If so, /in.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IX
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
If so, /in. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
On March 21 2012 02:17 GMarshal wrote: You were the bodyguard in insane mafia! And yes, you have around 3 games played, but its been so long that I'll let you play Nah, I was the person that made Insane Mafia . But thanks, yay! | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On March 21 2012 08:04 GMarshal wrote: As soon as I have full signups I'll start the game. If it fills up after tomorrow it probably won't start before Monday, as I'll be at MLG. Ooh, have fun there! | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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This is my third or fourth game of TL Mafia, I've organized Insane Mafia before which was an absolutely insane game and a ton of fun. I'm also pro lynching someone on day 1 as lynches are the only reliable way to kill mafia. We don't know if there's a vigilante in the game, but I don't think we can count on it. We should also treat any roleclaims with suspicion. Don't blindly follow anyone that claims, or anyone that makes long posts. Think for yourself and don't jump on bandwagons. From what I've seen in other games this is generally what kills towns. Mafia is by definition more organized so they're better at bandwagoning, though a smart mafia will never have everyone voting on one person. However, if there's any risk of a mafia getting lynched they'll normally switch their votes off so anyone that switches votes at the last minute should be viewed with suspicion. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
On March 23 2012 05:24 Rise Of Fenix wrote: Day one lynching is always a solid plan to move foreward, but no real tells are showing thus far. I will likely post my thoughts about 1 hour before the deadline. But not lynching anyone only benefits the scum. Why would you not post your thoughts now instead of one hour before the deadline? We could actually discuss them if you post it now, there's no reason not to. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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On March 22 2012 14:55 Seviro wrote: I just noticed it had started and now I'm going to bed so I can't speak much now. I'll come back tomorrow to participate more. It's my second game myself (SNMMVIII, perfect win for mafia and I was among the last survivor, yay!) Introductory post. Pretty much no content other than saying he'll post again later. On March 23 2012 03:50 Seviro wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2012 23:42 BlueyD wrote: People I consider to be lurkers right now, until further notice: Seviro (one useless post, but he's there) Rise of Fenix (one useless post calling me a townie for posting first, I want his opinion on day 1 lynching) Ninja4Ever (he did say he would post later) No one is entirely inactive, but most people seem to agree to lynch a lurker day 1. This means we have to start thinking about who to lynch if there's no convenient lurker. On Gossemer's early vote for Mementoss: He was q My post wasn't useless, I had to post something before going to bed and I can't post while i'm asleep sorry . As for the lurker lynch we should really put pressure on this, as Mementoss and Nova said, last game all three scums were very active and it was easy for them to control the flow of the game. It is useless to have the number advantage if half of the town only post once in a while just to make sure they are not modkilled. If you look at last day of last game (SNMMVIII) we were 5 town/3 scums and in one day we lynched a townie and 2 others got modkilled, and one of the lurkers was a Blue. This overall inactivity was a good part of why we lose the game since every lurker that we targetted flipped town. That said we should put pressure on lurker but not lynch them to fast because last game's situation will happen again and we will die horribly. Wants to pressure for lurker lynch when this is pretty much established in town, the whole paragraph goes on about how lurking is bad which has pretty much been established already. Somewhat defends lurkers in the same post which is odd. On March 23 2012 06:07 Seviro wrote: Pretty much what froggy said, last game we didn't really pressure them as much, yes we were talking a lot about lynching them but as soon as they posted like 1 or 2 post we were ok and were going on another subject. If we are talking about something, we need to have the opinion of everyone. I'll take Eleanthas of last game as an example, everytime he posted something he was completely ignoring the discussion that was going on, that should not happen. And about Rise, posting your thought about 1 hour before the deadline is possibly the more scummy thing you could do as the deadline is relatively late and a lot of people are not around at the time. Voting at this time is basically a ninja vote and it is not right to do