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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:27. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:23 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:18 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:14 Velr wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:12 Geiko wrote:
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is...
This is a lie, from Sarkozy. Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots. Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly. So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ? Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil  "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Imho: Steve Jobs and other "RICH" people don't deserve their money as long as people that work FULL TIME at their companies can't even support their family or grant them an "ok/decent" living standart. No, they don't deserve their money, they get rich because they exploit their employes and the state which has to support these guys because "Mr. Rich" is to cheap to pay them decently. These "rich guys" actually leech from the system because they are the ones that create the working poor that need additional support (which the same rich guys don't want to pay a fair amount of taxes for). Job creators? My ass. This was diffrent ~30 years ago, this has to change again.
Apple was nothing 15 years ago and would most likely have gone bankrupt without Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs brought that company to what it is today, a company that employs tens of thousands of people around the world. You complain that salaries aren't high enough. Maybe. But without him, some of the workers there wouldn't even have a job at all.
Yeah, because people would not loev "multimedia-stuff" apple creates if not for steve jobs. YEAH RIGHT... No one would have to produce this shit and no one would have had the idea.. YEAH RIGHT. And my argument wasn't even about Apple, no clue why you want to talk about that asshole of a company.
Saying YEAH RIGHT and using irony doesn't make what I said false and what you said true. Got anything constructive for me to answer to ? |
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| VyingsP France. May 02 2012 22:28. Posts 135 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:00 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:56 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
[quote]
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ?
Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
I have now clarified my meaning in the quoted post. The comparison was one of convenience only. My meaning was that the inheritor has done nothing to deserve riches. Whether or not they inherited money from someone who earned their wealth and created jobs does not have any bearing on whether they themselves have done so.
We can also turn this into an ideological debate instead of a political one if you want but I'm not sure that it fits the context of this thread. My question to you is: you inherite your genes from your parents, why shouldn't you inherite money. If you have beautiful parents, you'll most likely end up not too bad looking, did you deserve that ? Inequalities at birth are part of life, trying to reduce them to the extreme like what you are implying only puts more emphasis on the natural inequalities that already exists.
Whaaaa, Geiko is back in this thread, and he is in top form ! I would have loved to see him in 1789 explaining to the people in Paris :
"Cmon guys ! You don't know it yet but there are genes, and if you are beautiful, your children will most likely be so. So if you can inherit beauty, why wouldn't you inherit the status of your parents ? I mean, life is unfair, right ? Why would you try to change it ? Sure there are those people who are rich because their parents were, but, seriously is that a big deal ? Cmon guys ! And of course there has to be a King ! I mean, he is the son of the King, that's no small feat !"
+ Show Spoiler +-_- + Show Spoiler +Cmon guys ? Why are you aggressive all of a sudden ? Is that some part of the "pensée unique" ? You are so brainwashed... Nooooo, don't do this ! Noooooooooo |
| | Corrections of my bad english are much welcome | |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:30. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:25 Velr wrote:
I would like an example of a country where "the rich people fleed en mass" because taxes increased.
Please, enlighten me.
France for example.
You of all people should know, your countries proposes special "forfait fiscaux" to very rich people. Cantons do this because if they didn't, then the rich people would go pay less taxes somewhere else.
Look at the canton of geneva, 50% of all "aide sociales" are funded by 10 of the richest people in the canton paying their taxes living in cologny.
Don't act like you don't know this. |
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| Kerm France. May 02 2012 22:30. Posts 370 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:24 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:16 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:04 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:58 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:43 Geiko wrote:
You say that what put the greek down was Fiscal leaks. How is Hollande going to stop fiscal leaks when he is planning on raising taxes for rich people and thus favors the "évasion fiscale" ?
"La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes", you remember, if raising tax will increase fiscal leaks, then you're not patriotic and you assume to be a jerk to the country that made you rich in the first time. Sarkozy also said it would be normal to flee the country if tax raised, wtf would a president say that ? France is full of selfish bastards who would run away, and because non of the 47% are as rich, it means france is even full of wannabe selfish bastards, worse. Look at the americans, supporting the tax raise, this is patriotism. We are just Vichy.
