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| miicah Australia. April 17 2012 09:55. Posts 267 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 09:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 09:26 Inschato wrote:
Which basically means that in order for the game to have replay support at a professionally acceptable level, you'd have to download the replay from the server after the game. No doubt recording every detail of the game server side adds a not insignificant load to the server and they're still busy busy optimizing or whatever it is their programmers actually do for their money.
I don't think it's a server load problem. If I remember correctly it's more of a coding/client issue. I know DotA2 basically does what you described for their replay system and it's not really an issue. The problem with LoL replays is that the LoL client is shitty.
I'm pretty sure Dota2 uses the source engine, which means you can record demos client side with ease. I know in TF2 you don't get information from the other side of the map with demos but you get most of the important stuff.
Also they use STV (source TV) to broadcast games for people to watch, so while yes it is a server side thing it's much less resource intensive than having 500 specs in a game. |
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| Craton United States. April 17 2012 09:58. Posts 10178 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 09:38 Juicyfruit wrote:
so the only real loss from ditching philo is that once every 2-3-clears you'll be recalling and running back to wolves instead of going back to wolves directly, bearing in mind that you are picking your recall timing carefully and compensating for running out of steam at a bad time with potions.
No, that's not the case at all. You don't sit in the jungle afk farming back and forth for minutes at a time. You clear once or even half of once and then you go gank or counter-jungle. The issue is rarely (almost never) an issue that you're too weak to keep clearing the jungle, but that you have too little hp or mana to clear and then go gank, counter-gank, or contest an objective. You're useless to a lane when you're running around at 20% hp/mp, even though you could easily keep clearing.
Philo stone is worth an HP pot every 42 seconds and a mana potion every 63 seconds. Shurelya's is worth an hp pot every 25 seconds and a mana pot every 34 seconds. That's just the regen. Having more mp5 means you can use more mana on creeps, which in turn means you kill them faster, which in turn means you take less damage. That leaves you needing less HP regen (potions or otherwise) and means you are strong enough for fights more frequently.
I don't even get what you guys are arguing against at this point. Philo is too good and builds into too good of an item to skip on a lot of junglers. At the same time, it's not OP either. It just fits a niche a lot of junglers need.Last edit: 2012-04-17 09:58:33 |
| | jeongmal kkeutnangeongayo (mari eoptneyo) eonjena geuraetjyo || LoL 2350+ Jungler || KPop: http://cratonz.minus.com/uploads |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. April 17 2012 10:02. Posts 3477 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 09:58 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 09:38 Juicyfruit wrote:
so the only real loss from ditching philo is that once every 2-3-clears you'll be recalling and running back to wolves instead of going back to wolves directly, bearing in mind that you are picking your recall timing carefully and compensating for running out of steam at a bad time with potions.
No, that's not the case at all. You don't sit in the jungle afk farming back and forth for minutes at a time. You clear once or even half of once and then you go gank or counter-jungle. The issue is rarely (almost never) an issue that you're too weak to keep clearing the jungle, but that you have too little hp or mana to clear and then go gank, counter-gank, or contest an objective. You're useless to a lane when you're running around at 20% hp/mp, even though you could easily keep clearing. Philo stone is worth an HP pot every 42 seconds and a mana potion every 63 seconds. Shurelya's is worth an hp pot every 25 seconds and a mana pot every 34 seconds. That's just the regen. Having more mp5 means you can use more mana on creeps, which in turn means you kill them faster, which in turn means you take less damage. That leaves you needing less HP regen (potions or otherwise) and means you are strong enough for fights more frequently. I don't even get what you guys are arguing against at this point. Philo is too good and builds into too good of an item to skip on a lot of junglers. At the same time, it's not OP either. It just fits a niche a lot of junglers need.
We're arguing whether philo should be built if shurelyas didn't exist. If you didn't buy philo you'd be buying a completely different item, and that item would likely be beneficial to jungling as well.
But I think people might be a little confused as to why I hate philo stone so much. I hate it because I have to build it every game on support by necessity, and it instantly makes me weak as shit after I buy it. Last edit: 2012-04-17 10:08:03 |
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| Craton United States. April 17 2012 10:18. Posts 10178 | Profile Blog # |
You don't have to. Faerie > HoG > kill lots of shit for big $$$.
