Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (81 users)
Active: 7837 users | |
|
| Xiphos Canada. March 30 2012 06:22. Posts 5732 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:18 MattBarry wrote:
I wonder if Kespa will ban anyone who receives lessons if one of them ever chooses to go pro.
Would be funny if the student manage to Royal Road an OSL. |
| | 2012 - Remember of the Fallen Heroes and Command the way to your victory. |  |
|
|
| PowerDes United States. March 30 2012 06:29. Posts 494 | Profile Blog # |
| Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa". |
| | FXOPower | WhispeR - Random GM | @Power_Des on Twitter | twitch.tv/PowerDes | |
|
|
| Biff The Understudy France. March 30 2012 06:30. Posts 4017 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 04:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 03:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 29 2012 23:06 GTR wrote:
30k won is quite a lot (compared to the other afreeca bjs)
players like eagle/anytime do it for 10-15k won p/hr iirc.
that being said, you are learning from probably the greatest strategic zerg ever to play bw.
welp at least it's cheaper than idra.
I actually never understood how people could pay the absolutely ludicrous amount Idra or InControl are asking. I think 25 dollars is a fairly normal amount for an hour with a very good player. I wouldn't pay more if i was crazy enough about the game to pay for a teacher...
You'd be surprised. As an assistant tennis pro at the country club I teach at (during summers), I easily make $50+ hour giving private lessons, and I don't plan on going on tour at all. The head pros I've worked with make over $100/ hour, although they've had experience in the professional scene and whatnot. Granted, the tennis community is a bit richer than the gaming community, but it's all about finding how much money people are willing to spend and showing off how good of a professional and teacher you are, and marketing properly.
I am a violionist and I charge at least 30 euros an hour. Some great teachers charge up to 150 euros, and most people find it way too expensive.
The thing is that a great violinist who charge 150 euros or more an hour usually have skill and career achievements that would rather compare to a mixture of Flash, Jaedong and Bisu put together (that's how much talent, time and dedication you need to be a great virtuoso) rather than the one of a player who never even made it to Proleague or past a preliminary. Also the main thing is that the people who would pay that amount of money (that is still twice less than what Idra asks iirc) are themselves very advanced young professionals for whom playing is basically their whole life.
Paying what, 300 dollars for an hour of online "coaching" by an unexperienced coach (because that's also something else, the great violin teacher that ask for twice less than Idra have usually been teaching for 30 years) and kinda half decent pro-gamer player (I am not saying here that Idra was bad, although at least as a Brood War player, I never thought he was the quarter of the worst A-team players in proleague) is just throwing money out the window. I find that insane.
But well, as long as people make money...Last edit: 2012-03-30 06:33:59 |
| | Beware of the dreams of others, because if you are caught in their dream, you are screwed. Dreams are terrifying will to power. ~Gilles Deleuze |  |
|
|
| Kralic Canada. March 30 2012 06:30. Posts 2566 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him. |
| | Brood War forever! |  |
|
|
 heyoka Administrator March 30 2012 06:30. | Profile Blog # |
| It feels like charging for lessons should violate your probation in this instance. |
| | @RealHeyoka |  |
|
|
| TheToast United States. March 30 2012 06:35. Posts 4804 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 01:30 Sawamura wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:
On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing.
Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be.
I think the reason that is getting everyone all so work up is because Savior isn't just another no name player . Lots of time and money has been spent on promoting this guy to create the fan base for starcraft broodwar and now since he created the loophole for outside third party meddle in to what is suppose to be a "clean" sport . Not only he tainted the scene and destroyed every potential good players that were playing in the scene . He may also inadvertently killed the scene in a way because Savior/Hwasin/Upmagic do pull a lot of crowds and fans .
That is a good point, Savior is only at a place where he can do this because of the support of the scene that he turned his back on. But at the same time, Savior made a lot of money for a lot of people as well (not the illegal gambling site, I mean like his team, MBC, OGN, etc) that probably far outweighed the amount of money that was spent to promote and market him.
On March 30 2012 01:33 cLicK wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 01:20 TheToast wrote:
On March 30 2012 01:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing.