It's funny because Hollande and sarkozy seem to agree on this point, more taxes will encourage fiscal evasion and people fleeing the country. Here's a video of Hollande explaining this http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=13309. Americans support more taxes because right now, rich people are only paying about 30% taxes on their revenues and they would be in favor of paying closer to 40 or 50% In France rich people already pay that much. Isn't paying more then half of what you make in taxes already patriotic enough ?
True patriots died for their country, when a person is earning 15.000€ a year or 1.5million, when you have to pay 40% of taxes, it means one will have 9000€ left while the rich will have 900.000€. Don't you think it could be fair to try and live with only 700.000€ a year ? Would it make a difference to the rich person? The point of raising tax is not to make the rich poor, it is just about asking some solidarity among the country of France, but it seems to hard for the french right-wing and its supporters. Let's just make a "soda tax" of one cent, it will cure the crisis...
This is turning more and more into an ideological debate and less and less about political choices for our country. François Hollande and Ségolène Royale each make 360 000€ per year. Do they need that much money to live ? This is a typical case of "faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais". Don't try to make this into something else then ideology because it's nothing more. Raising taxes for the extremely wealthy will have ZERO impact on taxe revenues, it's just a demagogical thing to say (Hollande even admitted to this). The only thing this will lead to is rich people fleeing France and paying less taxes in France.
You are confusing "demagogic" and "symbolic".
FYI, François Hollande will divide the President de la Republique income by 30 percent if he gets elected.
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| | What i know is that I know nothing - [http://twitter.com/UncleKerm] |
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| DOUDOU Wales. May 02 2012 22:31. Posts 2579 | Profile # |
please tell me more about this beauty gene
On May 02 2012 22:30 Kerm wrote:FYI, François Hollande will divide the President de la Republique income by 30 percent if he gets elected.
don't be so confident, he might have promised it, but as every single contender, he won't keep everyone of his promises
i've read an interesting article a while ago: "what if we forced president to apply everything they promised during their run to the presidency"
quite interesting, we would probably see much less demagogue resolutions if that were to happenLast edit: 2012-05-02 22:35:01 |
| | Feast | Grubby | Mvp | Polt | Fantasy | Last | MMA | forGG |Leenock | Soberphano |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:32. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:28 VyingsP wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:00 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:56 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
Well, that's not the problem.
Between
-"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and
-"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them,
there is a big difference.
So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot.
Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest.
Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
I have now clarified my meaning in the quoted post. The comparison was one of convenience only. My meaning was that the inheritor has done nothing to deserve riches. Whether or not they inherited money from someone who earned their wealth and created jobs does not have any bearing on whether they themselves have done so.
We can also turn this into an ideological debate instead of a political one if you want but I'm not sure that it fits the context of this thread. My question to you is: you inherite your genes from your parents, why shouldn't you inherite money. If you have beautiful parents, you'll most likely end up not too bad looking, did you deserve that ? Inequalities at birth are part of life, trying to reduce them to the extreme like what you are implying only puts more emphasis on the natural inequalities that already exists.
Whaaaa, Geiko is back in this thread, and he is in top form ! I would have loved to see him in 1789 explaining to the people in Paris : "Cmon guys ! You don't know it yet but there are genes, and if you are beautiful, your children will most likely be so. So if you can inherit beauty, why wouldn't you inherit the status of your parents ? I mean, life is unfair, right ? Why would you try to change it ? Sure there are those people who are rich because their parents were, but, seriously is that a big deal ? Cmon guys ! And of course there has to be a King ! I mean, he is the son of the King, that's no small feat !" + Show Spoiler +-_- + Show Spoiler +Cmon guys ? Why are you aggressive all of a sudden ? Is that some part of the "pensée unique" ? You are so brainwashed... Nooooo, don't do this ! Noooooooooo
Did you read my post about equality of rights ? Transmitting noblesse statutes has nothing to do with giving money you earned to your children.
I'd appreciate if we could have a serious discussion without willfully distorting other's words |
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| Microchaton France. May 02 2012 22:33. Posts 220 | Profile # |
| I wouldn't be surprised if he "divided it by 30 percent" indeed. Haha you made my day. And people would applaud too as long as they didn't get the final number. |
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| Faya France. May 02 2012 22:33. Posts 24 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:24 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:16 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:04 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:58 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:43 Geiko wrote:
You say that what put the greek down was Fiscal leaks. How is Hollande going to stop fiscal leaks when he is planning on raising taxes for rich people and thus favors the "évasion fiscale" ?