Is it possible to change the order of teams in your profile or is it always by e.g. date established.Last edit: 2012-04-17 10:20:57 |
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 TheYango United States. April 17 2012 10:20. Posts 15760 | Profile # |
| Obviously the way to go is to turn that Faerie Charm into Tiamat later. |
| | Tongfu icon until xiao8's back on a ganker role. |
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| Chiharu Harukaze April 17 2012 10:28. Posts 6455 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 09:13 Kenpachi wrote:
has there ever been prominent hacks in this game? its surprisingly clean for the biggest game atm
While this is not a question I can answer fully, the game is not 100% hack proof depending on how you define a hack.
If you mean accessing locked skins, then yes, you can "hack" yourself a skin. This just uses the mod functionality that Riot lets people use, where you just mod yourself the skin package. However, the skin will only appear locally and not to any other player so it's not really a hack. Just a skin mod.
If you mean map-hacking SC2 style, then no. Blizzard uses client-side validation (which is incredibly stupid). This means that all data is sent to each player's client and validated by the clients. Map hacks in SC2 just take the incoming data and reveal it all to you, bypassing the filter your client has. Because of client-side validation, this is also how the "Results Differ!" tie-hack works. If you lose a game, you modify the out-going packets to say you didn't lose, and then the Blizzard Server doesn't know what to do and doesn't award a loss to anyone and ignores the game. Similar things occur in fps games with wall hacks, as the hack will pick up on player data and let you shoot at them, filtering out the wall data.
LoL on the other hand handles everything server side. While this places additional stress on the server because it has to process everything, it does mean that it's much more hack resilient. Even if you were to say, hack away the FoW you still wouldn't see anything because you client didn't get any data to put there. If there's ever a dispute with what your client and what the game engine server says, the server should overwrite any objections. That's why you can't hack free dps or antistealth. And if you really want to mess with packets... Well, it's going to be much easier to detect and if they catch you, your account is going to get nuked very hard. And that's all I can say.
On April 17 2012 09:24 Ryuu314 wrote:
altho if I remember correctly, there was a period of time when someone figured out how to manipulate the client so that you could zoom out further than normally possible using a third-party program. that was stopped in like a week or two and I think it was a bannable offense if you used the exploit/program after Riot came out and said you're not supposed to.
This is not exactly a hack. It uses an FXAA injection to render your field of view differently. That said however, it still requires a third party program and it goes against the ToS and is not approved by Riot Games.
On a similar note, LoL Recorder is a third party program, but does not interfere with the packets themselves and was tested and cleared by the game engineers. So that's allowed in its current form.
On April 17 2012 09:26 Inschato wrote:
Which basically means that in order for the game to have replay support at a professionally acceptable level, you'd have to download the replay from the server after the game. No doubt recording every detail of the game server side adds a not insignificant load to the server and they're still busy busy optimizing or whatever it is their programmers actually do for their money.
Hm. Replays are a very interesting topic actually. One of the main things holding replays back actually is Spectator Mode. As you're well aware, Spec Mode is still in beta. There are quite a few improvements that need to be made. Spec Mode is actually the first step to replays, and the current spec mode should give an indication what replays might look like.
Last edit: 2012-04-17 10:29:42 |
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| Zdrastochye United States. April 17 2012 10:57. Posts 1728 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 10:20 TheYango wrote:
Obviously the way to go is to turn that Faerie Charm into Tiamat later.
Mana manipulator Riven. |
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| Treadmill Canada. April 17 2012 11:04. Posts 2116 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 10:57 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 10:20 TheYango wrote:
Obviously the way to go is to turn that Faerie Charm into Tiamat later.
Mana manipulator Riven.
Well it does give her INFINITY MORE mana regen, so that has to be good right? |
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| Amui Canada. April 17 2012 11:07. Posts 3134 | Profile Blog # |
Fake TOO: You get aegis, I'm going damage shit"
WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH TOO? |
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 Praetorial United States. April 17 2012 11:18. Posts 3631 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 11:07 Amui wrote:
Fake TOO: You get aegis, I'm going damage shit"
WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH TOO?
Did he insult his teammate? And blame him for a death?
Yep, it's TOO. |
| | FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods! |
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| Two_DoWn United States. April 17 2012 11:33. Posts 7269 | Profile Blog # |
K Riven is officially my new favorite jungler.
