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| JinDesu United States. April 03 2012 09:57. Posts 3380 | Profile Blog # |
I apologize for the terrible topic title, 50 characters max severely limited what I could put there to make sense. Mod changed my title, all is good now
Let me make up for that here, before I post the article link and content. U.S. Supreme Court rules in a 5:4 decision that the 4th Amendment (Right against unreasonable search) does not protect against strips earch
If anyone can think of a 50 character title to replace my current one, I'd be very happy to hear them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/us/justices-approve-strip-searches-for-any-offense.html?_r=1&hp
Some critical pieces from the article:
The Supreme Court on Monday ruled by a 5-to-4 vote that officials may strip-search people arrested for any offense, however minor, before admitting them to jails even if the officials have no reason to suspect the presence of contraband.
Justice Stephen G. Breyer, writing for the four dissenters, said the strip-searches the majority allowed were “a serious affront to human dignity and to individual privacy” and should be used only when there was good reason to do so. ... Citing examples from briefs submitted to the Supreme Court, Justice Breyer wrote that people have been subjected to “the humiliation of a visual strip-search” after being arrested for driving with a noisy muffler, failing to use a turn signal and riding a bicycle without an audible bell.
Justice Kennedy responded that “people detained for minor offenses can turn out to be the most devious and dangerous criminals.” He noted that Timothy McVeigh, later put to death for his role in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, was first arrested for driving without a license plate. “One of the terrorists involved in the Sept. 11 attacks was stopped and ticketed for speeding just two days before hijacking Flight 93,” Justice Kennedy added.
The case decided Monday, Florence v. County of Burlington, No. 10-945, arose from the arrest of Albert W. Florence in New Jersey in 2005. Mr. Florence was in the passenger seat of his BMW when a state trooper pulled his wife, April, over for speeding. A records search revealed an outstanding warrant for Mr. Florence’s arrest based on an unpaid fine. (The information was wrong; the fine had been paid.)
Mr. Florence was held for a week in jails in Burlington and Essex Counties, and he was strip-searched in each. There is some dispute about the details, but general agreement that he was made to stand naked in front of a guard who required him to move intimate parts of his body. The guards did not touch him.
The majority and dissenting opinions drew differing conclusions from the available information about the amount of contraband introduced into jails and how much strip-searches add to pat-downs and metal detectors.
So first and foremost - I heavily disagree with Justice Kennedy's statements of how people detained for minor offenses could be the most terrible criminals and that's one of his reasoning for supporting this ruling.
My understanding of this ruling is that it is specifically stating that the 4th amendment does not protect against strip searches. The ruling does not explicitly say strip searches can be done regardless of offense, but it removes any requirement before a officer of the law can do a strip search. I feel that this is a bit too far - strip searches implies a person is going to an extreme to hid contraband, and I cannot imagine of many situations where a person goes to that extreme and is not noticed (airports have scanners, prisons tend to monitor almost everything you do, etc).
I am afraid that this ruling, along with some of the wording used by the judges, is meant to use strip searches to "embarass" people in minor offenses to not commit future offenses. That is terrifying to me.
EDIT#1 - The ruling seems to cover strip searches as performed in prison; I do not think it applies to people who have not been arrested.Last edit: 2012-04-03 10:52:22 |
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| NexUmbra Scotland. April 03 2012 09:59. Posts 2877 | Profile Blog # |
| rofl, so many threads on this thread which are just so fucked up... |
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| BlackJack United States. April 03 2012 09:59. Posts 6651 | Profile Blog # |
| How about "SCOTUS: Jail strip searches constitutional" for a title |
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| JinDesu United States. April 03 2012 10:00. Posts 3380 | Profile Blog # |
On April 03 2012 09:59 BlackJack wrote: How about "SCOTUS: Jail strip searches constitutional" for a title
Thank you, and whichever mod made the change. I didn't even think to abbreviate the Supreme Court of the United States as SCOTUS (even though I saw it in a few other threads). |
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Myles United States. April 03 2012 10:03. Posts 4074 | Profile Blog # |
| Pretty disappointing decision. I don't understand why a regular search wouldn't do. And Justice Kennedy's reasoning is downright scary. We should all be treated as mass murderers any time we commit the smallest of infractions. I hope I'm interpreting that wrong. Last edit: 2012-04-03 10:08:55 |
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| FabledIntegral United States. April 03 2012 10:06. Posts 8365 | Profile Blog # |
| I think Justice Kennedy's reasoning is absolute laughable. Sure, they could be. But how is that relevant? I got a speeding ticket a year ago, now I'm more likely to be a terrorist? Utterly ridiculous, I don't even remotely comprehend such logic. |
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| HellRoxYa Sweden. April 03 2012 10:07. Posts 1522 | Profile # |
| This sounds to me like more police officers will frequently be accused of harassing people in the near future. Beyond belief that this went through. |
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| UmiNotsuki United States. April 03 2012 10:07. Posts 633 | Profile Blog # |
This is rather horrifying. It really terrifies me what a few corrupt or simply bad cops might do in the way of sexually harrassing and/or abusing prisoners in the name of a strip search. It's not hard to imagine that a cop might pull over some attractive lady and, because he needs no permission to do so, force her to strip in front of him.
