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| 07Ghost April 02 2012 04:45. Posts 3 | Profile # |
If you have been following the gsl for these two couple days, you would know that MVPDongRaeGu (DRG) has fallen into last place in the Code S Ro32, which is a very big surprise to many people. Since DRG has been placing good in foreign tournaments and won the last GSL; however, here he just got knocked out right away, and it's not even his opponent cheese him but legitimately beats him in a solid ZvT macro game.
GSL Code S has gotten extremely competitive. New players break into a new level entry and set a different standard. The game is constantly evolving. I feel like I'm not really comfortable with this new GSL system, as players who lose the first round automatically going to Code A. I'm pretty sure DRG will come back but there is a possibility he would get knocked out since he has to play code A rd1. This just seems too drastic for the penalty.
Also, I want to say that at this moment, anything can happen. SC2 is still a very young game, so there are still a lot of rooms for improvement, which is why you get to see these new players may beat one of your favorite sc2 progamers. Right now, I feel like none of the progamers in sc2 is the best, as you see good players like mvp, nestea, mc, mkp, and now DRG all have been upset by newcomers and got down to code A. This is why sometime I dislike when people claim like nestea/DRG is the best zerg in the world, or mvp is the best terran. It is a pretty bold statement to say xx player is the best of this race player right now, and then a week later he just got knocked out of the first round of Code S. The sc2 progamers, so far what I have seen, hasn't put up the consistency compare to broodwar players perform. I mean when you claim someone as the best zerg player, it means he has been consistent in his performance throughout his progaming career. No sc2 progamers has reached that level, so I feel like at this point anything is possible and people shouldn't get fuss over it because one of your favorite players got knocked out by a random dude.Last edit: 2012-04-02 13:47:38 |
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| Seohce United Kingdom. April 02 2012 04:50. Posts 373 | Profile # |
| A great, insightful post. Thank you. |
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| bLah. Croatia. April 02 2012 04:51. Posts 467 | Profile # |
Just because they have 1 bad tournament and fall down doesn't mean they're not consistent. I mean, take a look at MKP:
 MarineKing
He was 2nd in the 2010 Sony Ericsson Starcraft II Open Season 2 and now year and a half later he's wining MLGs in a row. That's not consistent enough?
I mean DRG gets silver at MLG and falls down to code A in GSL, that doesn't mean slump, that's just 1 bad day.
Don't look at only GSLs like some linear line which automatically shows how volatile is something. DRG is best example. in a span of just few days he gets silver at mlg and falls down in gsl, that's called having a bad day, not slumping or a reason not to call him one of the best zergs out thereLast edit: 2012-04-02 04:53:27 |
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| howLiN Portugal. April 02 2012 04:54. Posts 1527 | Profile Blog # |
The reason GSL has this format is because when players didn't automatically fall to Code A there would be a lot of players who were clearly not Code S material but they would hang on because the system wouldn't be as punishing as it should be.
The new system is fine. DRG is perfectly capable of winning the three Bo3s that await him in Code A in order to get straight into Code S again. And if he doesn't, I guess he isn't Code S material after all. |
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| alpinefpOPP United States. April 02 2012 04:54. Posts 134 | Profile Blog # |
| It is crazy that he has to go to code a rd1 i agree that is rough but i don't think he's falling off. |
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| Kich United States. April 02 2012 04:57. Posts 338 | Profile # |
On April 02 2012 04:45 07Ghost wrote:
If you have been following the gsl for these two couple days, you would know that MVPDongRaeGu (DRG) has fallen into last place in the Code S Ro32, which is a very big surprise to many people. Since DRG has been placing good in foreign tournaments and won the last GSL; however, here he just got knocked out right away, and it's not even his opponent cheese him but legitimately beats him in a solid ZvT macro game.
GSL Code S has gotten extremely competitive. New players break into a new level entry and set a different standard. The game is constantly evolving. I feel like I'm not really comfortable with this new GSL system, as players who lose the first round automatically going to Code A. I'm pretty sure DRG will come back but there is a possibility he would get knocked out since he has to play code A rd1. This just seems too drastic for the penalty.