Half because she clears at Mundo speed, the rest because you get to play her Froggen style: build whatever the fuck you want, dominate. So long as it has ad, she is happy. |
| | Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war~ |
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| Slusher United States. April 17 2012 12:04. Posts 2442 | Profile Blog # |
| argument started because I said I hate when jungles(specifically skarner) sit on Philo stone for too long, and ut led to 3 pages of people agreeing but presenting it as an argument Last edit: 2012-04-17 12:06:19 |
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| overt United States. April 17 2012 12:08. Posts 3978 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 09:55 miicah wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 09:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
On April 17 2012 09:26 Inschato wrote:
Which basically means that in order for the game to have replay support at a professionally acceptable level, you'd have to download the replay from the server after the game. No doubt recording every detail of the game server side adds a not insignificant load to the server and they're still busy busy optimizing or whatever it is their programmers actually do for their money.
I don't think it's a server load problem. If I remember correctly it's more of a coding/client issue. I know DotA2 basically does what you described for their replay system and it's not really an issue. The problem with LoL replays is that the LoL client is shitty.
I'm pretty sure Dota2 uses the source engine, which means you can record demos client side with ease. I know in TF2 you don't get information from the other side of the map with demos but you get most of the important stuff. Also they use STV (source TV) to broadcast games for people to watch, so while yes it is a server side thing it's much less resource intensive than having 500 specs in a game.
STV can also be used to record a match server side in TF2. So I'm going to assume you could use STV to record DotA2 games server side. I don't know if this is true though as I still haven't gotten a beta key for DotA2.
Also your STV only takes up one slot on a server in other Valve games and viewers watch the STV from a completely different server. So live specing matches doesn't strain the server where your game is going on much at all. Honestly STV and the SourceEngine are two really big reasons why the competitive future for DotA2 looks incredibly bright.
I kind of wish that Riot would just try and copy/paste elements from Valve's games to get their replay system working. Easiest way to record games and watch match demos/live matches I've ever seen was through Valve titles. |
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| HazMat United States. April 17 2012 12:12. Posts 9197 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 11:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
K Riven is officially my new favorite jungler.
Half because she clears at Mundo speed, the rest because you get to play her Froggen style: build whatever the fuck you want, dominate. So long as it has ad, she is happy.
^
And it's op. So that helps. |
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| ManyCookies April 17 2012 12:18. Posts 627 | Profile # |
I liked jungle Riven before it was cool 
More specifically, I loved it before the jungle remake. Those level 2 1:55 ganks were absolutely terrifying, arguably better than Lee Sin's. |
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| zodde Sweden. April 17 2012 12:24. Posts 786 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 12:18 ManyCookies wrote:I liked jungle Riven before it was cool More specifically, I loved it before the jungle remake. Those level 2 1:55 ganks were absolutely terrifying, arguably better than Lee Sin's.
Level 2 at 1:55? :O |
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| Praetorial United States. April 17 2012 12:36. Posts 3631 | Profile Blog # |
| Has there been any news on hecarim patch? |
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| GARO United States. April 17 2012 12:44. Posts 1574 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 12:24 zodde wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 12:18 ManyCookies wrote:I liked jungle Riven before it was cool More specifically, I loved it before the jungle remake. Those level 2 1:55 ganks were absolutely terrifying, arguably better than Lee Sin's.
Level 2 at 1:55? :O
Old small golems?
Lee/Xin used to be able to do this effectively too back then?Last edit: 2012-04-17 12:46:39 |
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| zodde Sweden. April 17 2012 12:47. Posts 786 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 12:44 GARO wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 12:24 zodde wrote:
On April 17 2012 12:18 ManyCookies wrote:I liked jungle Riven before it was cool More specifically, I loved it before the jungle remake. Those level 2 1:55 ganks were absolutely terrifying, arguably better than Lee Sin's.
Level 2 at 1:55? :O
Old small golems? Lee/Xin used to be able to do this too?
Oh yeah I'm retarded sorry. Funny how fast you forget shit like that. |
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| ManyCookies April 17 2012 12:48. Posts 627 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 12:36 Praetorial wrote:
Has there been any news on hecarim patch?
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=23268160#23268160
No patch tonight. We are still addressing a couple of issues, but you can test the latest version on the PBE. I edited the op to add this update.
The phrasing (specifically mentioning tonight, rather than a general "soon") implies the patch should be out soon, barring complications. Last edit: 2012-04-17 12:51:31 |
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