"La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes", you remember, if raising tax will increase fiscal leaks, then you're not patriotic and you assume to be a jerk to the country that made you rich in the first time. Sarkozy also said it would be normal to flee the country if tax raised, wtf would a president say that ? France is full of selfish bastards who would run away, and because non of the 47% are as rich, it means france is even full of wannabe selfish bastards, worse. Look at the americans, supporting the tax raise, this is patriotism. We are just Vichy.
It's funny because Hollande and sarkozy seem to agree on this point, more taxes will encourage fiscal evasion and people fleeing the country. Here's a video of Hollande explaining this http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=13309. Americans support more taxes because right now, rich people are only paying about 30% taxes on their revenues and they would be in favor of paying closer to 40 or 50% In France rich people already pay that much. Isn't paying more then half of what you make in taxes already patriotic enough ?
True patriots died for their country, when a person is earning 15.000€ a year or 1.5million, when you have to pay 40% of taxes, it means one will have 9000€ left while the rich will have 900.000€. Don't you think it could be fair to try and live with only 700.000€ a year ? Would it make a difference to the rich person? The point of raising tax is not to make the rich poor, it is just about asking some solidarity among the country of France, but it seems to hard for the french right-wing and its supporters. Let's just make a "soda tax" of one cent, it will cure the crisis...
This is turning more and more into an ideological debate and less and less about political choices for our country. François Hollande and Ségolène Royale each make 360 000€ per year. Do they need that much money to live ? This is a typical case of "faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais". Don't try to make this into something else then ideology because it's nothing more. Raising taxes for the extremely wealthy will have ZERO impact on taxe revenues, it's just a demagogical thing to say (Hollande even admitted to this). The only thing this will lead to is rich people fleeing France and paying less taxes in France.
How can you say it would have zero impact ? I have 10€, i take you 2, i will have 12, not 10. Maybe I'm talking to a kid that didn't go to school yet, therefore our debate is useless 'cause you can't vote.
And maybe we should talk about the salary of Hollande and Royal, because after all, this is the new way to make a debate, not talk about programs and ideology, but rather attack people's integrity. Why would they do something if nobody follow them, this is just foolish, let's see if they do what they say once the law settled. If they do not, then you will be right to accuse them, right now it's just stupid and prove your lack of arguments. |
| | You should ALWAYS get more drones |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:34. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:30 Kerm wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:24 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:16 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:04 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:58 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:43 Geiko wrote:
You say that what put the greek down was Fiscal leaks. How is Hollande going to stop fiscal leaks when he is planning on raising taxes for rich people and thus favors the "évasion fiscale" ?
"La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes", you remember, if raising tax will increase fiscal leaks, then you're not patriotic and you assume to be a jerk to the country that made you rich in the first time. Sarkozy also said it would be normal to flee the country if tax raised, wtf would a president say that ? France is full of selfish bastards who would run away, and because non of the 47% are as rich, it means france is even full of wannabe selfish bastards, worse. Look at the americans, supporting the tax raise, this is patriotism. We are just Vichy.
It's funny because Hollande and sarkozy seem to agree on this point, more taxes will encourage fiscal evasion and people fleeing the country. Here's a video of Hollande explaining this http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=13309. Americans support more taxes because right now, rich people are only paying about 30% taxes on their revenues and they would be in favor of paying closer to 40 or 50% In France rich people already pay that much. Isn't paying more then half of what you make in taxes already patriotic enough ?
True patriots died for their country, when a person is earning 15.000€ a year or 1.5million, when you have to pay 40% of taxes, it means one will have 9000€ left while the rich will have 900.000€. Don't you think it could be fair to try and live with only 700.000€ a year ? Would it make a difference to the rich person? The point of raising tax is not to make the rich poor, it is just about asking some solidarity among the country of France, but it seems to hard for the french right-wing and its supporters. Let's just make a "soda tax" of one cent, it will cure the crisis...