so since, as Nova said we wouldn't have enough time to discuss about it and change our vote if need be. Agrees with another townie to gain cred, this is a trend in Seviro's posts; rarely comes up with any own ideas and mostly agrees with other townies to 'blend in'. Also jumps on the against the 1 hour bandwagon which is fairly obvious. Long post basically stating the obvious and agreeing with other people. On March 23 2012 06:31 Seviro wrote: I'm okay with 6 but I'd like 8 more. 6 feel kind of short. Nothing of real worth here. On March 23 2012 07:58 Seviro wrote: there's no haste to vote yet, it's just that you said you would wait about and hour before the deadline before your vote, which is really late. It will be best for everyone if we say something like 8 to 6 hour before the deadline we should post what is our vote at that moment. At this point we can discuss and see what would be the best for the town. If at the time of the "soft" deadline you have no one that you think is more suspicious than the other you can always vote for no-lynch and change your vote later. These are exactly the type of contributions that scum is fine with doing, as they don't really 'help' the town in any way. The Rise of Fenix train is going nicely, which if he's just a bad townie is fine for mafia. On March 23 2012 08:05 Seviro wrote: It depends, on day 1 it is bad since we have no informations whatsoever if we don'T lynch someone, but later in the game a no lynch can be better than a mislynch. It does seems scummy but at time it can be good (rarely tho). But my point was not to no lynch, it was that you can vote no-lynch like 6-8 hour before the deadline if you don't know who to vote for and then with the discussion that follow you can make up your mind. Are you suddenly suggesting to no lynch? We've pretty much all agreed that not lynching day 1 is bad because of lack of information. People should vote on suspicion regardless. On March 23 2012 08:10 Seviro wrote: EBWOP, If we agree that everyone should have a vote posted at a set time before the deadline (since no one disagreed right now let's say 8 to 6 hour) we can then make a better choice for the lynch of this day and if someone fail to do so then he is most likely to be proposed as a lunch candidate. But now I think everyone should post what are their thought about that, if they agree etc. If we want to be able to win this, we need to work together and to not let 1 or 2 people take the control of the town. Continuing on with something that really isn't that crucial and if people agree to 8 hours instead of 6 there's nothing groundbreaking that will be decided. Based on all these posts that pretty much say nothing at all and seem to want to blend in most of all which seems like scum behaviour to me, though it's just a suspicion, I'm voting for Seviro for now. At worst it'll spark some more discussion. ##Vote Seviro | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
##Vote: Seviro | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On March 24 2012 01:43 Mementoss wrote: @Nova_Terra, I know you were just stating your opinion on the case, but I don't necessarily think that is a good thing to do right away. It allows the accused to just slide by without defending their own asses, if a couple people just stick up for them. It's more interesting/can give a lot of information to see the player defend themselves/how they do it. If you come in first they can just re-write what you said in a different way. Even if the case doesn't seem the strongest in your thoughts, if it gets discredited by people other than the accused, the accused loses all pressure, and pressure = information/scum slips. Here is the most interesting part of the case in my opinion: Note the bolded/underlined, its both because its a very big mistake. A very big scum slip. Why is it such a huge deal? Because we have no clue if Nova_Terra is town. AT ALL. Here are the possibilities: 1) He is scum, he knows peoples roles, therefore he knows Nova_Terra is town. Slipped it by mistake. 2) He is scum, Nova_Terra is scum, he is quick to give the idea to the rest that Nova is confirmed town, when there is no proof behind it. Just saying it because Nova is active. 3) He is town, bad town play, making assumptions that lead to town not exploring all the possibilities, getting tunnelled away from someone (See me as mafia SNMM VIII) Dat scum slip Oops, yeah that looks bad. That was a bad town play. What I meant was someone making a play that is obviously town favored. I worded it poorly. I believe it's a slip that both townies and scum can make with little effort though. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On March 24 2012 02:20 Nova_Terra wrote: Artanis, can you tell me your thoughts on Rise of Fenix? if it came down between him and a lurker, who would you rather lynch and why? Rise of Fenix to me seems like someone who just is very new to Mafia and isn't sure where to go. He tries to explore options but does so in an extremely clumsy manner. His one hour before the lynch voting thing smells scummy but I have this feeling he's just a confused townie whom is very easy to be made to look bad. I don't think Mafia will be making these kinds of gaping misplays so I'm looking for something more subtle, like I did in my analysis. On March 24 2012 02:33 Ninja4ever. wrote: 2°) Artosis on Seviro Artosis? :/ I don’t find your analysis based on strong enough evidences to warrant a lynch, your main argument being he posted too much redondancy and too little content, am I right ? Too me this is kinda natural when you have so few information, and it looks like every thing has been pretty much said. If you have little information and everything has already been said, you could agree with someone in a single line instead of making a giant post that basically says "I agree". Mafia gains by having the thread cluttered up with lots of useless information as it throws town off. I think that's a lot more telling than "scum slips" which are usually just typos. You could be trying to gain credit as a mafia and could also be a mafia that doesn’t want to look like he’s jumping on the Fenix wagon. By posting this analys you’d be killing two birds with one stone. As I said though, this is only really slight suspicion (around 55-45 mafia-townie, in my eyes) and even I is more suspicous at the moment, given my inactivity on the past couple days. WIFOM argument, I could be a townie just trying to get some analysis done to move the town forward too by posting some actual discussion. If posting analysis on a player now makes you suspicious just because you're posting analysis rather than it's contents, I don't think this town is going to go forward much, and that you find that suspicious is something I find suspicious. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
On March 24 2012 03:10 Seviro wrote: I already answered what I meant by that, pressuring and lynching are two different thing. Pressuring is forcing them to post by asking them directly their opinion on a subject so that we can more precisely find who is scum and who is not. A scum under pressure is most likely to post than a town in my opinion. If you already indicate all you want to do is pressure and you want to "pressure" lurkers yet are unwilling to go through with the lynching, then there is no real pressure to speak of. They can be silent and you'd still refuse to lynch them is what I'm getting out of this. Ok, so I can't agree with anyone that's what you're saying? I mean I wasn'T online after Nova question and Froggy kind of answered him in my place and I just pointed out that it was indeed what I meant. You're welcome to agree with people, but you didn't expand on anything while filling up a post that really said nothing but "I agree", in effect cluttering up the thread. I must say that I skipped over froggy's post though when searching for your posts. He did put it nicely. On March 23 2012 04:54 froggynoddy wrote: What I have been saying (and I think what Seviro is saying), is to be able to analyse behaviour you need to get actions and reactions from people. The analysis then has to be correct in of itself. The decision to lynch should therefore be based on 1. information (gathered by pressuring, amongst other ways) 2. Correct analysis. But without 1. we shall never be able to do 2. And therefore any decisions to lynch will be less strong. Ok, so now I'm suspicious because i'm not badwagonning? I don'T really see your point here. What? In this post, you WERE bandwagoning. The train to lynch Rise of Fenix was going nicely, and if you're scum and he's not then it's beneficial to ride the train to his destruction. Way to miss the point, I won't bother explaining again since what you quoted was clear and you just seem to want to make me look scummy by making me say what I didn'T say. Chainsaw arguments are great. You're suggesting that a no lynch can be fine past day 1 and of course a mislynch will be worse then a no lynch. Problem is you don't know if it'll be a mislynch beforehand, and every day you don't lynch someone is a day that mafia can kill someone. The only time a no lynch is really a good idea is during mylo. It is not that crucial but if we can come up with something like this we will be a lot more organized and will have time to discuss all the votes before the actual deadline. Once again I explained it very well. Whether people vote 6 or 8 hours before the deadline really isn't that important. It's nothing to condemn anyone over but I don't consider it a valuable post by any means, 6 hours would've done the same job. Now that you put yourself on the stage, let's take a look at you. Gladly. Introductory post, little content else than the obvious and some WIFOM toward the end I explained my background which was asked of me and gave some clues regarding what the mafia might and might not do. You could consider it WIFOM, but I do think it's very likely that the mafia isn't stupid enough to vote on one