Yeah, I agree with this. Savior has been playing BW since his teens right? Outside of pro-gaming what is he actually qualified to do, does he have any type of education at all? The guy has got to be able to support himself somehow, and what he is offering is something of relatively high value. I don't think this situation hurts anyone or does any more damage to BW/esports. So honestly, I say let the guy be.
It doesen't. And I don't really care what Savior does now. But what gives him the right to use BW to make money. The excuse "this is all I know what to do" is disgusting. What about guys like go.go that can barely take care of themselves (Oldboy) How is that fair to them, the people he dragged into this mess. They have 0 skills as well. He's just lucky he had such a successful career or this wouldn't even work. He should just do his military service, people will forget about him, and he should just go to school and make a proper future for himself. Clinging on to BW after what he's done just b/c "its all I know" is crazy. Nothing wrong with streaming, but Im getting the impression he's actually using his BW fame and career to sustain himself completely.
What gives you the right to tell him he can't use BW to make money? Let's be fair, none of us knows exactly what type of financial situation he is in; and education in Korean culture from most other nations. Could one even get into a decent school in Korea with a criminal background?
Someone earlier in this thread used baseball as a comparison; and I think that actually is a pretty good example. If say hypothetically, Barry Bonds (someone who many in the US feel damaged Major League Baseball with his rampant use of illegal performanced enhancing drugs and subsequent breaking of MLB records) decides that he wants to start selling baseball lessons to minor and college league players; I am sure there would be outrage by some. Many feel he "cheated" to break Hank Aaron's record and many still feel that he is a disgrace to the sport.
But realistically, the opportunity to take lessons with someone as talented as Bonds could be potentially invaluableto an up and coming player, clearly he has a lot of talent and knowledge about the game that few others do. (it takes more than just strength to hit that many homers) Others may just do it for a chance to meet Bonds. Even if he were doing it for pure financial gain, the result could be quite positive and in all honestly doesn't cause MLB or anyone else any additional harm. And if Barry Bonds doesn't offer lessons, that doesn't undo the damage he did to Major League Baseball; it doesn't change the records he broke using while illegal drugs. It doesn't change the opinions of thousands of former fans or myself.
I think the situation with Savior is no different. Yes, he did irrevocable damage to the scene, yes, he put his selfish greed above the fans. Yes, he betrayed a lot of people. But realistically what's the potential harm here? His lifetime ban from Kespa seems ironclad, so what's the harm if people want to pay him in exchange for some personal lessons? Who does that really hurt? While I realize many people will forever remain dissappointed in him, the community doesn't "own" BW, just like I don't own baseball. If Barry Bonds wants to start selling signed baseballs on Ebay, there's not a darn thing I can do to stop him, no matter how I may feel about him. At some point I have to accept that and just move on.
|
| | I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid. |  |
|
|
| supernovamaniac United States. March 30 2012 06:36. Posts 2232 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 05:50 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:36 supernovamaniac wrote:
On March 30 2012 05:03 r33k wrote:
On March 30 2012 04:48 supernovamaniac wrote:
On March 30 2012 04:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Ok nerds. stop said savior killed the bw scene. The entire world is in crisis. and korea is not the exception. Mbc move to kpop cuz they can win much more... u are just nerds .i saw many football players sell games. and football is still the best thing in the world. ofc not many nerds know about this 
I still don't know if you're not informed or if you're trying to run away from the truth. Even after all these months after I presented some evidence as well as adieu MBC translations, I'm forced to believe that you're just trying to force yourself to believe that savior didn't play any role whatsoever.
He created, he destroyed. Big deal? Depends on what you mean by that. He took a dying esports and brought it to life again. Remember the sync OSL and the era of oov? The games were a fucking pain to watch and the players had a much different impact on the public eye. The figure of the superstar progamer that kind of came about with Xellos became reality with Savior and thanks to him alone. All the evidence you quoted about him being an evil person with no regrets is sensationalist press coming from korean fox news. Bifrost had a bigger impact than him and called himself a progamer too on the first appeal. I don't give a fuck what title you call yourself, except that those words were said in a court of justice where the players had to state the evidence and their side of the story. It was their full right to do so, and furthermore it was their duty. They were processed as progamers and that should have been the end of the story. Kespa legislation ended when they brought the players into the process, anything else is just the good old bandwagon shaming that koreans love.