This is turning more and more into an ideological debate and less and less about political choices for our country. François Hollande and Ségolène Royale each make 360 000€ per year. Do they need that much money to live ? This is a typical case of "faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais". Don't try to make this into something else then ideology because it's nothing more. Raising taxes for the extremely wealthy will have ZERO impact on taxe revenues, it's just a demagogical thing to say (Hollande even admitted to this). The only thing this will lead to is rich people fleeing France and paying less taxes in France.
You are confusing "demagogic" and "symbolic". FYI, François Hollande will divide the President de la Republique income by 30 percent if he gets elected.
So he still agrees that a 70% increase in salary was necessary ? (+140% - 30% = +68%) |
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| mahO France. May 02 2012 22:34. Posts 268 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:12 Geiko wrote:
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is...
This is a lie, from Sarkozy. Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots. Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly. So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ? Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
Frankly, by very essence, you are a selfish, ignorant human being, trying to defend Sarkozy on all fronts here just because it fits your background, it fits what you want the world to be, even if it's light years from reality, your "ideal" world, which would make me vomit all day long.
It's true, rich people always, worked hard to get those millions, always, those garbage men, those cleaning ladies, those working men in construction, school teachers, people who serve your food, they are all so lazy, so lazy then even die younger, they must have slept too much during their lives man, that must be it, or maybe just natural selection.
I dont see a reason to argue with such a person, keep your money, it's true, your education, electricity, internet to your house (I guess its a nice one), the guy cleaning the street, the cop answering your call, and who knows, if someday you're in financial trouble, the people that will be willing to advise, and help you get back on your feet, all this, came from the sky, what a beautiful idea. In the end, you guys are dreamers.
Keep your money, because we're not from the same worldLast edit: 2012-05-02 22:36:27 |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:36. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:31 DOUDOU wrote:
please tell me more about this beauty gene
If your parents are good looking, chances are you'll be good looking yourself.
Out of all the things I said, you REALLY want to discuss this part ? The future of France isn't interesting enough ? |
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| Faya France. May 02 2012 22:38. Posts 24 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:33 Microchaton wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if he "divided it by 30 percent" indeed. Haha you made my day. And people would applaud too as long as they didn't get the final number.
He has been saying that so many times for 6 months now that he has to do it. Not only the president salary but also for the minister's salaries. This will be quite symbolic and you'll get the final numbers, it is the point of such annoucement. |
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| VyingsP France. May 02 2012 22:38. Posts 135 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:32 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:28 VyingsP wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:00 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:56 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:[quote] It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
I have now clarified my meaning in the quoted post. The comparison was one of convenience only. My meaning was that the inheritor has done nothing to deserve riches. Whether or not they inherited money from someone who earned their wealth and created jobs does not have any bearing on whether they themselves have done so.
We can also turn this into an ideological debate instead of a political one if you want but I'm not sure that it fits the context of this thread. My question to you is: you inherite your genes from your parents, why shouldn't you inherite money. If you have beautiful parents, you'll most likely end up not too bad looking, did you deserve that ? Inequalities at birth are part of life, trying to reduce them to the extreme like what you are implying only puts more emphasis on the natural inequalities that already exists.
Whaaaa, Geiko is back in this thread, and he is in top form ! I would have loved to see him in 1789 explaining to the people in Paris : "Cmon guys ! You don't know it yet but there are genes, and if you are beautiful, your children will most likely be so. So if you can inherit beauty, why wouldn't you inherit the status of your parents ? I mean, life is unfair, right ? Why would you try to change it ? Sure there are those people who are rich because their parents were, but, seriously is that a big deal ? Cmon guys ! And of course there has to be a King ! I mean, he is the son of the King, that's no small feat !" + Show Spoiler +-_- + Show Spoiler +Cmon guys ? Why are you aggressive all of a sudden ? Is that some part of the "pensée unique" ? You are so brainwashed... Nooooo, don't do this ! Noooooooooo
Did you read my post about equality of rights ? Transmitting noblesse statutes has nothing to do with giving money you earned to your children. I'd appreciate if we could have a serious discussion without willfully distorting other's words
I probably didn't read or understand your post, but how can you say : "Transmitting noblesse statutes has nothing to do with giving money you earned to your children" ?