person. Just trying to make sure everyone has their thinking caps on. + Show Spoiler + On March 23 2012 05:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Why would you not post your thoughts now instead of one hour before the deadline? We could actually discuss them if you post it now, there's no reason not to. On of the first to tell what everyone else will say after. (People can have the same opinion, it'S not necessary badwagonning) I was one of the first to say this and I think it was a neccesary thing to say. It is a scummy action and we need that information as soon as possible. It's in no spam or detrimental to town. I agree that my posts are kind of long but just because you are missing every point that I make it doesn't mean that I have no content. All points you've made have been repeats of what other people have said, other than wanting to have 8 instead of 6 hours. You're not making any points, you're repeating those of others. This defense is not valid as it is only WIFOM. (It's a newbie game after all) A defense is as valid as likely as you believe it to be. Mafia's advantage is in organisation, not using that organisation would just be silly. There's a line between WIFOM and common sense, and I think this goes into the common sense department. Now I hate to do that, but I need to vote on you for now. In your case on me you were purposely (or not) missing all my point to make me look scummy and that for me is a lot more scummy. so for now ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] Eh, okay, but I think your reasoning is weak for it and I don't think you've made any real points of your own whereas I have. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
On March 24 2012 05:08 michaelthe wrote: I was 100% ready to come and vote for sc2system. He essentially had zero content in a few filler posts. Then he voted on a bandwagon without activity. BUT the slip from Artanis[Xp] is too severe. Mementoss pointed it out, but it is worth repeating: 1. ONLY scum know who the townies are. This is a simply point, they know who is mafia, therefore they know who isnt mafia. Even if a DT checks someone, the person could have been framed, or the miller, or the GF or whatever. The ONLY way to know someone is town is TO BE mafia. 2. To call this a newbie mistake I think is incorrect. Freudian slip is more likely. There is a natural hesitation in everyone's mind as they play this game. To post with certainty that someone is a Town, even in 3 words, is a massive slip. 3. His only defense is "oops, my bad, scum slips dont happen since I would vet every post". Doesn't convince me. If this were true, 90% of scum slips wouldn't happen! This is too severe to overlook! sc2system is a good lynch, I still don't think Fenix is a great lynch, but Artanis is the clear day1 lynch in my mind! ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] I already added that what I meant with town was the entirety of everyone playing, that includes citizens and mafia. I misspoke which was a slip, and is easily done by both mafia and town. Lynching someone on a slip rather than solid analysis seems silly to me, though that's easy to say being on the chopping block and all. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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RoF seems to be willing to try stuff, sc2system hasn't provided us with anything as far as I can see. However, due to no one coming to his defense I don't think we'd gain much information out of a lynch of sc2system either. There's been some soft defenses on Rise of Fenix which could give us more leads if he's red, therefore, ##Unvote: Seviro ##Vote: Rise of Fenix | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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On March 24 2012 05:44 Seviro wrote: Here is the said post Where in the world do you see in this post that I am following the Rise Of Fenix train? Hell i'm like the only one that is trying to defend him. Didn't respond to this yet, but I believe I misread it the first time. You're right that you didn't join the train; you didn't pick a side. Apologies for faulty analysis on this part. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12911 Posts
On March 25 2012 05:26 BlueyD wrote: Rise's behavior is less suspicious since the excuse that he's not very bright at all works pretty well for everything he's done. sc2system's behavior, meanwhile, just looked chaotic for no reason. Do I have to even mention he voted for someone saying "ok if you say so" as the only explanation? This I find weak. The same excuse used for Rise can be used for sc2system with little effort. He doesn't seem to be thinking about his posts much either so if you're going to use that excuse for Rise, it'd apply to sc2system as well. The overarching 'taking leadership without many contributions' theme didn't sit well with me either when I was rereading the thread here. | ||
Artanis[Xp]
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