 2012 10:33. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 06:56 Zahir wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 04:21 lorkac wrote:This is not the first thread where I have had to defend the rights of women.
That's the whole point, you aren't defending anyone's rights, at least not in this thread. If a woman wants a relationship with a man who'll be okay with her having sex with other women, but not other men, that is her choice. It's her right to decide that for herself. There is no coercion involved in that scenario, and hence, no violation of anyone's rights. You might say that the guy's preferences show a misogynistic tendency, but let's not confuse that with violating a woman's rights. To say "I'll leave if I find you banging other dudes, but you can bang other chicks" is not violating anyone's rights. It is exercising your own right to make decisions, based on how others act. I know you have a lot of negative stuff to say about how society treats women. And you're not wrong, at least about a certain subset of society (by no means the majority). But you should try not to make the problem worse by depriving people, including women, the right to make choices about their relationships. edit: rephrased.
Yes. Her having to ask permission who is okay to fuck or not with your word as the final say is totally not coercion. /sarcasm.
We live in a society where it is a given that men are supposed to be turned on when two chicks have sex. We're also in a society where men are supposed to be turned off by men having sex unless the viewer is himself a homosexual. And I mean exactly that when I say "men having sex." We are expected to be turned off by male homosexuality and to also be turned off by men having sex with our women--because we have to use terms such as "our" in order for us to properly talk about the property in question. Girls know of and have been institutionalized with this mindset, with this way of seeing the world. They already know that men are supposedly against watching their girlfriend being fucked by another man. They also know that men are supposed to enjoy watching two women have sex. The decision's already been made before she even gets to ask the question. It's merely something that she has to accept as normal. That if she were to ever want to have sex with other people, and still be with her significant other, that she has to have sex with women. This is a societal curse, not a personal one. As I have been saying over and over again. The problem is never that *you* are making the ultimatums, the problem is that the ultimatums ever present and ubiquitous. The ultimatums are fed deep into our brains daily like the air we breathe. It's never a real conversation because she already knows the answer. Much like everyone knew that this thread would have a shit tonne of people post on it about how awesome it would be for them to have a threeway (because, once again, when the girl asks to have sex with someone else, the male partner only seems to be able to think of it in selfish terms).
Do I get to watch?
Do I get to join?
Is she hot?
Will I know the details?
Will there be a video?
The focus immediately is directed towards how the male feels about the situation.
The questions aren't why is it that she's interested in fucking someone else?
Is there a need she has that isn't being satisfied?
Is there a kink she has that you didn't know about?
Why did she not share it? Was she afraid to share?
Is the sex for her, or is the sex for me? Is she trying to impress me?
Why is she trying to impress me? Does she feel that I don't appreciate her?
Etc...
The thoughts that should automatically come in your head are questions on why she wants to do something so off the beaten path. You should be asking if it's something she's doing for herself, for the both you, for you. You should be wondering why you didn't see it coming.
But we don't. Instead we very stereotypically think about hot lesbian sex. We don't have to think about those thoughts because we already have an institutional answer given to us simply by living in the west. Its the same answer that the girls know. It's the same answer and way of seeing the world that we know. The answer is that men are supposedly turned on by two women fucking and are turned off by their girlfriend being fucked by a man. And while girls also get upset when their boyfriends cheat on them--do you see them oogling and rubbing themselves the moment they see two gays giving each other anal? Do you, as a straight male, rub yourself when you see two guys having sex? Of course not. Our society doesn't teach us to think of males being sexual beings the way it teaches us to think of women as sexual beings. Men are conquerors and dominators. That is why we feel uncomfortable at the prospect of another man conquering our girlfriends. Why women get upset when their boyfriend conquers someone else. Because society teaches us that. Women also don't ever have to worry about their boyfriend showing up and asking permission if they could give some guy a blowjob. They already know that the rule is that straight men don't have sex with other men.