You do realize that in our society money can buy you :
health (i hope this one is obvious)
rights (a good lawyer can make wonders)
social status
happiness (with some limitations obviously, but still, no money => unhappiness)
So, excuse me but I feel like I was extremely serious, even though I can't help but present it in an ironical form, sorry  |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:39. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:33 Faya wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:24 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:16 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:04 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:58 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:43 Geiko wrote:
You say that what put the greek down was Fiscal leaks. How is Hollande going to stop fiscal leaks when he is planning on raising taxes for rich people and thus favors the "évasion fiscale" ?
"La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes", you remember, if raising tax will increase fiscal leaks, then you're not patriotic and you assume to be a jerk to the country that made you rich in the first time. Sarkozy also said it would be normal to flee the country if tax raised, wtf would a president say that ? France is full of selfish bastards who would run away, and because non of the 47% are as rich, it means france is even full of wannabe selfish bastards, worse. Look at the americans, supporting the tax raise, this is patriotism. We are just Vichy.
It's funny because Hollande and sarkozy seem to agree on this point, more taxes will encourage fiscal evasion and people fleeing the country. Here's a video of Hollande explaining this http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=13309. Americans support more taxes because right now, rich people are only paying about 30% taxes on their revenues and they would be in favor of paying closer to 40 or 50% In France rich people already pay that much. Isn't paying more then half of what you make in taxes already patriotic enough ?
True patriots died for their country, when a person is earning 15.000€ a year or 1.5million, when you have to pay 40% of taxes, it means one will have 9000€ left while the rich will have 900.000€. Don't you think it could be fair to try and live with only 700.000€ a year ? Would it make a difference to the rich person? The point of raising tax is not to make the rich poor, it is just about asking some solidarity among the country of France, but it seems to hard for the french right-wing and its supporters. Let's just make a "soda tax" of one cent, it will cure the crisis...
This is turning more and more into an ideological debate and less and less about political choices for our country. François Hollande and Ségolène Royale each make 360 000€ per year. Do they need that much money to live ? This is a typical case of "faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais". Don't try to make this into something else then ideology because it's nothing more. Raising taxes for the extremely wealthy will have ZERO impact on taxe revenues, it's just a demagogical thing to say (Hollande even admitted to this). The only thing this will lead to is rich people fleeing France and paying less taxes in France.
How can you say it would have zero impact ? I have 10€, i take you 2, i will have 12, not 10. Maybe I'm talking to a kid that didn't go to school yet, therefore our debate is useless 'cause you can't vote. And maybe we should talk about the salary of Hollande and Royal, because after all, this is the new way to make a debate, not talk about programs and ideology, but rather attack people's integrity. Why would they do something if nobody follow them, this is just foolish, let's see if they do what they say once the law settled. If they do not, then you will be right to accuse them, right now it's just stupid and prove your lack of arguments.
Stop with insults please. I you must know, I have a higher education diploma in France. There, settled ?
I'm not the one saying this, françois hollande is saying this "it won't have any impact, it's more for the principle of it" is what he said.
People are talking about sarkozy's salary so I talk about Hollande's salary. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.
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| Velr Switzerland. May 02 2012 22:40. Posts 5100 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:30 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:25 Velr wrote:
I would like an example of a country where "the rich people fleed en mass" because taxes increased.
Please, enlighten me.
France for example. You of all people should know, your countries proposes special "forfait fiscaux" to very rich people. Cantons do this because if they didn't, then the rich people would go pay less taxes somewhere else. Look at the canton of geneva, 50% of all "aide sociales" are funded by 10 of the richest people in the canton paying their taxes living in cologny. Don't act like you don't know this.
Some rich people leave, but thats not the point.
Is there a country that is "worse" off after having increased the Taxes on the rich than before? By your logic Sweden (and others) should lie in shambles because their Tax rates are so high. But they are doing (extremly) well..
You of all people should know, your countries proposes special "forfait fiscaux" to very rich people. Cantons do this because if they didn't, then the rich people would go pay less taxes somewhere else.
True, sort of. Some cantons abandoned these practises (by popular vote) and it's a matter of time until all will do (imho).. Fun thing was, in some cantons the rich, taxed normally, still don't pay more than with the "flat" tax they paid befoer..
Oh, in the news there was some article recently, seems like the rich did not actually flee these cantons.. I wonder why...