Also, I want to say that at this moment, anything can happen. SC2 is still a very young game, so there are still a lot of rooms for improvement, which is why you get to see these new players may knock one of your favorite sc2 progamers. Right now, I feel like none of the progamers in sc2 is the best, as you see good players like mvp, nestea, mc, mkp, and now DRG all have been upset by newcomers and got down to code A. This is why sometime I dislike when people claim like nestea/DRG is the best zerg in the world, or mvp is the best terran. It is a pretty bold statement to say xx player is the best this race player right now, and then a week later he just got knocked out of the first round of Code S. The sc2 progamers, so far what I have seen, hasn't put up the consistency compare to broodwar players perform. I mean when you claim someone as the best zerg player, it means he has been consistent in his performance throughout his progaming career. No sc2 progamers has reached that level, so I feel like at this point anything is possible and people shouldn't get fuss over it because one of your favorite players got knocked out by a random dude.
This is patently false, DRG is the best zerg right now and he's shown it at a consistent level. He won the GSL Code S, he got second place at Winter Arena and he got second place at MLG Winter, MarineKingPrime took first in both of those events and is looking to have a serious shot through Code S.
Also, Taeja is nothing to fuck with--he fights a little scrappy right now and his wins were honestly paper-thin, but he got there against DRG and Jjakji which is damn impressive. |
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| Bkennedy United States. April 02 2012 04:59. Posts 262 | Profile # |
| Yeah, DRG losing two best of threes with possible jetlag is not an indicator of anything. |
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 SupLilSon Malaysia. April 02 2012 05:04. Posts 3172 | Profile # |
| There are too many factors determining who wins an SC2 match outside of skill. The game isn't BW, there probably will never be a champion/Flash figure in SC2. Too much luck and coinflip in this game. |
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| LeeDawg United States. April 02 2012 05:06. Posts 718 | Profile # |
the game is so volatile right now, it's really hard for someone to dominate like the bonjwas of BW.
plus cheese/all-ins are so strong, good players can lose to mediocre players with shocking frequency. |
| | minigun, bisu, parting, creator, kiwikaki, flash, fantasy, axslav |  |
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 lorkac United States. April 02 2012 05:09. Posts 2297 | Profile Blog # |
| Goes to the final round in only 5 out of 6 main tournaments in a row while winning 1 of them--obvious slump. |
| | By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography |  |
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| sandman1454 United States. April 02 2012 05:11. Posts 96 | Profile # |
| The reason people say DRG is the best zerg in the world and that MVP is the best terran is because Tasteless and Artosis say it. Doesnt mean its factual, it is just their opinion, but they state it as fact, and i feel like that is what bothers the OP about how casters just say things as if they are fact, when its not proven. Although im not sure if they say it just to hype up the match or not, but they say it consistently about the same players. If they say ONE of the best, then thats 100% fine and true, but THE BEST is a completely different story. (any replys i get about these players being THE best in the world or about what i said about artosis and tasteless, i dont believe u and we probably have different opinions about what it means to be the best in the world). |
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| Luepert United States. April 02 2012 05:12. Posts 1705 | Profile Blog # |
| Wanna look at champions falling off, look at MVP and nestea. |
| | Proud owner of the Incredible Miracle fanclub. |  |
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| mcleod Canada. April 02 2012 05:12. Posts 341 | Profile # |
you also have to realize everyone in korea is very good, DRG is only slightly better in certain things
the competitive level there is so high, that if your not playing at 100% you can literally lose to any pro korean |
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| strongandbig United States. April 02 2012 05:15. Posts 3253 | Profile Blog # |
| I think we should stop saying someone "fell to code A" unless they're in code a at the start of the next season. Otherwise the vast majority of players who are actually code s level will always fall to code a each season based on the luck of the group draw, and yet we act like it'a a big deal (because it used to be a big deal.). 3/4 of code s will have to go to code a at some point iirc. (16 from ro32 and another 8 from ro16). There are only 8 players who don't "fall to code A." |
| | [QUOTE][B]On March 20 2013 14:51 WaveofShadow wrote:[/B] I don't know much about Coag, but he doesn't seem like the type of guy who goes against the grain just for kicks. [/QUOTE] |  |
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| steelcurtain09 United States. April 02 2012 05:16. Posts 72 | Profile # |
I'm not really sure what the final conclusion of this post is...
I also feel like each of these topics has been discussed to death.