These are societal ultimatums. Societal and cultural rules that we live by. And I'm saying that these restrictions shouldn't be present. I'm saying that when your girl asks if she can have sex with another woman--that it shouldn't matter one bit how turned on you are, that you should be there for her and be supportive of her. And if she asks if she can have sex with another guy--to do very much the same thing and be supportive and communicative with her. Figure out why there is interest, why there is a need. Figure out what it is that she's looking for. Figure out what her deal is. Not simply say no just because you're uncomfortable with the idea. She deserves to be heard, not be watched and objectified like some lesbian porno. |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| Khrey United States. March 21 2012 10:57. Posts 34 | Profile # |
| A true partner wouldn't want that. If they did, then they don't care about your relationship. |
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| Djzapz Canada. March 21 2012 11:00. Posts 5866 | Profile Blog # |
You're digging too deep IMO lorkac. If the situation actually happened to me, of course it would be more complex - I'd wonder why she's interested in that and all kinds of stuff. But here I'm getting asked a simple question which I won't over-analyse. I'm fine with it.
Of course you can go in depth and speculate about why and everything, you can talk about the morality of it, you can gather statistics in 170 countries, you can always think about it and go further and further... Fact is, that's not what we're talking about - this is a small thread about a silly question with no real application for a vast majority of us. Let's not overcomplicate it - the shallow responses are normal.
On March 21 2012 10:57 Khrey wrote:
A true partner wouldn't want that. If they did, then they don't care about your relationship.
I'm getting so tired of that ignorant reaction. =_=
Again, not all relationships are monogamous. Polygamous relationships can be just as real.Last edit: 2012-03-21 11:02:08 |
| | "My incompetence with power tools had exponentially increased after 21 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners" |
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| lorkac United States. March 21 2012 11:10. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 11:00 Djzapz wrote:You're digging too deep IMO lorkac. If the situation actually happened to me, of course it would be more complex - I'd wonder why she's interested in that and all kinds of stuff. But here I'm getting asked a simple question which I won't over-analyse. I'm fine with it. Of course you can go in depth and speculate about why and everything, you can talk about the morality of it, you can gather statistics in 170 countries, you can always think about it and go further and further... Fact is, that's not what we're talking about - this is a small thread about a silly question with no real application for a vast majority of us. Let's not overcomplicate it - the shallow responses are normal.
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 10:57 Khrey wrote:
A true partner wouldn't want that. If they did, then they don't care about your relationship.
I'm getting so tired of that ignorant reaction. =_= Again, not all relationships are monogamous. Polygamous relationships can be just as real.
It's not really that deep.
When your significant other wants to have sex with someone--the conversation should be about her and not about you.
And in defense of Khrey--what we're talking about is not polygamy. I'm certain most people would not want another woman to move in with them no matter how hot a lady she is unless you go out and buy a bigger place, figure out rent, utilities, food, parking, etc.... ie, surprise polygamy is not an easy proposition to say yes to.
On the other hand--having automatic answers to social dynamics is bad whether it is excitement about lesbian sex or judgement against non-monogamy. |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| Scarecrow Korea (South). March 21 2012 11:15. Posts 4927 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 04:29 Mataza wrote:
the general tendency of men to prefer watching(a 'hunter' thing, as opposed to 'gatherer' from the ancient times).
-.- or maybe men just like watching multiple sets of breasts, no need to bring retarded pseudo-science into it |
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| ampson United States. March 21 2012 11:20. Posts 1884 | Profile Blog # |
| Depends on how serious the relationship is, who the outside person is, and other things. No real straight-up answer here. |
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| Djzapz Canada. March 21 2012 11:29. Posts 5866 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 11:10 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 11:00 Djzapz wrote:You're digging too deep IMO lorkac. If the situation actually happened to me, of course it would be more complex - I'd wonder why she's interested in that and all kinds of stuff. But here I'm getting asked a simple question which I won't over-analyse. I'm fine with it. Of course you can go in depth and speculate about why and everything, you can talk about the morality of it, you can gather statistics in 170 countries, you can always think about it and go further and further... Fact is, that's not what we're talking about - this is a small thread about a silly question with no real application for a vast majority of us. Let's not overcomplicate it - the shallow responses are normal.
