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The gruesome life of a games tester - Page 2

Forum Index > General Forum 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 All
 
 scDeluX   Canada. March 31 2012 00:29. Posts 1246
Profile Blog # 
The "developers often ignore the advice of QA testers" is true in pretty much all IT. Just the same as infrastructure guys don't listen to tech support. I'd think it's really worse in video game industry.

As for they don't get pay much, work overtime and have no employement security it could be said about a lot of jobs. Video game tester doesn't require studies, therefore you don't bring important expertise to your buisness and you threated that way.

I don't agree with this but sadly it's how our world works.
Bitcoin enthusiast
Old Post

 
 scDeluX   Canada. March 31 2012 00:31. Posts 1246
Profile Blog # 

On March 31 2012 00:25 Krowser wrote:

Can you post the article in a spoiler? Almost everything is blocked over here.

Thanks


+1. I'd like too. THAT WEBSENSE !!!!
Bitcoin enthusiast
Old Post

 
 DeVx   United States. March 31 2012 00:31. Posts 85
Profile # 
Speaking as a QA tester, I find the article lacks any real information about what's really happening. This person who wrote obviously never contacted HR for the contractors.

As game tester, yea it can get tedious at times because you won't see a new build for weeks, or worse months so you're stuck playing the same game over and over but that's what we're paid to do. I remember the longest I had to work was 36 days straight 12hr days.

If anything the reason why the developers don't like the QA testers in this article is because they're bragging to the developers telling THEM they need to change parts of the game. As a QA tester, our job isn't to tell the developer what needs to be changed, we inform them of bugs that are occurring and if the developers feel it's a bug that needs to be fixed they will, if they don't well no big deal, it's their game they'll get the bad review for it.


Old Post

 
 Podzz   United Kingdom. March 31 2012 00:35. Posts 14
Profile # 
QA is generally considered a rout into the games industry for more posts. This being the case you would expect to have to work hard to succeed and get noticed. No one is forced to do unpaid over time.

As for the long hours everyone is in the same boat. from the junior artists up to the directors. We work hard for a reason, because we love it.
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 Too_MuchZerg   Finland. March 31 2012 00:35. Posts 2728
Profile Blog # 

On March 31 2012 00:17 Jealous wrote:
My own experience with this job is similar. Especially the fact that the "developers often ignore the advice of QA testers." 100% true.


I never got advice from QA testers when I was game programmer. I guess designers got those from QA lead tester instead. But I did fix every bug I got from bug database. We chatted a lot with QA testers if we didn't manage to reproduce bug.

And I always told QA testers to mark bugs to database even how small it is or I fixed while he was talking to me.
Last edit: 2012-03-31 00:39:07
 
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 Equity213   Canada. March 31 2012 00:36. Posts 868
Profile # 
Its called supply and demand. If you dont like your job, quit. Theres tons of other people who would like to have it.
You would have played video games all day anyways. I dont get the outrage.
Last edit: 2012-03-31 00:36:59
Old Post

 
 Hairy   United Kingdom. March 31 2012 00:36. Posts 1045
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 00:26 TheToast wrote:
Also if someone is getting paid via an hourly wage, you cannot force them to work 92 hours per week without paying overtime. That's against federal law in the US and I am guessing the EU has fairly strict laws on this as well. I highly doubt these people are salaried. In the US overtime means time and a half, so $15 per hour which honestly isn't too bad for a menial occupation.

When you join any company you must sign a "terms of employment" contract (every employer will have a similar contract you sign). However, in games work this contract states you give up the right to overtime pay and that you accept to working more weekly hours. If you don't agree to this contract, you get no job.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
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 kanada   Canada. March 31 2012 00:42. Posts 228
Profile # 
this is why i don't understand sony's reality series to win a job as a tester.
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 ThatBronyGuy   United States. March 31 2012 00:47. Posts 169
Profile Blog # 
When I had finished school a couple years ago and was doing the job searching, I had actually applied for a couple positions at game companies and some of those positions did include game testing. Unfortunately, one thing that I came across is that the people they are looking for game testing usually need to be in the same area as the game company. In the listing, there would be a request for someone living in the Austin, TX area or somewhere on the West Coast. A little disheartening since I am from the East Coast and there really isn't much out this way. I suppose, in some way, it was a good thing for it not to happen.

Anyway, back more on topic, I would say that game testing would be a similar occupation to a normal McDonald's staff member. As others have said, these kinds of jobs are like lowest common denominator jobs where there are certainly skills needed to perform them, it's just that the skills can found in a wide range of people or, at least, can be taught. With such a wide base for possible employees, you can be easily seen as the next chopping block, if you were to get to a higher pay level, promotion, etc.

