Organ Donation Discussion

This topic has been widely alluded too and massively debated on in other threads. This will be the thread to properly and officially discuss it.

The question is, what are your views on organ donation?

Here are the pros and cons:

Pros

In the case of the dead donor, the organ(s) are used to save lives when they would otherwise be useless
In the case of the reciever, he will not only get an extention of life, but also an improved quality, as a new organ will help him stay away from mechanical ad chemical interventions to his health
Parties involved also benefit as the family of the donor feel happy to help and save lives, just as the recipient and the family feel grateful and indebted
In the case of body donation, it can be used to advance science (or art).

Cons

The basic con is religion. Jehovah's Witness and Shintoism are two significant religions opposed to organ donation. In Jehovah's Witness, it is not a prohibition on organ donation per se, but on blood transfusion. But since all organ donations require blood transfusion, organ donation is technically prohibited. In Shinto on the other hand, a corpse is considered impure, and intervention to a dead person is considered bad luck.
The second one is a slight "misunderstanding" and is "pseudo-ethical" and can be easily resolved. In the process of organ removal among dead persons, the body is often held in life support to minimize tissue damage. To families and friends, this may seem disturbing as there will be semblance of life still, even though organ extraction requires that the person is brain dead.
The most compelling reason against organ donation is not on the individual level but sociological. These are completely different from the "voluntary donor" argument as discussed in the "Pros", so care and attention should be given when replying to and discussing these. These can be broken down into three.
First is the case among live organ donors usually in poor thirdworld countries, Indonesia, Brazil, South Africa, Philippines, Thailand, India, Pakistan, etc. Even though the organ donation is voluntary, some argue that there is no genuine choice becuase on the larger sociological level, this practice, even some call syndicate, takes advantage of the "volunteer's", usually unemployed, poor economic condition, and the decision to volunteer is not natural. The volunteers are "forced to choose" economic benefit (pay is handsome) at the expense of health, usually one of the kidneys. Moreover, research supports that even this economic benefit is illusory, as it encourages dependence among people who'd rather donate an organ than work, and it would in fact put them deeper in poverty as they won't have the necessary knowledge to make their gain sustainable and would revert back to their old lazy ways.
The second reveals a much darker side to this phenomenon. There are plenty of individual reports but not much thorough research and investigation, but many deaths and reports of being missing, especially amonng children in third world countries, are suspected to be killed to have their organs extracted to be given to rich people in the US and other first world countries.
The third is what we can call the "China situation". In China, prisoners, whether or not voluntary, are automatic organ donors. In cases of prisoners in death sentence (in China, death sentence is done by shooting the prisoner in the head), they are immediately brought to the hospital after they are executed for the organs to be harvested. The complications with these arise because the date of execution (in China, death sentence prisoners know the date of their execution only during the date itself) may be adjusted, postponed or cut short, depending on the needs of the market.

These are the pros and cons of organ donation, with two specific subtopics. I hope we can have a good discussion and exchange of ideas on this. There are a few polls below to aide the discussion. Feel free to elaborae on your vote on your posts.

Last edit: 2012-03-26 02:23:53

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

fYlddnaHturtDyaWdmAi Israel. March 26 2012 02:22. Posts 157

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Poll: Will you donate your organ(s) when you die?

Yes (294)

88%

No (40)

12%

334 total votes

Your vote: Will you donate your organ(s) when you die?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Poll: Will you donate your organ(s) while you are living?

No (206)

85%

Yes (35)

15%

241 total votes

Your vote: Will you donate your organ(s) while you are living?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

For this next poll, complete question should be:
Should people who opt out as donors be disqualified from receiving organ donation even if they need it?

Poll: Should people who opt out as donors be disqualified...?

No (134)

63%

Yes (79)

37%

213 total votes

Your vote: Should people who opt out as donors be disqualified...?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

For this next poll, complete question should be:
Will you receive organs you know are acquired unethically (forced extraction, illegal sources, etc) just so you can live...?

Poll: Will you receive organs you know are acquired unethically...?

Yes (137)

66%

No (72)

34%

209 total votes

Your vote: Will you receive organs you know are acquired unethically...?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No

Last edit: 2012-03-26 02:55:24

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Rimstalker Germany. March 26 2012 02:26. Posts 422

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Of course I will donate.

And carry your organ donor card! My sister had one, had a bike-crash that mashed her brain, did not have her card OR id along, so the doctors could not get hold of family to ask for it and they were not allowed to take anything.

Here be Dragons

KwarK United Kingdom. March 26 2012 02:26. Posts 20442

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The research I've read shows that on average live kidney donors (the people who give kidneys away) live longer than other people. While kidney donors are required to meet a higher standard of health than regular people in order to meet donation criteria it still suggests that the long term health implications are minimal.

The angels have the phone box

xpldngmn Austria. March 26 2012 02:26. Posts 144

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Please do not list "religion" as a con. You can't argue with religion, theologic debates are nice to have in their own set of rules, but when it comes to "real life problems", they don't really fit. Why do I argue this way? God told me to do so.

White-Ra, MC and Grubby, the Protoss Triumvirate. Dimaga, DRG and Cella. MVP, MMA and heroMarine.

SnipedSoul Canada. March 26 2012 02:27. Posts 1686

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I like the system where you are automatically signed up for organ donation and have the ability to opt out if you don't want to. I think a lot of people don't really care one way or the other, but never take the time to fill out the paperwork so a lot of organs are lost for no real reason.

I am a registered organ donor so any organs can be taken from my body if I die. I would only be a live donor if it was to help someone in my family.