Hint: Taxes are by far not the only thing that makes a place "worth living". |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:41. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:34 mahO wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
This is a lie, from Sarkozy.
Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots.
Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly.
So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ? Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
Frankly, by very essence, you are a selfish, ignorant human being, trying to defend Sarkozy on all fronts here just because it fits your background, it fits what you want the world to be, even if it's light years from reality, your "ideal" world, which would make me vomit all day long. It's true, rich people always, worked hard to get those millions, always, those garbage men, those cleaning ladies, those working men in construction, school teachers, people who serve your food, they are all so lazy, so lazy then even die younger, they must have slept too much during their lives man, that must be it, or maybe just natural selection. I dont see a reason to argue with such a person, keep your money, it's true, your education, electricity, internet to your house (I guess its a nice one), the guy cleaning the street, the cop answering your call, and who knows, if someday you're in financial trouble, the people that will be willing to advise, and help you get back on your feet, all this, came from the sky, what a beautiful idea. In the end, you guys are dreamers. Keep your money, because we're not from the same world
So much hate... I must be a terrible person for voting Sarkozy, I'm sorry :'(
If you wish to discuss specific points in the campaign, programs, or ideology, I'm always here if you feel like confronting your ideas. If you've given up on discussion, I can only leave you with these apologies for being such a terrible human being.
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| Eiaco May 02 2012 22:45. Posts 170 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:14 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:12 Geiko wrote:
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is...
This is a lie, from Sarkozy. Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots. Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly. So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ? Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Imho: Steve Jobs and other "RICH" people don't deserve their money as long as people that work FULL TIME at their companies can't even support their family or grant them an "ok/decent" living standart. No, they don't deserve their money, they get rich because they exploit their employes and the state which has to support these guys because "Mr. Rich" is to cheap to pay them decently. These "rich guys" actually leech from the system because they are the ones that create the working poor that need additional support (which the same rich guys don't want to pay a fair amount of taxes for). Job creators? My ass. This was diffrent ~30 years ago, this has to change again.
If you taxed Steve jobs 40% of his salary for the past 5 years, you would have made a total of $2. (He was on a $1 salary). |
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| Kapouais France. May 02 2012 22:47. Posts 4 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:34 mahO wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:38 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:26 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
This is a lie, from Sarkozy.
Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots.
Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly.
So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ? Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
Well, that's not the problem. Between -"On va leur faire les poches", meaning we need to tax lot more ultra rich people (just that you know, the average difference between top and lowest salaries in society of the CAC 40 has been multplied by 20 in thirty years) in a meeting, and -"Melenchon says that when you see a rich you have to "lui faire les poches"", meaning physically attack the rich and rob them, there is a big difference. So either you didn't listen to JLM and you repeated what Sarkozy says, and you just get manipulated like an idiot. Either you know that you are completely transforming a militant statement and you are being blatantly dishonest. Don't change the subject, I am talking about this precise sentence that you said.
It's a problem when you guys are telling me that left vs right is a battle of love vs hate (sic). Please don't resort to insults such as "idiot", I'm not trying to be aggressive, lets keep this civil "on va leur faire les poches" literally means in French: "we are going to rob them". The use of that sentence is not innocent by JLM and he knows very well this will exacerbate the Anti-Rich sentiment that he is basing his campaign on. Because believe or not, in France, making money is something you should be ashamed of. And btw, you still didn't address the second part of my previous post.
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous! I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money? Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
Frankly, by very essence, you are a selfish, ignorant human being, trying to defend Sarkozy on all fronts here just because it fits your background, it fits what you want the world to be, even if it's light years from reality, your "ideal" world, which would make me vomit all day long. It's true, rich people always, worked hard to get those millions, always, those garbage men, those cleaning ladies, those working men in construction, school teachers, people who serve your food, they are all so lazy, so lazy then even die younger, they must have slept too much during their lives man, that must be it, or maybe just natural selection. I dont see a reason to argue with such a person, keep your money, it's true, your education, electricity, internet to your house (I guess its a nice one), the guy cleaning the street, the cop answering your call, and who knows, if someday you're in financial trouble, the people that will be willing to advise, and help you get back on your feet, all this, came from the sky, what a beautiful idea. In the end, you guys are dreamers. Keep your money, because we're not from the same world
So according to you, this guy who went to school until 16 years, then clean the streets / deliver your pizza / press 1 button all day long in the subway, 35 hours per week, he DESERVEs as much as the guy who studied really hard during his whole youth, to become a doctor, an engineer, a pharmacist, or who created an enterprise (and therefore created jobs), and who is working 40-45 maybe 50 hours per week ? This is just disgusting to spit like that on the effort value, and tell "lazy" people to keep not doing anything, because people will, with socialism, work for them.
