| Dodgin Canada. March 30 2012 20:32. Posts 25219 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 20:05 marcesr wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 12:00 Sc2Null wrote:
So basically...the foreign teams success rate is completely dependent on how many Korean players they can get
Yep, thats the sad truth. I cant believe how short term all the foreign teams are thinking. Yes Koreans are the best players to a reasonable price but do they really think SC2 stays interesting for everyone besides the hardcore fans if more and more Koreans dominate everything? Which team is gonna win the next team league? -> Well how many Koreans do they have on their roster? Who is going to win the tournament? -> Well which Koreans did get an invite? God...
What are the teams supposed to do? Even if TL/EG/Col/any other foreign team never recruited any Koreans the Korean teams would still send their players to international lans and they would win them. Korean teams would win all the team leagues too, at least now the foreigner teams have a chance to compete against them and not get crushed.
If your answer is " stick with your foreign players and hope they get good enough to beat Koreans and win tournaments "
Sorry but the reality of Starcraft is that most foreigners don't put in enough effort to win, in some cases you will have someone naturally talented ( Stephano ) who can compete without practicing like it's a full time job, but It's very rare.
And It's not like they have dropped any of their players, they simply added more.Last edit: 2012-03-30 20:33:21 |
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| Velr Switzerland. March 30 2012 20:38. Posts 5110 | Profile Blog # |
No one is truely disagreeing on that.
But the other side of the sad truth is:
Plenty of people don't give a fuck how Taeja vs "Otherkoreanguy" or/and Korean-Team vs Otherkoreanteam does. |
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| habeck March 30 2012 20:40. Posts 715 | Profile # |
Nice to see that Teamliquid has a new member. It will be interesting to see how Taeja's skill changes.
On the other hand, i don't like the fact that since he joined teamliquid everybody is saying how good he is and that he is the best... Like every time TL got a new member |
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| marcesr Germany. March 30 2012 20:48. Posts 967 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 20:32 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 20:05 marcesr wrote:
On March 30 2012 12:00 Sc2Null wrote:
So basically...the foreign teams success rate is completely dependent on how many Korean players they can get
Yep, thats the sad truth. I cant believe how short term all the foreign teams are thinking. Yes Koreans are the best players to a reasonable price but do they really think SC2 stays interesting for everyone besides the hardcore fans if more and more Koreans dominate everything? Which team is gonna win the next team league? -> Well how many Koreans do they have on their roster? Who is going to win the tournament? -> Well which Koreans did get an invite? God...
What are the teams supposed to do? Even if TL/EG/Col/any other foreign team never recruited any Koreans the Korean teams would still send their players to international lans and they would win them. Korean teams would win all the team leagues too, at least now the foreigner teams have a chance to compete against them and not get crushed. If your answer is " stick with your foreign players and hope they get good enough to beat Koreans and win tournaments " Sorry but the reality of Starcraft is that most foreigners don't put in enough effort to win, in some cases you will have someone naturally talented ( Stephano ) who can compete without practicing like it's a full time job, but It's very rare. And It's not like they have dropped any of their players, they simply added more.
Well you cant do much about teamleagues which are played out online but for offline events I would suggest that foreign teams and tournaments stop paying for Koreans to fly over.
If Korean teams are able to pay for flights and travel accomodations Koreans can go, if not, then they stay in Korea.
The reason why this would work out very well is because when Korean teams get big enough to support traveling it also means that the Korean market has grown enough (maybe with BW teams switching over, SC2 PL and OSL) that the best Koreans are busy in Korea most of the time practicing and playing their big leagues.
So it would only be worth it for Koreans to come over for the very very big events and there would still be plenty of lans with just foreigners. |
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| Dodgin Canada. March 30 2012 20:49. Posts 25219 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 20:38 Velr wrote:
No one is truely disagreeing on that.
But the other side of the sad truth is:
Plenty of people don't give a fuck how Taeja vs "Otherkoreanguy" or/and Korean-Team vs Otherkoreanteam does.
There's lots of content out there for people who don't care about the Korean scene, if you want to watch foreign players It's still very possible to do so. This is why I don't understand the complaining.
If they are good enough to qualify for events they will get in and you will get to watch them play, if not there are a lot of smaller events that happen too. It's not like TL is going to come out and say,
" Hey guys, due to Haypro/Jinro/Nony/TLO not winning any tournaments for us we're going to remove them from the team and concentrate only on our best players! "
No, that's stupid, and It's never going to happen.
If your concern is that they won't see as much team league action I can understand that, but this is where It's good to bring in the best of seven proleague format as opposed to an all-kill format with less sets. Instead of seeing the best player on the team go on a tear, you get to see almost all of the members of the team play in every match. Unfortunately right now there's not enough foreign teams that can field a lineup big enough for that type of thing, but it would be awesome.