On March 26 2012 02:26 KwarK wrote:
The research I've read shows that on average live kidney donors (the people who give kidneys away) live longer than other people. While kidney donors are required to meet a higher standard of health than regular people in order to meet donation criteria it still suggests that the long term health implications are minimal.

I also think anyone who donates a kidney is likely to be more aware of their health and wellbeing than the average person. They'll probably take better care of themselves by drinking less, for example.

Last edit: 2012-03-26 02:29:20

fYlddnaHturtDyaWdmAi Israel. March 26 2012 02:29. Posts 157

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On March 26 2012 02:26 xpldngmn wrote:
Please do not list "religion" as a con. You can't argue with religion, theologic debates are nice to have in their own set of rules, but when it comes to "real life problems", they don't really fit. Why do I argue this way? God told me to do so.

You can't be serious. I simply laid out the issue thoroughly as a matter of fact. Religious fanaticism is just as bad as blanket condemnation of religion as you are doing.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

GoTuNk! Chile. March 26 2012 02:31. Posts 2218

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I think everyone should be donor as default when dead, and that when you opt out of doning you should lose your right to be on a waiting for any organ. I don't uderstand how any other way seems even close to reasonable.

fYlddnaHturtDyaWdmAi Israel. March 26 2012 02:35. Posts 157

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Can those who vote "No" in the first poll state their reasons? I'm really interested what could make someone not approve of organ donation when the body no longer needs it.

Gotunk, I agree with the opt out = waive formula. Seems perfectly reasonable.

Last edit: 2012-03-26 02:35:57

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Eben United States. March 26 2012 02:37. Posts 728

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I'm an organ donor. If i'm dead they might as well use my organs for someone else to gain.

I agree that everyone should be a 'default' donor unless they opt out. Would provide so many more organs.

isleyofthenorth Austria. March 26 2012 02:39. Posts 834

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Proud to live in a country where you are AUTOMATICALLY organ donor. unless you get a document which says otherwise(which except for a few fanatics no one gets)

Last edit: 2012-03-26 02:41:10

Abort Retry Fail March 26 2012 02:41. Posts 2627

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I haven't really thought of this, but while I agree that the automatic organ donor and opting out means disqualification is logical, what happened to free will? What if I don't feel like donating my organs just because. Will the system discriminate me because I choose not to donate my organ?

BSOD

Reedjr United States. March 26 2012 02:41. Posts 227

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I'll donate mine once I'm dead/braindead, and if a unique situation presents itself I may do so while still alive - it's difficult to say.

On March 26 2012 02:21 fYlddnaHturtDyaWdmAi wrote:
There are plenty of individual reports but not much thorough research and investigation, but many deaths and reports of being missing, especially amonng children in third world countries, are suspected to be killed to have their organs extracted to be given to rich people in the US and other first world countries.

Is there anything legitimate on this? It seems really conspiracy theory-ish.

Batch Sweden. March 26 2012 02:42. Posts 658

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You should have another vote set up where you ask if someone would accept a donated organ in case they need it. It would be interesting to see if those who vote that don't want to donate their organs are willing to accept an organ from a donator.

When I die I donate as much as possible. I have told the ones closest to me so they know and love so they wouldn't need to think twice if they get that question.

Xiphias Norway. March 26 2012 02:43. Posts 516

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In the "con" department. Would we not see less people who donate organs while living because of bad conditions if more "normal" people became organ donors? So it's kinda of a pro, and not a con. ("Flodding the marked with organs!")

fYlddnaHturtDyaWdmAi Israel. March 26 2012 02:48. Posts 157

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On March 26 2012 02:41 Reedjr wrote:
I'll donate mine once I'm dead/braindead, and if a unique situation presents itself I may do so while still alive - it's difficult to say.

Show nested quote +

Is there anything legitimate on this? It seems really conspiracy theory-ish.

Read "The Red Market" by Scott Carney.

On March 26 2012 02:42 Batch wrote:
You should have another vote set up where you ask if someone would accept a donated organ in case they need it. It would be interesting to see if those who vote that don't want to donate their organs are willing to accept an organ from a donator.

When I die I donate as much as possible. I have told the ones closest to me so they know and love so they wouldn't need to think twice if they get that question.

Thanks, I'm also adding one other poll.

On March 26 2012 02:43 Xiphias wrote:
In the "con" department. Would we not see less people who donate organs while living because of bad conditions if more "normal" people became organ donors? So it's kinda of a pro, and not a con. ("Flodding the marked with organs!")

As long as there are more people being born than dying, I think the need for organ will never be zero or negative.

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Rannasha Netherlands. March 26 2012 02:56. Posts 2255

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I wish that the Netherlands had an opt-out system for donation, rather than the current opt-in system. We're rather progressive in most areas, but somehow when it comes to organ donation we're lagging behind. I guess it's not enough of an issue for the progressive parties to push it through.

I've registered as donor of course. If my lifeless waste (which is pretty much what it is once you're braindead) can help someone live a longer and better life, then why the hell not?

Such flammable little insects!

Abort Retry Fail March 26 2012 02:57. Posts 2627

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On March 26 2012 02:41 Reedjr wrote:
I'll donate mine once I'm dead/braindead, and if a unique situation presents itself I may do so while still alive - it's difficult to say.

Show nested quote +

Is there anything legitimate on this? It seems really conspiracy theory-ish.

Sounds shady to me as well.

BSOD

Batch Sweden. March 26 2012 03:05. Posts 658

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I don't think people who opt out as donors should be disqualified but I do think they should get lower priority in case of a queue.

xM(Z Romania. March 26 2012 03:26. Posts 2015

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nope. i do not want to help with the overpopulation thinggie.
besides, if there is no free will and everything is predestined, those people are suppose to die, right?.

And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.