Of course I agree that there are some disguting cases (like footballers or CEO who earn waaay to much, because noone could spend that much money), but fixing this won't make poor people any more rich.
But bashing like that middle classes is really the worst and most disgusting thing to do, because they are the reason why the France is such a great country. |
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| Geiko France. May 02 2012 22:48. Posts 1602 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:38 VyingsP wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:32 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:28 VyingsP wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:00 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:56 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:48 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:44 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:26 darkshad30000 wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:20 -_-Quails wrote:
On May 02 2012 20:51 darkshad30000 wrote:
[quote]
I agree with you so much Geiko. In france, it's a shame to be rich. In france when you support Sarkozy you are a selfish, and when you support Hollande, you are generous!
I ask Melenchon's fan, why there isn't some Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in France? They are earning millions of dollars but how many jobs did they create? You think it's a shame they earn so much money?
Fortunetaly that there are rich people in France! I don't understand how people can be so agressive against rich! Most of the time they deserve their money
For every Steve Jobs there are half a dozen Paris Hiltons and a Madoff. Do they deserve their money?
Paris hilton is an heiress. This father (or grand father) create several thousand jobs! And madoff is a shame, but not all boss of CAC 40 are like him!
You don't get punished for the crimes of your forefathers, why should you profit from their success?
You've worked hard to win money, why should someone prevent you from using the way you see fit (giving it to children) ? Committing crimes is a personal issue, as well as doing good deeds (you don't inherite a legion of honor for example) Money is something you've earned and now posses and you are free to give it to anyone you want. Why are you comparing different things ?
I have now clarified my meaning in the quoted post. The comparison was one of convenience only. My meaning was that the inheritor has done nothing to deserve riches. Whether or not they inherited money from someone who earned their wealth and created jobs does not have any bearing on whether they themselves have done so.
We can also turn this into an ideological debate instead of a political one if you want but I'm not sure that it fits the context of this thread. My question to you is: you inherite your genes from your parents, why shouldn't you inherite money. If you have beautiful parents, you'll most likely end up not too bad looking, did you deserve that ? Inequalities at birth are part of life, trying to reduce them to the extreme like what you are implying only puts more emphasis on the natural inequalities that already exists.
Whaaaa, Geiko is back in this thread, and he is in top form ! I would have loved to see him in 1789 explaining to the people in Paris : "Cmon guys ! You don't know it yet but there are genes, and if you are beautiful, your children will most likely be so. So if you can inherit beauty, why wouldn't you inherit the status of your parents ? I mean, life is unfair, right ? Why would you try to change it ? Sure there are those people who are rich because their parents were, but, seriously is that a big deal ? Cmon guys ! And of course there has to be a King ! I mean, he is the son of the King, that's no small feat !" + Show Spoiler +-_- + Show Spoiler +Cmon guys ? Why are you aggressive all of a sudden ? Is that some part of the "pensée unique" ? You are so brainwashed... Nooooo, don't do this ! Noooooooooo
Did you read my post about equality of rights ? Transmitting noblesse statutes has nothing to do with giving money you earned to your children. I'd appreciate if we could have a serious discussion without willfully distorting other's words
I probably didn't read or understand your post, but how can you say : "Transmitting noblesse statutes has nothing to do with giving money you earned to your children" ? You do realize that in our society money can buy you : health (i hope this one is obvious) rights (a good lawyer can make wonders) social status happiness (with some limitations obviously, but still, no money => unhappiness) So, excuse me but I feel like I was extremely serious, even though I can't help but present it in an ironical form, sorry
Do you therefor not believe in the égalité des droits ?