Chilling. Hope it's revisited and overturned, though I know it's unlikely. |
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tree.hugger Saint Paul, MN. April 03 2012 10:10. Posts 8971 | Profile Blog # |
So the 4th Amdenment says: + Show Spoiler +"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
and it seems to me that simply the act of being arrested (for a broken taillight, for biking without a proper bell, to use Justice Breyer's examples) isn't enough probable cause to justify the 'violation' of 'the right of people to be secure in their persons'.
Moreover, considering the individual liberty argument the court seems to be following in the ACA oral arguments, I'm really confused as to how the state could have the ability to order people to strip naked and undergo a close visual examination, yet not have the ability to force people to pay a extremely small fine for not having health insurance.
So this is a little weird.
It also seems to ignore the extreme history of racial bias and unfair treatment based on race in the US correctional system. The petitioner; Mr. Florence, was black, and was mistakenly arrested and held for six days on the charge of not paying a fine he had clearly paid. This SCOTUS ruling seems like it could allow a lot of what would normally be seen as harassment.Last edit: 2012-04-03 10:13:16 |
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| Bibbit Canada. April 03 2012 10:12. Posts 4509 | Profile Blog # |
On April 03 2012 10:07 UmiNotsuki wrote: This is rather horrifying. It really terrifies me what a few corrupt or simply bad cops might do in the way of sexually harrassing and/or abusing prisoners in the name of a strip search. It's not hard to imagine that a cop might pull over some attractive lady and, because he needs no permission to do so, force her to strip in front of him.
Chilling. Hope it's revisited and overturned, though I know it's unlikely.
I'm not sure but I think I've heard before that you gotta get a female police officer to do it if you're gonna be body searching women. |
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| BlackJack United States. April 03 2012 10:12. Posts 6651 | Profile Blog # |
It seems the article is a little misleading in that it says strip searches are okay for any offense, no matter how minor, for those that are entered into the general population. Well if their offense is really that minor then maybe they won't be entered into the general population at all, meaning a strip search won't be necessary.
Here's what Justice Alito wrote
"Most of those arrested for minor offenses are not dangerous, and most are released from custody prior to or at the time of their initial appearance before a magistrate," Alito wrote. "For these persons, admission to the general jail population, with the concomitant humiliation of a strip search, may not be reasonable, particularly if an alternative procedure is feasible."
edit: wrong about which justice wrote thatLast edit: 2012-04-03 10:15:47 |
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| Gerbeeros April 03 2012 10:12. Posts 101 | Profile # |
| I would not want to be the subject of strip search and i would not want to be the officer doing a strip search based on some minor offence. Humiliating for both sides in my opinion. Last edit: 2012-04-03 10:13:21 |
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| DeepElemBlues United States. April 03 2012 10:16. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
| Silly ruling, just as silly as Terry v. Ohio. |
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| JinDesu United States. April 03 2012 10:18. Posts 3380 | Profile Blog # |
On April 03 2012 10:12 BlackJack wrote:It seems the article is a little misleading in that it says strip searches are okay for any offense, no matter how minor, for those that are entered into the general population. Well if their offense is really that minor then maybe they won't be entered into the general population at all, meaning a strip search won't be necessary. Here's what Justice Alito wrote Show nested quote + "Most of those arrested for minor offenses are not dangerous, and most are released from custody prior to or at the time of their initial appearance before a magistrate," Alito wrote. "For these persons, admission to the general jail population, with the concomitant humiliation of a strip search, may not be reasonable, particularly if an alternative procedure is feasible."
edit: wrong about which justice wrote that
I agree that the article is a little misleading - but my current understanding is that the Justices ruled that the 4th amendment does not cover strip searches. That seems to be just a little overarching to me...
