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 CommanchyWattkins Canada. April 04 2012 09:59. Posts 117 | Profile # |
Hi
http://drop.sc/151346
I'm in silver vs a gold zerg. Started out with a failed 4 gate, I didn't want to give up so i took expansion and carried on like any other game. To my surprise, my opponent sucked more than me  I actually had more probes ^__^. I manage to block off his first roach push but lost quite a lot of sentries. Should have built cannons and walked off.
I saw all his lings and roaches so I made collosus. Near the end, we get this big battle where he surrounds my army with lings but we traded armies and mines was way more expensiver than his. I wasn't thinking he was going to go mutas and I gg'ed because no anti air and no blink.
1) didnt chrono forge
2) didnt get anti air
3) didnt get charge for big battle
4) ***** Wait for more collosus?****
This came as a surprise because I thought zerg would have had like 5 bases already but he stayed on 3 base. So scouting is very important and I didn't do much scouting the whole game, should have done hallucinations.
questions:
What should be my army comp vs roach ling? and how many collosus is good? What about mothership? |
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| Jo3M3tal United States. April 04 2012 10:27. Posts 7 | Profile # |
1. are your probes 100%?
2. are you never poplocked?
3. forge/robos always going 100%?
If you satisfy all three then we can talk strategy. If your 4gate fails you basically lose, but you can try to make a robo an expo and continue if you do enough damage. If he was on 3 base and you are on 2 he can keep making roaches and break you assuming that you can't keep your sentry immortal and/or colossus count up. Very important to be macroing perfectly to hold off 3 base roach pressure in pvz. Also, don't make zealots vs roaches Try making pure stalker in all three matchups (follow up with colossus if you insist) you can get to plat+ with nothing but stalkers easy and it teaches you the importance of probes pylons and production while using your army. |
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| Iridium Sweden. April 04 2012 11:10. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On April 04 2012 10:27 Jo3M3tal wrote:1. are your probes 100%? 2. are you never poplocked? 3. forge/robos always going 100%? If you satisfy all three then we can talk strategy. If your 4gate fails you basically lose, but you can try to make a robo an expo and continue if you do enough damage. If he was on 3 base and you are on 2 he can keep making roaches and break you assuming that you can't keep your sentry immortal and/or colossus count up. Very important to be macroing perfectly to hold off 3 base roach pressure in pvz. Also, don't make zealots vs roaches Try making pure stalker in all three matchups (follow up with colossus if you insist) you can get to plat+ with nothing but stalkers easy and it teaches you the importance of probes pylons and production while using your army.
This! Heavilly upgraded stalkers are great! As for your other questions, i'd recommend somewhere around 6 colossus in lategame. As for mothership, you don't really need it because you can win games solely through outmacroing your opponent. But if you really want to use it, i recomend you to get it out as he gets his broodlords. |
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| DanceSC United States. April 04 2012 13:17. Posts 584 | Profile Blog # |
On April 04 2012 10:27 Jo3M3tal wrote:1. are your probes 100%? 2. are you never poplocked? 3. forge/robos always going 100%? If you satisfy all three then we can talk strategy. If your 4gate fails you basically lose, but you can try to make a robo an expo and continue if you do enough damage. If he was on 3 base and you are on 2 he can keep making roaches and break you assuming that you can't keep your sentry immortal and/or colossus count up. Very important to be macroing perfectly to hold off 3 base roach pressure in pvz. Also, don't make zealots vs roaches Try making pure stalker in all three matchups (follow up with colossus if you insist) you can get to plat+ with nothing but stalkers easy and it teaches you the importance of probes pylons and production while using your army.
Eh some good pointers, but others... it really depends on your style. Personally I see the stalker as a very cost inefficient unit until the blink upgrade is researched. I prefer to open ffe with a quick robo and heavy zealot + sentry composition. The idea is not to be aggressive, but to hold off any early game harass and allow for you to take a third while hitting a timing push with +2 and good immortal count.
My advice: Work with less gateways... you watch a replay and realize you are not constantly producing out of a gateway, then simply don't build it early on and use the resources elsewhere for the time being. If your 4 gate is not working in 80% of your games, then simply dont 4 gate, Try 3 gate and expand, or find a composition that you feel comfortable fighting zerg with, and work towards that composition.