On March 21 2012 10:57 Khrey wrote:
A true partner wouldn't want that. If they did, then they don't care about your relationship.
I'm getting so tired of that ignorant reaction. =_= Again, not all relationships are monogamous. Polygamous relationships can be just as real.
It's not really that deep. When your significant other wants to have sex with someone--the conversation should be about her and not about you.
No goober, it's about both, but that's irrelevant and I'll tell you why. First though, I'll tell you why this situation is about both. Provided we're starting from your regular, cookie-cutter western monogamous relationship in which there's an unwritten "monogamy" contract, the sexual activity of both parties is limited to those two people. Both people agree not to have sex with other people, but expect their partner not to have sex with other partners either. So if the girl decides to ask if she can break the monogamous relationship's terms, she has to ask. I have a say in this.
Here's why this doesn't matter though: "Would you let your partner have gay sex?" -OP
I'm answering the question, you're running around it. |
| | "My incompetence with power tools had exponentially increased after 21 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners" |
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| lorkac United States. March 21 2012 11:29. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 11:15 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 04:29 Mataza wrote:
the general tendency of men to prefer watching(a 'hunter' thing, as opposed to 'gatherer' from the ancient times).
-.- or maybe men just like watching multiple sets of breasts, no need to bring retarded pseudo-science into it
You do know that what he is talking about includes your statement of "men just like watching multiple sets of breasts."
The two of you even use the same word to describe the action... |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| lorkac United States. March 21 2012 11:44. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
On March 21 2012 11:29 Djzapz wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 11:10 lorkac wrote:
On March 21 2012 11:00 Djzapz wrote:You're digging too deep IMO lorkac. If the situation actually happened to me, of course it would be more complex - I'd wonder why she's interested in that and all kinds of stuff. But here I'm getting asked a simple question which I won't over-analyse. I'm fine with it. Of course you can go in depth and speculate about why and everything, you can talk about the morality of it, you can gather statistics in 170 countries, you can always think about it and go further and further... Fact is, that's not what we're talking about - this is a small thread about a silly question with no real application for a vast majority of us. Let's not overcomplicate it - the shallow responses are normal.
On March 21 2012 10:57 Khrey wrote:
A true partner wouldn't want that. If they did, then they don't care about your relationship.
I'm getting so tired of that ignorant reaction. =_= Again, not all relationships are monogamous. Polygamous relationships can be just as real.
It's not really that deep. When your significant other wants to have sex with someone--the conversation should be about her and not about you.
No goober, it's about both, but that's irrelevant and I'll tell you why. First though, I'll tell you why this situation is about both. Provided we're starting from your regular, cookie-cutter western monogamous relationship in which there's an unwritten "monogamy" contract, the sexual activity of both parties is limited to those two people. Both people agree not to have sex with other people, but expect their partner not to have sex with other partners either. So if the girl decides to ask if she can break the monogamous relationship's terms, she has to ask. I have a say in this. Here's why this doesn't matter though: "Would you let your partner have gay sex?" -OP I'm answering the question, you're running around it.
Actually, I have never ran around it. Here's what got me into this conversation.
The reason you think it's okay for her to have sex with women but feel threatened that she has sex with men is because you see men as people who are real and women as just an object to have sex with. Of course it makes sense to you that your girlfriend would be curious--everyone "should" want to have sex with women, that's their only role in society when you boil it down. But when another man has sex with your woman, suddenly its another human being touching and grabbing and penetrating your women, your object, your possession.
It's not competition--otherwise you'd be competitive with women to.