For example, "Why keep the same person on the team and pay him more when you can find a similar person and put him on the lowest pay scale?" That's something I can see project heads and other execs. saying.

If there was any meaningful change that could be in the works, I would say if would have to come from the top and go down. There's really nothing that the people in these positions can do and just not be replaced. It would have to take someone who understands what's going on and really want to affect change. It's a sad state that a part of the industry that we love to take part in has these seedy under-bellies that make it look so ugly. While I respect businesses and what a business can stand for, it's situations like these that really make me reflect on how I act in my own business environment and how I work with others, no matter what level they may be.
Last edit: 2012-03-31 00:47:43
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 Hairy   United Kingdom. March 31 2012 00:48. Posts 1045
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 00:36 Equity213 wrote:
Its called supply and demand. If you dont like your job, quit. Theres tons of other people who would like to have it.
You would have played video games all day anyways. I dont get the outrage.

Being a games QA / tester is VERY different from "playing video games all day". If you had actually read any of the article you would have known this.

This isn't anything particularly new though - it's well known that the games industry can have some pretty shitty working conditions and extreme overtime, and these conditions aren't restricted to only QA. It isn't a big secret either - anyone being caught out by this has simply not done their research into what the industry is like, or have wildly unrealistic expectations as to what being a games tester actually involves.
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
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 TheToast   United States. March 31 2012 00:52. Posts 4804
Profile Blog # 

On March 31 2012 00:29 scDeluX wrote:
As for they don't get pay much, work overtime and have no employement security it could be said about a lot of jobs. Video game tester doesn't require studies, therefore you don't bring important expertise to your buisness and you threated that way.

I don't agree with this but sadly it's how our world works.


Pretty much this. I don't see how being a game QA tester is any different from being a QA tester in a lightbulb factory. Some knowlege of the process and product is required, but for the most part you sit there all day and do the same thing over and over looking for defects in the product. When big orders come in, I'm sure you'd be doing long hours there as well.


On March 31 2012 00:36 Hairy wrote:

Show nested quote +


When you join any company you must sign a "terms of employment" contract (every employer will have a similar contract you sign). However, in games work this contract states you give up the right to overtime pay and that you accept to working more weekly hours. If you don't agree to this contract, you get no job.


I guess this is the only part of this that I would find annoying. But then, I guess you should get a different job. The lightbulb factory probably even has a union.
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
Old Post

 
 Roflhaxx   Norway. March 31 2012 00:56. Posts 1011
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 00:31 scDeluX wrote:

Show nested quote +



+1. I'd like too. THAT WEBSENSE !!!!

I have copied the whole thing into spoiler now. Deliberately didn't do it at first so that people would actually bother to read original article instead of my copy.
A game where the first thing you do is scout with a “worker”. Does that make any sense? Who scouts with a “worker”? That’s like sending out the janitor to perform recon, what general would do that? Retarded game.
Old Post

 
 haegN   Norway. March 31 2012 01:02. Posts 473
Profile # 
I wonder why you put "force". I see no forcing of any kind, these people are working there voluntarily! I agree that this isnt the best way to treat your employees, but if they dont like it, they can just change jobs.
None can give you skills, ubermicro, wins or anything. If you are man - you take it!
Old Post

 
 paralleluniverse   Australia. March 31 2012 01:05. Posts 2972
Profile # 

On March 30 2012 23:50 Roflhaxx wrote:
Came over an article on IGN where they have talked to some guys who work with QA at several companies. They have been forced to work 92/h a week for months without pay (crunchtime, like with devs). And I should mention that while working this much the hours they are actually paid for they only make 10$ an hour!!
They are all anonymous so we do not know what companies they work for, but one of them says that he worked on testing skyrim.

One thing the article mentions that is really relevant for us gamers The truth, according to Phil, is that "many reported bugs don't get fixed." Furthermore, developers often ignore the advice of QA testers.

Here is a quote from the article

Because playing videogames all day as a career has been heavily glamorized, companies are never at a loss for willing recruits. "Everyone in QA is expendable," says Frank. Reuben adds, "If management doesn't like someone, they just refuse to renew their contract, thus avoiding any hassle at all. This leads to people who start asking questions about workload and length to be branded as trouble makers and their contracts are simply not extended."

Another quote I find very offensive is

While financial benefits are one form of compensation, Danny believes that respect is also severely lacking. "We deserve to be treated like regular employees, instead of someone you don't invite to your Christmas party but then tell them to have their own last minute [party] in another building through the back entrance...True story."