I'll tell you why I believe our system is fine as it is without any more inheritance taxes. My grand parents came to this country with just their luggage. I come from a rather modest household but I have never been prevented from going to school and learning the same things like everybody else. Now I graduated from a school that most people in France would call "l'élite" (with a negative connotation of course) and I owe it all to my hard work and the fact that France gave me that opportunity. Of course some rich sons had access to private teachers, theaters every weekend and a better cultural background, but everyone in France still has the same rights and possibilites as everyone else. I don't see why we would need to confiscate more money from inheritance and I would love for you to tell me how much more you think we need.
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| Faya France. May 02 2012 22:49. Posts 24 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 22:39 Geiko wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 22:33 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:24 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:16 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 22:04 Geiko wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:58 Faya wrote:
On May 02 2012 21:43 Geiko wrote:
You say that what put the greek down was Fiscal leaks. How is Hollande going to stop fiscal leaks when he is planning on raising taxes for rich people and thus favors the "évasion fiscale" ?
"La France, tu l'aimes ou tu la quittes", you remember, if raising tax will increase fiscal leaks, then you're not patriotic and you assume to be a jerk to the country that made you rich in the first time. Sarkozy also said it would be normal to flee the country if tax raised, wtf would a president say that ? France is full of selfish bastards who would run away, and because non of the 47% are as rich, it means france is even full of wannabe selfish bastards, worse. Look at the americans, supporting the tax raise, this is patriotism. We are just Vichy.
It's funny because Hollande and sarkozy seem to agree on this point, more taxes will encourage fiscal evasion and people fleeing the country. Here's a video of Hollande explaining this http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=13309. Americans support more taxes because right now, rich people are only paying about 30% taxes on their revenues and they would be in favor of paying closer to 40 or 50% In France rich people already pay that much. Isn't paying more then half of what you make in taxes already patriotic enough ?
True patriots died for their country, when a person is earning 15.000€ a year or 1.5million, when you have to pay 40% of taxes, it means one will have 9000€ left while the rich will have 900.000€. Don't you think it could be fair to try and live with only 700.000€ a year ? Would it make a difference to the rich person? The point of raising tax is not to make the rich poor, it is just about asking some solidarity among the country of France, but it seems to hard for the french right-wing and its supporters. Let's just make a "soda tax" of one cent, it will cure the crisis...
This is turning more and more into an ideological debate and less and less about political choices for our country. François Hollande and Ségolène Royale each make 360 000€ per year. Do they need that much money to live ? This is a typical case of "faites ce que je dis, pas ce que je fais". Don't try to make this into something else then ideology because it's nothing more. Raising taxes for the extremely wealthy will have ZERO impact on taxe revenues, it's just a demagogical thing to say (Hollande even admitted to this). The only thing this will lead to is rich people fleeing France and paying less taxes in France.
How can you say it would have zero impact ? I have 10€, i take you 2, i will have 12, not 10. Maybe I'm talking to a kid that didn't go to school yet, therefore our debate is useless 'cause you can't vote. And maybe we should talk about the salary of Hollande and Royal, because after all, this is the new way to make a debate, not talk about programs and ideology, but rather attack people's integrity. Why would they do something if nobody follow them, this is just foolish, let's see if they do what they say once the law settled. If they do not, then you will be right to accuse them, right now it's just stupid and prove your lack of arguments.
Stop with insults please. I you must know, I have a higher education diploma in France. There, settled ? I'm not the one saying this, françois hollande is saying this "it won't have any impact, it's more for the principle of it" is what he said. People are talking about sarkozy's salary so I talk about Hollande's salary. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.
Yeah, i wasn't insulting, i was wondering who i was talking to, thats' it. Hollade said it would have no impact on the debt, not no effect at all. Measurements taken to bring back the growth will need money, found in such tax raises. Get it? Sarkozy's main idea is that doing socialist stuff like creating public jobs or raising salary will indubitably (yes i just used that word) increase the global debt.
However, raising tax (to the richest) will even earnings and spendings, intelligent spendings, which will make a growth.
But you can't understand that, because as maHo says, we're not from the same world. Keep your money and have fun in another country where you will pay less tax. And because you probably don't have the money you wish you had (people above a million euros per year are 0.02% in France), stay in France, and vote for Coppé in 2017. |
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