Nor is it just "jealousy" because you *could* and *should* be just as jealous when a woman tries to take your girl away from you. But since you don't really see women as people, why would your girlfriend ever run off with a vagina? Obviously you think a penis is good enough to satisfy your girlfriend far more than a vagina--why else would you feel uncomfortable when she has sex with another man's penis? Because you think that the male is superior.
Notice how do not disagree with your end decision of not letting her have sex with men, notice how I'm simply pointing out why it is that a male from a western culture would treat the desires of his partner in the way that you do. Notice how the subject of that post is only talking about why it is you feel uncomfortable with men touching your woman.
Notice how my argument is not that you should either automatically let her have sex with whomever or simply automatically say no to her. Notice how most of my arguments after this are about how you shouldn't be treating her desires of women differently than her desires of men. That if you trust her with women, you should be able to trust her with men and if you don't trust her with men then you shouldn't be able to trust her with women.
Notice how the focus is on trying to understand why she is or is not changing and not on giving you the power to decree who she can or cannot fuck. Notice how my first foray into this discussion is that you should, in essence, be consistent in whatever decision you make and be willing to follow through with it no matter the sex of the of the partner in question instead of simply being about how scared you are of other men stealing your woman.
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| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |
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| g0rthaur United States. March 21 2012 11:59. Posts 4 | Profile # |
Maybe this says a lot about my concepts of sexuality, but I don't feel threatened at all by a lady I have a relation with having a lesbian encounter. Maybe even a relationship. That being said, and I don't mean to be vulgar, but it also depends on what they do together. If they just perform cunnilingus on one another, I'm fine. Acts of penetration, I'm a little more concerned.
Now that I've written the above, I realize that if I were serious about the lady, I likely not approve at all. Not because of the sexual act exactly, but because if this is an issue there is likely something more serious going on that means our relationship is not going to work out. I mean, do I want someone like this to be in my family and help raise my kids? |
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| Focuspants Canada. March 21 2012 12:00. Posts 754 | Profile # |
On March 21 2012 04:21 lorkac wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 02:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On March 21 2012 02:31 Djzapz wrote:
On March 21 2012 00:39 lorkac wrote:
On March 20 2012 13:21 Kuja wrote:
On March 20 2012 00:27 zalz wrote:
On March 19 2012 23:37 red_ wrote:
I'm actually surprised by the negative reaction on this forum; I would've thought the idea of a somewhat open relationship would fly pretty well here. Not a judgement, just an observation, everyone is allowed to want the relationship they want, for lack of better phrasing.
TL is more conservative than the average population.
Please tell me thats sarcasm.
I've been arguing against people who think it is biologically and evolutionarilly okay to be possessive of girlfriends unless the girlfriend shares an extra vagina with you. You tell me how conservative TL is.
How on Earth could you think you just sampled TL with that? Come on. Be serious.
He's PMing me and I don't think he's ever read another TL thread... and I think his sample size is about three people.
This is not the first thread where I have had to defend the rights of women. It will also not be the last. Im not saying that TL is evil and supports right wing ideals--I'm simply saying that TL is a lot less liberal than it claims to be. Don't confuse "leaning conservative" with "supportive of right wing policy."
What you think youre arguing against, and what were saying are totally different. All I said is that it is natural for a straight male to get more jealous and threatened by another male being with their chick, than a female, because biologically, they are programmed to be protective, jealous, and view other men as a threat.
How does that make me a conservative in any way? I pointed out in my response that I wouldnt be okay with either gender getting with my female. I was just pointing out why those that said they are less threatened by females (whether this lessened threat is real or not) are not mysoginistic as you call them, rather that they are just viewing the situation from their heterosexual male brain, and nobody is being offended by that. You are illogical, and just go on off topic tyrades about issues we havent even brought up, or you change a scenario instead of looking at the one that was presented to try to promote some strange feminine agenda, with dreams of an androgenous world.
I am 100% liberal, in almost every way. My views in no way portray me as a conservative, you just dont know how to read. |
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