Let me rephrase what happened: Savior: I'm quitting BW to start studying, and I'm going to go study abroad (from his very own afreeca channel) few months later: Savior: I'm giving out BW lessons.
One time I told my mother I was going to study the classics, but I studied math instead. It's his life, haven't you ever changed your mind before?
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 05:36 supernovamaniac wrote:
On March 30 2012 05:03 r33k wrote:
On March 30 2012 04:48 supernovamaniac wrote:
On March 30 2012 04:45 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Ok nerds. stop said savior killed the bw scene. The entire world is in crisis. and korea is not the exception. Mbc move to kpop cuz they can win much more... u are just nerds .i saw many football players sell games. and football is still the best thing in the world. ofc not many nerds know about this
I still don't know if you're not informed or if you're trying to run away from the truth. Even after all these months after I presented some evidence as well as adieu MBC translations, I'm forced to believe that you're just trying to force yourself to believe that savior didn't play any role whatsoever.
He created, he destroyed. Big deal? Depends on what you mean by that. He took a dying esports and brought it to life again. Remember the sync OSL and the era of oov? The games were a fucking pain to watch and the players had a much different impact on the public eye. The figure of the superstar progamer that kind of came about with Xellos became reality with Savior and thanks to him alone. All the evidence you quoted about him being an evil person with no regrets is sensationalist press coming from korean fox news. Bifrost had a bigger impact than him and called himself a progamer too on the first appeal. I don't give a fuck what title you call yourself, except that those words were said in a court of justice where the players had to state the evidence and their side of the story. It was their full right to do so, and furthermore it was their duty. They were processed as progamers and that should have been the end of the story. Kespa legislation ended when they brought the players into the process, anything else is just the good old bandwagon shaming that koreans love.
Let me rephrase what happened: Savior: I'm quitting BW to start studying, and I'm going to go study abroad (from his very own afreeca channel) few months later: Savior: I'm giving out BW lessons.
ok u mad cuz savior give free win to bisu in the msl final fake win bro so sad :D
I don't think people were fixing matches in 2007, didn't web betting of games take off a bit later? Besides, the prize money for a final is a LOT. The financial justification for fixing matches is that you can make more off the ones that don't matter. Not the damn sets that determine whether you get a tens of thousands of dollars prize. Bisu simply won that day.
Do you think I have problem with people changing their mind? Not really. But if you read what I actually quoted, then you will understand why I reposted that. |
|
|
| koreasilver Canada. March 30 2012 06:39. Posts 7493 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"? |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt | |
|
|
| Biff The Understudy France. March 30 2012 06:42. Posts 4017 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:39 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"?
Yeah, since Bonjwa is a fan-made unofficial title, I don't really see... |
| | Beware of the dreams of others, because if you are caught in their dream, you are screwed. Dreams are terrifying will to power. ~Gilles Deleuze | |
|
|
| koreasilver Canada. March 30 2012 06:44. Posts 7493 | Profile Blog # |
| Post-scandal Savior threads produce the most retarded posts. |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt | |
|
|
 ImbaTosS United Kingdom. March 30 2012 06:45. Posts 1217 | Profile Blog # |
| I really don't know what to think of this... I think Savior is a well-deserved pariah, and absolutely amoral for what he did. On the other hand, having him disappear 100% won't undo what he did, and I suppose his giving lessons is pretty irrelevant at this point. It's still something for BW, much as I despise the man. Last edit: 2012-03-30 06:45:57 |
| | EleGant[AoV] My TLPD sucks. I'm good though, I swear... | |
|
|
| Kralic Canada. March 30 2012 06:45. Posts 2566 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:39 koreasilver wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"?
Yeah, since Bonjwa is a fan-made unofficial title, I don't really see...
That is why I used the word they, because there is no way of actually proving that anyone took away a title that is not official.
I do disagree with changing the title to say Bonjwa instead of Match Fixing. |
| | Brood War forever! | |
|
|
| koreasilver Canada. March 30 2012 06:46. Posts 7493 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:45 Kralic wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:39 koreasilver wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"?
