On March 29 2012 23:16 OpticalShot wrote: Very, very disappointed.
Savior was one of the core group involved in the scandal that triggered a huge crumble of the scene. Although arguable to some degree, his actions resulted in a dozen or so progamers and B-teamers losing their job and their career dreams. Moreover, it was openly admitted in the Adieu MBCGame program that Savior played an integral role in the eventual closing of MBCGame. On one hand, Savior is one hell of a cunning guy - he is still finding ways to milk the money out of the very business he destroyed himself. On the other hand, I can't imagine how much twisted evil thoughts reside in his mind...
I'll take the one positive thing from this news and hopefully remember that one only - there are still fans excited enough about the legendary game of SCBW that they'd pay good money for lessons from a publicly denounced figure.
You can be angry about what Savior did, but I think it's unfair to be angry at what Savior for what other players did. Everyone is responsible for themselves. A dozen or so other progamers got themselves involved, not Savior. If you're gonna blame Savior for getting them involved, let's go all the way up the ladder to the bad people Savior met that got him involved, k? Does that sounds stupid and make it seem like Savior wasn't responsible? That's why people have to be responsible for themselves.
He was in jail for a year, probation for 2. That doesn't look good on your resume. Being self-employed like this is probably one of the few things he can really do to sustain himself. Does he repent in other ways? I don't know. We have very little of the full story, but I maintain that he made stupid mistakes and was too worried about being cool with bad groups of people.
It's clear that Savior's actions contributed to the scandal, which in term contributed to troubled times for the scene, but neither were by themselves significant. As far as "twisted evil thoughts" ... Not much more twisted than the celebrities in every entertainment business who get rich fast, get involved with bad people, and ruin their careers. The only difference is that those industries see it as normal.
Savior never went to jail.
Last edit: 2012-03-30 00:32:48
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CosmicSpiral United States. March 30 2012 00:34. Posts 7564
On March 30 2012 00:27 Sethronu wrote: Is there any evidence whatsoever of Savior being a 'terrible, evil person' that so many haters picture him to be, other than the fact that he made a ridiculously stupid decision at one single point in his pro-gaming career? It's kind of far-fetched to paint him as some kind of an evil mastermind lurking in his dungeon, hatching plans of genocide and world domination...
No. It's just petty judgment and mob justice at this point in time.
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brachester Australia. March 30 2012 00:35. Posts 1751
Hmm, k, I get that what Savior did was wrong and all but what's the point of keep being angry about it? I mean you should know when to forgive people right? Like people have already mentioned, 2 years probation doesn't look good on your resume so maybe this is his last choice. Also people should stop looking things with black and white, "twisted evil thoughts"? lol. Though I can't agree with the paying fees to be in his fanclub, that's pretty low.
On March 29 2012 23:16 OpticalShot wrote: Very, very disappointed.
Savior was one of the core group involved in the scandal that triggered a huge crumble of the scene. Although arguable to some degree, his actions resulted in a dozen or so progamers and B-teamers losing their job and their career dreams. Moreover, it was openly admitted in the Adieu MBCGame program that Savior played an integral role in the eventual closing of MBCGame. On one hand, Savior is one hell of a cunning guy - he is still finding ways to milk the money out of the very business he destroyed himself. On the other hand, I can't imagine how much twisted evil thoughts reside in his mind...
I'll take the one positive thing from this news and hopefully remember that one only - there are still fans excited enough about the legendary game of SCBW that they'd pay good money for lessons from a publicly denounced figure.
You can be angry about what Savior did, but I think it's unfair to be angry at what Savior for what other players did. Everyone is responsible for themselves. A dozen or so other progamers got themselves involved, not Savior. If you're gonna blame Savior for getting them involved, let's go all the way up the ladder to the bad people Savior met that got him involved, k? Does that sounds stupid and make it seem like Savior wasn't responsible? That's why people have to be responsible for themselves.
He was in jail for a year, probation for 2. That doesn't look good on your resume. Being self-employed like this is probably one of the few things he can really do to sustain himself. Does he repent in other ways? I don't know. We have very little of the full story, but I maintain that he made stupid mistakes and was too worried about being cool with bad groups of people.
It's clear that Savior's actions contributed to the scandal, which in term contributed to troubled times for the scene, but neither were by themselves significant. As far as "twisted evil thoughts" ... Not much more twisted than the celebrities in every entertainment business who get rich fast, get involved with bad people, and ruin their careers. The only difference is that those industries see it as normal.
Savior never went to jail.
sentenced to 1 year imprisonment, 2 years probation on the 22nd of October 2010. His probation ends on the 22nd of June this year.
So what. He had a choice between a year of imprisonment or 2 years probation? Whether you think that's enough or not, he's still got a criminal record and lost his job.
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.Sic. United States. March 30 2012 00:39. Posts 492
On March 29 2012 23:43 ninini wrote: I'm not really bothered by this. I agree in him being banned from professional gaming, but I think that's enough. He should be able to play as an amateur or teach if he wants to. I just think it's sad that he can't let go of BW. He's a bright 24 year old, and he probably have enough money to invest into a new career. Plus, his BW career was kind of over when he was caught, so he should have moved on either way.
Isn't that pretty much impossible considering his criminal record? I can only imagine how hard it must be in S.Korea...
blubbdavid Switzerland. March 30 2012 00:48. Posts 2241
Yesyes, Savior made one stupid decision at one point at his life. Dude, he was not Neo whose one decision changed his whole life. Rather I am pretty sure he made this decision over a span of time. Things like these are never singular oneshot non-multistage non-multi-period non-dynamic decisions.