Also: Poplock? .... are you refering to supply blocked? |
| | Dance.943 || "I think he's just going to lose. There's only so many ways you can lose. And he's going to make some kind of units. And I'm going to attack him, and then all his stuff is going to die. That's about the best prediction that I can make" - NonY |
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| Carbonthief United States. April 04 2012 13:35. Posts 288 | Profile # |
On April 04 2012 13:17 DanceSC wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 10:27 Jo3M3tal wrote:1. are your probes 100%? 2. are you never poplocked? 3. forge/robos always going 100%? If you satisfy all three then we can talk strategy. If your 4gate fails you basically lose, but you can try to make a robo an expo and continue if you do enough damage. If he was on 3 base and you are on 2 he can keep making roaches and break you assuming that you can't keep your sentry immortal and/or colossus count up. Very important to be macroing perfectly to hold off 3 base roach pressure in pvz. Also, don't make zealots vs roaches Try making pure stalker in all three matchups (follow up with colossus if you insist) you can get to plat+ with nothing but stalkers easy and it teaches you the importance of probes pylons and production while using your army.
Eh some good pointers, but others... it really depends on your style. Personally I see the stalker as a very cost inefficient unit until the blink upgrade is researched. I prefer to open ffe with a quick robo and heavy zealot + sentry composition. The idea is not to be aggressive, but to hold off any early game harass and allow for you to take a third while hitting a timing push with +2 and good immortal count. My advice: Work with less gateways... you watch a replay and realize you are not constantly producing out of a gateway, then simply don't build it early on and use the resources elsewhere for the time being. If your 4 gate is not working in 80% of your games, then simply dont 4 gate, Try 3 gate and expand, or find a composition that you feel comfortable fighting zerg with, and work towards that composition. Also: Poplock? .... are you refering to supply blocked?
Yes, it's short for population block. |
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| Carbonthief United States. April 04 2012 13:50. Posts 288 | Profile # |
Well quite honestly you could have won with that 4 gate. He was pretty bad. My honest opinion, is that you should concentrate on smoothing out that 4 gate. Everything was ok up until you were floating 600 minerals but only had 5 units. The supply block really got you there.
As a rule of thumb, when you are proxying your pylons for a 4 gate, you can make like, 3-4 pylons at once and it's completely normal and was completely standard in pvp. The extra pylons are you backups for if your first one gets found and taken out. This isn't bad macro, you'll still spend your money efficiently. You will still have enough minerals for all your warp ins, and won't have to worry about supply block during that first very micro intensive bust. You do have to watch out for it around 42 supply though and build another pylon ahead of time, but generally with a 4 gate the game will have been decided by then, and you'll likely lose some units too which will keep you from getting supply blocked a while longer.
High level pvp used to consist of 4 gate vs 4 gate, and the tactic was to build 2-3 pylons right under their ramp, since it's impossible to kill all of them in time for warp in, and then get high ground vision and warp right into their base. The way the build works, it just works out, and is completely fine to build that many pylons at once.
I am a firm believe that learning to smooth out a good 1 base build is the first step to getting out of the lower leagues. If you can do 1 base builds, you can move on to macro builds, but if you can't even do 1 base builds, it's jumping the gun to worry about all the other stuff.
Also I want to point out that even though it would have killed him because he was bad, if you are executing a 1 base build and arrive at a zergs base to find that they too are executing a 1 base build, get the fuck out. or forcefield contain them. But don't just charge in blindly, because a 1 base zerg is going to have alot of stuff, unless they're bad. Which you'll no doubt see happen, and will be able to kill them, and that's fine, just scout it out first before charging in.
edit: want to add just one more thing, don't dt rush after scouting a lair rush, and if you make dts don't use them defensively, they need to be harassing.Last edit: 2012-04-04 13:53:10 |
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| Rectifyy New Zealand. April 04 2012 21:25. Posts 19 | Profile # |
1) didnt chrono forge
2) didnt get anti air
3) didnt get charge for big battle
4) ***** Wait for more collosus?****
These are your reasons for as you said not winning (I'd link it back to not having a successful 4gate, but that's just me). The common factor in these is all mechanics. Best way if you see these as why you lost, go into your next games thinking "I'm gonna chrono that forge" or "I'm gonna play defensively and squeeze out 2 more colossus". I'd recommend holding off doing 4gate rushes - sure it's nice to win, but honestly there's not much follow up and it doesn't teach you anything by continually doing it. |
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