Yeah, since Bonjwa is a fan-made unofficial title, I don't really see...
That is why I used the word they, because there is no way of actually proving that anyone took away a title that is not official.
I give up. |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt | |
|
|
| hifriend Sweden. March 30 2012 06:47. Posts 5965 | Profile Blog # |
| Sounds like a ridiculously good deal for lessons with an amazingly accomplished pro like savior. |
| |
|
| gds Iceland. March 30 2012 06:48. Posts 1387 | Profile Blog # |
My opinion:
Savior <3 you can do what the fuck you wanna do!
And red cards for the TL censors aka 'the flawless human beings' for having his stream banned here 
|
| |
|
| Kralic Canada. March 30 2012 06:48. Posts 2566 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:46 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:45 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:39 koreasilver wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"?
Yeah, since Bonjwa is a fan-made unofficial title, I don't really see...
That is why I used the word they, because there is no way of actually proving that anyone took away a title that is not official.
I give up.
I give up as well. Sorry if I do not meet your posting standard about your hero. |
| | Brood War forever! | |
|
|
| Dental Floss United States. March 30 2012 06:49. Posts 974 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 05:56 PassiveAce wrote:
The funniest part of this is the price, remember when idra charged in the hundreds per hour? lol.
I'm not sure you can directly compare the prices. I mean, the lifestyles and costs are so drastically different between the US and Korea that it just isn't possible to make a direct comparison. |
| | President of the Kim Tae Gyun fanclub! |  |
|
|
| Torenhire United States. March 30 2012 06:50. Posts 9313 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:49 Dental Floss wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:56 PassiveAce wrote:
The funniest part of this is the price, remember when idra charged in the hundreds per hour? lol.
I'm not sure you can directly compare the prices. I mean, the lifestyles and costs are so drastically different between the US and Korea that it just isn't possible to make a direct comparison.
FFS.
You guys do realize that Idra charges those prices because he doesn't want to give lessons to a thousand-million people?
Yes a thousand-million
He's using the high price as a deterrent, not as a self-value of his time.
|
| | #1 Shuttle // LuckyFool // Memory // STX SouL Fan!! Go Liquid + nth!! Torenhire Starleague - the ESPORTS community will spin head so fast like Exorcist. |  |
|
|
| raga4ka Bulgaria. March 30 2012 06:50. Posts 5002 | Profile # |
On March 30 2012 02:30 Corsica wrote:
25$ seems like a gift, even all those idras incontrols and destinys charge way more....so to get this price from Savior himself seems like a gift from heaven
It ain't even cheap . I had piano lessons for 30 - 35 dollars for a month 2 hours per week . And i learned a heck of a lot more in that area then anyone could ever teach me in SC2 . In the end both SC2 and piano is all about practice . You have replays you have vods . You can mimic the builds the pros use adding your own variation or just make your own builds . Paying for starcraft lessons is a fucking rip off if you ask me , but at least Savior is charging cheaper then what nonsence i have seen from SC2 coaches and there is basically no better BW zerg coach out there . |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio | |
|
|
| koreasilver Canada. March 30 2012 06:54. Posts 7493 | Profile Blog # |
On March 30 2012 06:48 Kralic wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:46 koreasilver wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:45 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:39 koreasilver wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:30 Kralic wrote:
On March 30 2012 06:29 PowerDes wrote:
Lets change the title from "Match Fixing" to "Zerg Bonjwa".
He doesn't have claim to that title anymore. They took it away from him.
Who in the world are "they"?
Yeah, since Bonjwa is a fan-made unofficial title, I don't really see...
That is why I used the word they, because there is no way of actually proving that anyone took away a title that is not official.
I give up.
I give up as well. Sorry if I do not meet your posting standard about your hero.
This is why these threads are retarded. If you point out just how stupid someone's post is, then they immediately label you as their opposition. Across two pages I've been accused of being a "bisu fan" (anti-Savior) and as a Savior worshiper.
You guys are fucking stupid as all hell. Last edit: 2012-03-30 06:54:52 |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt | |
|
|
| Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next All | |
|
|
|
| |
|
|