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Gamegene United States. March 30 2012 00:50. Posts 6609
On March 30 2012 00:35 brachester wrote: Hmm, k, I get that what Savior did was wrong and all but what's the point of keep being angry about it? I mean you should know when to forgive people right? Like people have already mentioned, 2 years probation doesn't look good on your resume so maybe this is his last choice. Also people should stop looking things with black and white, "twisted evil thoughts"? lol. Though I can't agree with the paying fees to be in his fanclub, that's pretty low.
I have no idea why people think it's so easy to forgive him, when the match fixing scandal ruined years of effort trying to build a scene from the ground up.
Last edit: 2012-03-30 01:02:24
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ne4aJIb Russian Federation. March 30 2012 00:50. Posts 1339
On March 30 2012 00:24 figq wrote: Another thing to note - it's respectable that he didn't try to do this "underground". Which would have been still legal, of course, but when people found out that Savior is making money from "secret" private lessons, they would probably find it even more disturbing. Instead - he chooses to be absolutely transparent about it, and about his price, and even stream it officially.
Gotta say, I admire the spirit of this guy, many others would find themselves psychologically ruined for life, perhaps drunk and useless. Instead he tries to give back to the community in the only way left open for him.
Why is that respectable? He's trying to get customers.
The idea that this is giving back to the community is absolutely laughable. He's trying to make money.
Last edit: 2012-03-30 00:54:43
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Iplaythings Denmark. March 30 2012 00:54. Posts 7054
I suppose he wants to make money where he can, can't say I blame him for trying since he probally doesn't have a steady source of income and can't do manual labour ala perfectman with his knee being as it is.
Well I'd rather blame people taking the lessons than him for making the opportunity for the lessons
An incredibly low price to have the greatest Zerg player ever coach you? Lol, anyone upset about this has to either be joking or heartless, come on, give the guy a break already. If I was into bw still, and if had extra cash right now, this would be an awesome thing to spend it on.
Oh, and really quick, random question that I've had for a while - does Savior's ban on Starcraft include SC2? Does anyone know? Too bad he doesn't switch to that, he'd probably have a lot more people willing to take lessons :D
On March 30 2012 00:56 Arceus wrote: I find it funny that ppl say $25 for 1.5 hours is dirt cheap but are reluctant to pay the same bucks for one season of GSL/MLG/etc
GSL season tickets don't exaclty make you a better player, though.
On March 30 2012 00:56 Arceus wrote: I find it funny that ppl say $25 for 1.5 hours is dirt cheap but are reluctant to pay the same bucks for one season of GSL/MLG/etc
I am not so sure about SK's living standard. But in Canada, you can make more than a living with the 25 bucks per 1.5 hours. That will include rent, electricity/gas bills, food and internet fees. On top of that, you are still able to place some superfluous income into your savings.
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Ilikestarcraft United States. March 30 2012 01:05. Posts 16576
I don't think his intention to make money is wrong because that is one of the reasons most people coach in the first place. Savior isn't really taking advantage of anyone. Its people's money and they can do what they want with it. If people are willing to offer money and are interested in being coached then why not. I personally think this is a better way than living off donations from his fans since hes actually being paid in exchange for something. Don't think anyone really has a legit reason to hate on what hes doing.
I would have to agree with Kona, he was a great player for the game up to a point, but he turned out to be a terrible person. He was young and dumb though which is still not really an excuse.
On March 30 2012 00:56 Arceus wrote: I find it funny that ppl say $25 for 1.5 hours is dirt cheap but are reluctant to pay the same bucks for one season of GSL/MLG/etc
I am not so sure about SK's living standard. But in Canada, you can make more than a living with the 25 bucks per 1.5 hours. That will include rent, electricity/gas bills, food and internet fees. On top of that, you are still able to place some superfluous income into your savings.
Depends where you live in Canada, every place is different.
Extremely controversial, but not wrong. Most people here can agree with one, he was great player(to say the least), he is coaching starcraft not match fixing.
supernovamaniac United States. March 30 2012 01:13. Posts 2232
At this point in time, translating articles like these only bring out the "ugly" of the community. It's better if articles about savior aren't translated at all (not saying that you shouldn't translate articles at all).
I still find it funny that people are talking about "oh, he made one wrong choice in life" "psh that wasn't a big deal, it's in the past" etc. Then let me ask you a question: Did you truly enjoy MyStarleague that they did instead of regular OSL season last year? Did you enjoy the long off-season of Proleague with speculations that it might not happen again (same goes for OSL)? Did you truly enjoy the news of MBC Game being shut down? If you said No to one of these questions, then I don't know what the fuck's wrong with you. Maybe you just didn't know how huge the impact of match fixing was, or you're just trying to runaway from the truth.
MyStarleague happened because OSL couldn't get any sponsors after Bacchus. Weird, huh? Last time OSL couldn't find sponsors was Daum Starleague and they just went ahead with the league without any sponsors. JinAir OSL sponsorship was announced sometime into the league, not before the group selection. And this upcoming OSL is in the same situation: still no sponsorship. When did the most prestigious league in BroodWar have hard time getting sponsorship in OSL, especially after the amazing finals like the reverse sweep in Korean Air season 1 and legend of the fall in Jin Air?
I don't even need to discuss MBCGame because I posted few pictures from MBCGame that directly proves that some "incidents" had an effect on closure of the station.
I'm just going to leave questions here. It is okay if you follow someone who's good at playing this game. But if you're going to ignore the facts, you might as well ignore the Korean BroodWar scene along with it.
EDIT: One last question: If this person did have huge impact on BW scene, is it still justifiable for him to make money off from something that he helped destroy?
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gullberg Sweden. March 30 2012 00:41. Posts 1265