On March 30 2012 20:48 marcesr wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 20:32 Dodgin wrote:
On March 30 2012 20:05 marcesr wrote:
On March 30 2012 12:00 Sc2Null wrote:
So basically...the foreign teams success rate is completely dependent on how many Korean players they can get
Yep, thats the sad truth. I cant believe how short term all the foreign teams are thinking. Yes Koreans are the best players to a reasonable price but do they really think SC2 stays interesting for everyone besides the hardcore fans if more and more Koreans dominate everything? Which team is gonna win the next team league? -> Well how many Koreans do they have on their roster? Who is going to win the tournament? -> Well which Koreans did get an invite? God...
What are the teams supposed to do? Even if TL/EG/Col/any other foreign team never recruited any Koreans the Korean teams would still send their players to international lans and they would win them. Korean teams would win all the team leagues too, at least now the foreigner teams have a chance to compete against them and not get crushed. If your answer is " stick with your foreign players and hope they get good enough to beat Koreans and win tournaments " Sorry but the reality of Starcraft is that most foreigners don't put in enough effort to win, in some cases you will have someone naturally talented ( Stephano ) who can compete without practicing like it's a full time job, but It's very rare. And It's not like they have dropped any of their players, they simply added more.
Well you cant do much about teamleagues which are played out online but for offline events I would suggest that foreign teams and tournaments stop paying for Koreans to fly over. If Korean teams are able to pay for flights and travel accomodations Koreans can go, if not, then they stay in Korea. The reason why this would work out very well is because when Korean teams get big enough to support traveling it also means that the Korean market has grown enough (maybe with BW teams switching over, SC2 PL and OSL) that the best Koreans are busy in Korea most of the time practicing and playing their big leagues. So it would only be worth it for Koreans to come over for the very very big events and there would still be plenty of lans with just foreigners.
I can't imagine there is a high demand for Korean-less LAN events, I would love to be proven wrong but I don't think the majority of the audience is interested in a tournament without some of the top players in the world.
Last edit: 2012-03-30 20:53:28 |
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| Cosmos Belgium. March 30 2012 21:07. Posts 1003 | Profile # |
| He is good and TL needed a terran but he never amazed me like zenio or hero did before they joined TL. |
| | http://www.justin.tv/becosmos |  |
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| hotsuma Brazil. March 30 2012 21:11. Posts 51 | Profile # | |
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| Velr Switzerland. March 30 2012 21:16. Posts 5110 | Profile Blog # |
"some" is a keyword.
If i want just the absolute best i watch GSL (which i do when i have time  )..
If i want an exciting live event i don't need 10 Koreans.. 2-3 are enough to spiece things up and make it exciting.
I think it's more exciting to see the guy that i watched in some small cups grind it out in the early stages of his career playing against a korean gosu or other foreign BIG's.
Thats how i saw Stephano rise which did not look that impressive when he began to sho up in those weekly cups...
It just creates the way better storylines/exctiement than "Korean who lives in Gaminghouse and is very hard working and has supportive parents" vs "Korean who lives in a Gaminghouse and does nothing but game and likes noodles because it is his one true passion".
I mean.. I saw Nerchio rage. I saw Stephanos pink powerranger shit which he used to do and everyone hated. I saw Naniwas missbehaviour in plenty of online cups, i saw how Beastyqt (and numerous others) placed high again and again and still plenty of people had no idea who he was, i saw Goody tanking it's way to countless victorys while take was cursing himself for having to cast another "Goddy stalemate of doom"...
The play these guys deliver might not allways be STELLLLLLAAAAAR.. But the matchups/games are just way more exciting to me. |
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| TheOnlyNurSo Germany. March 30 2012 21:47. Posts 50 | Profile # |
I don´t like the trend that big foreign teams get so many korean progamers just to be succesfull in big tournaments.
In my opinion the big teams should concentrate on more young foreign players and bring them in korean teamhouses instead of recruiting code s players. |
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 Myles United States. March 30 2012 21:54. Posts 4088 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 21:47 TheOnlyNurSo wrote:
I don´t like the trend that big foreign teams get so many korean progamers just to be succesfull in big tournaments.
In my opinion the big teams should concentrate on more young foreign players and bring them in korean teamhouses instead of recruiting code s players.
If teams don't have tournament success then they don't get sponsorship and can't continue to exist. You're asking foreign organizations to essentially be farm teams, and farm teams generally can't survive on their own. |
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| Velr Switzerland. March 30 2012 22:03. Posts 5110 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 21:54 Myles wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 21:47 TheOnlyNurSo wrote:
I don´t like the trend that big foreign teams get so many korean progamers just to be succesfull in big tournaments.
In my opinion the big teams should concentrate on more young foreign players and bring them in korean teamhouses instead of recruiting code s players.
If teams don't have tournament success then they don't get sponsorship and can't continue to exist. You're asking foreign organizations to essentially be farm teams, and farm teams generally can't survive on their own.
Entire european football leagues kinda figure as "farmteams" for the next bigger leagues. That should not really be an issue as long as you have viewers. |
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| Myles United States. March 30 2012 22:20. Posts 4088 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 22:03 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 21:54 Myles wrote:
On March 30 2012 21:47 TheOnlyNurSo wrote:
I don´t like the trend that big foreign teams get so many korean progamers just to be succesfull in big tournaments.