GOM changed over the GSL formant because too many of players who were the lucky few to get in off of the open seasons just were not Code S material. But, because of the GSL format, three-fourths of Code S got to stay each season and these players were never knocked out. Now you can have a bad day and get knocked down to Code A, but if you are Code S material, it is a lot easier to make it back.
We are all in agreement that SC2 is still a young game. The game is definitely evolving. There will be a new best strategy every week or so as they are discovered. In comparison, Brood War has pretty much been figured out and there are very few "new" strategies being created. We will have to wait until Blizzard is done patching and releasing expos before we settle into the same type of level that Brood War is at. Everybody remembers all of the SlayerS players coming to MLG Anaheim with their hellion build which surprised everyone. It killed virtually everyone it faced, but even by the end of that MLG there were already counters being discovered to defeat it.
You can have a "best player" just because of how strongly they are playing. There is no need to compare them to the consistency of Brood War pros. Like I just said, a player can be surprised by a brand new build and be beaten. Also, with the ability for players to watch replays the "best player" will be studied so that he can be taken down.
I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't get into a fuss about our favorite players getting knocked out by a rando, but there will always be people who get upset because their favorite player loses to someone who is worse than him. |
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| bLah. Croatia. April 02 2012 05:17. Posts 467 | Profile # |
This is silly. If the game is so volatile then explain why top 10 people in GSL last year
2011 GSL Points
have so much more points that rest of the list? And if you remember foreign tournaments you'll see that they even dominated those ones too.
You're comparing it to bw but how many times did it happen that same person wins MSL and OSL in the same season? |
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| Golgotha Korea (South). April 02 2012 05:18. Posts 6390 | Profile Blog # |
| the game is evolving and still volatile. it's not their fault for inconsistency and lack of dominance. hopefully once hots and void are out and about, the game will enable players to achieve mechanical and strategical superiority of great heights due to the increase in skill ceiling. |
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| Wildmoon Thailand. April 02 2012 05:27. Posts 2712 | Profile # |
| If you look at MVP record in 2011 then I think you can call that consistent. He still doesn't go anywhere. He is still in code S. If you think it's so volatile then just look at top players's winrate. It's not really less than BW top players. |
| | "A man is what he chooses to be" | |
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| Xarles April 02 2012 05:30. Posts 265 | Profile # |
On April 02 2012 05:11 sandman1454 wrote:
The reason people say DRG is the best zerg in the world and that MVP is the best terran is because Tasteless and Artosis say it. Doesnt mean its factual, it is just their opinion, but they state it as fact, and i feel like that is what bothers the OP about how casters just say things as if they are fact, when its not proven. Although im not sure if they say it just to hype up the match or not, but they say it consistently about the same players. If they say ONE of the best, then thats 100% fine and true, but THE BEST is a completely different story. (any replys i get about these players being THE best in the world or about what i said about artosis and tasteless, i dont believe u and we probably have different opinions about what it means to be the best in the world).
Hmm I say that not because DRG is the most accomplished but he has been beasting it up pretty recently not counting this bad week he's had, and also because none of the other zerg have been performing at his level recently.
Mvp's wrist injuries really are taking too much of a toll on him to call him the currently best Terran, although most accomplished Terran I'll give you that.
Leenock has been underperforming since his GSL runner-up and NesTea while still a threat to anyone, he does tend to have those moments where he does something that flies in the face of reason and loses his games. |
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| 00Visor April 02 2012 05:37. Posts 4067 | Profile Blog # |
On April 02 2012 04:45 07Ghost wrote:
The sc2 progamers, so far what I have seen, hasn't put up the consistency compare to broodwar players perform. I mean when you claim someone as the best zerg player, it means he has been consistent in his performance throughout his progaming career. No sc2 progamers has reached that level, so I feel like at this point anything is possible and people shouldn't get fuss over it because one of your favorite players got knocked out by a random dude.
TheSTC and jjakji are no random dudes.
Please name broodwar players (other than Flash) who are so damn consistent.
Jaedong winrate: 68%
Bisu winrate: 66%
Players like Boxer, July, Nada are @55-60% over their whole career.
MVP winrate: 67%
Nestea winrate: 67%
DRG winrate: 65%
I don't see a big difference. Even the best players lose. In every game. |
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