On April 03 2012 10:10 tree.hugger wrote:So the 4th Amdenment says: + Show Spoiler +"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." and it seems to me that simply the act of being arrested (for a broken taillight, for biking without a proper bell, to use Justice Breyer's examples) isn't enough probable cause to justify the 'violation' of 'the right of people to be secure in their persons'. Moreover, considering the individual liberty argument the court seems to be following in the ACA oral arguments, I'm really confused as to how the state could have the ability to order people to strip naked and undergo a close visual examination, yet not have the ability to force people to pay a extremely small fine for not having health insurance. So this is a little weird. It also seems to ignore the extreme history of racial bias and unfair treatment based on race in the US correctional system. The petitioner; Mr. Florence, was black, and was mistakenly arrested and held for six days on the charge of not paying a fine he had clearly paid. This SCOTUS ruling seems like it could allow a lot of what would normally be seen as harassment.
I do quite agree. The ruling seems very odd to me, and seeing the 4:5 vote it must have been pretty controversial to the Justices.
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Praetorial United States. April 03 2012 10:19. Posts 3631 | Profile Blog # |
I like this ruling.
It shows that some of the justices are willing to allow government inspection even with no suspicion.
Because of that, Kennedy may hopefully switch sides in Florida v. Department of Health and Human Services. |
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| DeepElemBlues United States. April 03 2012 10:21. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
I agree that the article is a little misleading - but my current understanding is that the Justices ruled that the 4th amendment does not cover strip searches. That seems to be just a little overarching to me...
Roberts said exceptions to the ruling may need to be addressed in future opinions... which means never, pretty much. Whenever they say that, it's code for "state legislatures, deal with this." |
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| semantics April 03 2012 10:22. Posts 8558 | Profile Blog # |
| ?? my reading of this, well the sane reading not the taken to extremes is that a strip search is legal upon probable cause used at digression of the officer. As in it's a judgment call based on circumstance post arrest meaning it wouldn't always be legal just legal in certain circumstances meaning the exact rules for reasons to commit to a strip search will end up being decided in the states and counties. I just see arrested for any crime as putting the reason for arrest is only as important as the circumstances before and after the arrest. But i get where this is going about the idea of unreasonable and humiliation of nudity and the idea that a person arrested is not a person convicted nor is a person arrested necessarily gets sent to a state jail or even local. The are graver injustices committed post arrest then submitted to a strip search but i just don't see the reason why this expansion of power is necessary.. Last edit: 2012-04-03 10:23:32 |
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| garbanzo United States. April 03 2012 10:23. Posts 2961 | Profile # |
Justice Kennedy responded that “people detained for minor offenses can turn out to be the most devious and dangerous criminals.” He noted that Timothy McVeigh, later put to death for his role in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, was first arrested for driving without a license plate. “One of the terrorists involved in the Sept. 11 attacks was stopped and ticketed for speeding just two days before hijacking Flight 93,” Justice Kennedy added.
What the fuck does that even mean? That is the most worthless argument ever. So Justice Kennedy believes that strip searching them would have somehow kept them from committing their acts? How? By humiliating them? Or by finding their dastardly plans hidden inside their butt cheeks? Seriously, what the fuck? This decision really pisses me off. |
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| oggy Norway. April 03 2012 10:23. Posts 32 | Profile # |
Pretty scary that a supreme court justice can be such a moron. His argument is that people who commit minor offenses somtimes turn out to be serious criminals?
Since that is true for people in general, minor offense or not, one would have to show there to be significantly increased risk of it for those particular people for the argument to work at all.
Wholly apart from that there is the issue of letting a slightly increased likelihood of finding something in a certain group of people erode the rights of that entire group.
I also don't get how there isn't some rule of relevancy, how does strip searching apply to someone with a loose license-plate or a speeding violation, wtfwfwtfwtf? |
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| Doublemint Austria. April 03 2012 10:23. Posts 2736 | Profile # |
| I really don´t see how the principle of proportionality is upheld here. Rather sad decision and questionable argumentation of Kennedy with the "people detained for minor offenses can turn out to be the most devious and dangerous criminals" part. To be fair I did not read his whole reasoning, but still - I find that disturbing that it´s ok for him in light of the mere possibility someone may be a dangerous criminal to lessen everyone elses freedom significantly. |
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