In my opinion the big teams should concentrate on more young foreign players and bring them in korean teamhouses instead of recruiting code s players.
If teams don't have tournament success then they don't get sponsorship and can't continue to exist. You're asking foreign organizations to essentially be farm teams, and farm teams generally can't survive on their own.
Entire european football leagues kinda figure as "farmteams" for the next bigger leagues. That should not really be an issue as long as you have viewers.
I'm not familiar with how 'minor league' soccer/football works in Europe, but I don't think esports is to that point yet. There's not enough interest, imo. |
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| Winstan90 England. March 30 2012 22:24. Posts 16 | Profile # |
i really dont get the people who dont like Koreans at events, watching starcraft be played at its best is the best thing about starcraft no?
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| Meiffeltower Sweden. March 30 2012 22:53. Posts 402 | Profile # |
TL/EG should make team for GSTL...
JYP
PuMa
HuK
Hero
Zeno
Taeja
Jinro
Haypro
hwaiting.. |
| | LEEEEE YOOOUUUUUNG HOOOOOO |  |
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| DoubleB Germany. March 30 2012 22:54. Posts 766 | Profile # |
Congratz to Liquid for a really solid choice ) He will be a good part of the team I guess
And congratulations to Taeja who is part of a non-korean team now |
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| Eee Sweden. March 30 2012 22:56. Posts 2709 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 22:53 Meiffeltower wrote:
TL/EG should make team for GSTL...
JYP
PuMa
HuK
Hero
Zeno
Taeja
Jinro
Haypro
hwaiting..
TL will have enough players to have their own team soon, especially since both TLO and Sheth are planning to go to Korea this year. |
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| jj33 March 30 2012 23:03. Posts 741 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 22:24 Winstan90 wrote:
i really dont get the people who dont like Koreans at events, watching starcraft be played at its best is the best thing about starcraft no?
they are just giving us BS fancy explanations why they don't like Koreans on foreign teams.
the real underlying reason is their racist feelings. |
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| jj33 March 30 2012 23:04. Posts 741 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 20:48 marcesr wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 20:32 Dodgin wrote:
On March 30 2012 20:05 marcesr wrote:
On March 30 2012 12:00 Sc2Null wrote:
So basically...the foreign teams success rate is completely dependent on how many Korean players they can get
Yep, thats the sad truth. I cant believe how short term all the foreign teams are thinking. Yes Koreans are the best players to a reasonable price but do they really think SC2 stays interesting for everyone besides the hardcore fans if more and more Koreans dominate everything? Which team is gonna win the next team league? -> Well how many Koreans do they have on their roster? Who is going to win the tournament? -> Well which Koreans did get an invite? God...
What are the teams supposed to do? Even if TL/EG/Col/any other foreign team never recruited any Koreans the Korean teams would still send their players to international lans and they would win them. Korean teams would win all the team leagues too, at least now the foreigner teams have a chance to compete against them and not get crushed. If your answer is " stick with your foreign players and hope they get good enough to beat Koreans and win tournaments " Sorry but the reality of Starcraft is that most foreigners don't put in enough effort to win, in some cases you will have someone naturally talented ( Stephano ) who can compete without practicing like it's a full time job, but It's very rare. And It's not like they have dropped any of their players, they simply added more.
Well you cant do much about teamleagues which are played out online but for offline events I would suggest that foreign teams and tournaments stop paying for Koreans to fly over. If Korean teams are able to pay for flights and travel accomodations Koreans can go, if not, then they stay in Korea. The reason why this would work out very well is because when Korean teams get big enough to support traveling it also means that the Korean market has grown enough (maybe with BW teams switching over, SC2 PL and OSL) that the best Koreans are busy in Korea most of the time practicing and playing their big leagues. So it would only be worth it for Koreans to come over for the very very big events and there would still be plenty of lans with just foreigners.
OR here's a novel idea. How about foreigners get good?
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| Shardz United States. March 30 2012 23:12. Posts 324 | Profile # |
| How come everyone complaining here is being so mildly racist? You guys are treating Koreans like they are a different species or something and how foreign teams are giving into recruiting them because they are "better". I don't see this pick up as anything other than liquid recruiting a good terran. What does being korean have to do with anything? If taeja was japanese, I'm sure there would be no complainers, but since he korean, liquid is "giving in"? Koreans just happen to train harder and better than other players, it doesn't make them a different species. |
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| jj33 March 30 2012 23:15. Posts 741 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 23:12 Shardz wrote:
How come everyone complaining here is being so mildly racist? You guys are treating Koreans like they are a different species or something and how foreign teams are giving into recruiting them because they are "better". I don't see this pick up as anything other than liquid recruiting a good terran. What does being korean have to do with anything? If taeja was japanese, I'm sure there would be no complainers, but since he korean, liquid is "giving in"? Koreans just happen to train harder and better than other players, it doesn't make them a different species.
exactly.
they are racist.
they should really change the term "foreigners" to white people.
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