Link to article (IGN)



All this makes me wonder, is there really no kind of security for workers in USA? Can you really be forced to work like this? Don't you have some kind of labour inspection people you can contact?

Article linked in spoiler, but if you can of course go to ign's website to read this, support people who write these kinds of articles.
+ Show Spoiler +

92 hours a week...

WTF.

That's over 13 hours a day.
Check out "Shadow of the Eternals" on Kickstarter
Old Post

 
 Roflhaxx   Norway. March 31 2012 01:07. Posts 1011
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 01:02 haegN wrote:
I wonder why you put "force". I see no forcing of any kind, these people are working there voluntarily! I agree that this isnt the best way to treat your employees, but if they dont like it, they can just change jobs.

Its not "just change jobs" these days with the unemployment rate rising it's even worse, and these people who do genuine work gets treated even worse than people who work illegally here. (without work permit)
A game where the first thing you do is scout with a “worker”. Does that make any sense? Who scouts with a “worker”? That’s like sending out the janitor to perform recon, what general would do that? Retarded game.
Old Post

 
 klo8   Austria. March 31 2012 01:16. Posts 831
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 00:36 Equity213 wrote:
Its called supply and demand. If you dont like your job, quit. Theres tons of other people who would like to have it.
You would have played video games all day anyways. I dont get the outrage.

This here is bullshit. QA testing is nothing like "playing video games all day". You play certain sections of a game over and over and over to find bugs, you try purposefully to break the game to expose bad design and that's it. No "oh, I'm just gonna run around in Skyrim all day weeeee!".
This post is clearly not a hurr, as you can see from the graph, the durr never intersects with the derp.
Old Post

 
 Nevermind86   Somalia. March 31 2012 01:20. Posts 410
Profile # 

On March 31 2012 00:14 Spidinko wrote: Quit and get a better job. Why are you punishing people that have nothing to do with it? That's a terrorist thinking.


More and more in this forum and over other forums I see the word terrorist thrown in so many situations, it's very scary... the fact that people accept it more and more, government and media propaganda are changing the language making an enemy of every possible person to justify whatever actions, the light use of the word is proof that it's getting implanted in our minds. It's totally offtopic but in my country Venezuela, in our history terrorist acts were in the legislation after the late 50's but not a single case was considered a terrorist act until recently, in the last few years a few acts have been labeled terrorism which carry a 30 year sentence, which is like 7 times more the punition that what would normally be if it wasn't labeled as terrorism... "Punishing people... that have nothing to do with it?... "a terrorist's thinking...", sounds like a quote from 1984.
Last edit: 2012-03-31 01:26:58
Interviewer: Many people hate you and would like to see you dead. How does that make you feel? Trevor Goodchild: Those people should get to know me a little better. Then they'd know I don't indulge in feelings.
Old Post

 
 Holytornados   United States. March 31 2012 01:28. Posts 625
Profile # 
Even if labor officials were to be contacted, a lot of state's are what is called "right-to-work" states.

This basically means that they can be fired for any or no reason at all, without question. The state I live in is one such state.

Even if you contacted anyone about possible labor violations, you could be let go/have your contract not renewed for speaking out. I'm sure there will be someone to replace you in a short amount of time.
I need your love like a boy needs his mother's side.
Old Post

 
 TheAngryZergling   United States. March 31 2012 01:30. Posts 335
Profile # 
The knowledge that games testers have some of the worst working conditions amongst jobs in first world countries has been known for well over a decade. Just a quick look into the career when I was 15 or so made that obvious. So I have zero sympathy for people who put themselves in that position. Its a shitty job that stupid people continue to flock to. I would think eventually the public perception would catch up to the reality, the applicant pool will shrink, and those remaining in the field will start getting at least a few of the working condition improvements they deserve.


Also, virtually ALL software complex enough to have commercial value is going to have bugs. No matter how many smart, talented coders and testers are thrown at the project.
Everything in life is most clearly explained through a Starcraft analogy.
Old Post

 
 TheToast   United States. March 31 2012 01:31. Posts 4804
Profile Blog # 

On March 31 2012 01:28 Holytornados wrote:
Even if labor officials were to be contacted, a lot of state's are what is called "right-to-work" states.

This basically means that they can be fired for any or no reason at all, without question. The state I live in is one such state.

Even if you contacted anyone about possible labor violations, you could be let go/have your contract not renewed for speaking out. I'm sure there will be someone to replace you in a short amount of time.


No, Right to Work means you can choose not to be a part of a Union. That is, if your work place votes to establish a union you as an individual can choose not to be a member of the union and not have to pay Union dues.

All other Federal and State employment laws still apply.
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
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