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| Azuroz Sweden. April 05 2012 00:14. Posts 1626 | Profile # |
| Does open bracket 1 put you into group A and bracket 2 into group B? or is that randomized? |
| | Team NSHoseo <3 |  |
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| Lorch Germany. April 05 2012 00:18. Posts 2204 | Profile # |
On April 04 2012 18:20 Corsica wrote:Dimaga vs Leenock should be good,a also now we have a tournament where we can say that noone had easy road to the finals 
Thats Nony vs Dimaga 
Insane lineup, especially if you add all the invited/seeded players. Should be a real treat to watch. This tourney is getting better by the day, first no TB, now insane open bracket lineup. Might have to rape my sleep schedule for this.
Also besides the fact that it sucks teamkills are actually not that bad from the teams perspective, it means that in the given situation you have a 100% change that someone from your team moves on to the next round, and the other dude can still make it through loosers bracket.Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:41:12 |
| | Terran kids think stutterstepping and medivacdrops are difficult skills, so everything that can't stutterstep is "A move race". Pretty funny |  |
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| stichtom Italy. April 05 2012 00:19. Posts 673 | Profile # | |
| | Favourite player: IM.MVP ~ Favorite league: IPL |  |
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| Cascade Australia. April 05 2012 00:26. Posts 2186 | Profile Blog # |
Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills.
Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless.
Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets. |
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| ninjamyst United States. April 05 2012 00:31. Posts 1546 | Profile # |
On April 04 2012 22:02 DamageControL wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
Sheth, Tyler, Jinro, and Haypro have to get to finals before a teamkill Hero and Ret meet in quarterfinals TLO, Taeja and Zenio are he worst, but they don't meet till quarter and semifinals. It honestly doesn't seem that terrible when you have 9 players in open. edit: I'd prefer less liquids hitting, I love liquid, but i don't think it's that terrible.
I think the worst part is that TL's best players are matched together in the same bracket while the rest are more spread out to the point that they may not even make it to the finals without getting slaughtered by Koreans. |
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| OMGKEI Australia. April 05 2012 00:32. Posts 576 | Profile # |
| The only player missing for me is Naniwa, still the most brutal open bracket ever though. Bringing GSTL finals is such a sick move, instantly gain 10+ koreans. Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:34:38 |
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| bouhko April 05 2012 00:32. Posts 193 | Profile # |
| That's a fucking stacked tournament. This looks like the GSL with more foreigners. Will be fun to watch ! |
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| KingwAyz United Kingdom. April 05 2012 00:33. Posts 16 | Profile # |
| So many koreans... foreigners have no chance :/ |
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| DifuntO Greece. April 05 2012 00:34. Posts 1189 | Profile # |
| Holy hell this is gonna be amazing! Can't wait. |
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| Femari United States. April 05 2012 00:37. Posts 2836 | Profile # |
IPL4 jumping over MLG for premier foreign tournament status
Stacked as fuck |
| | Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun |  |
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| mouzIllusion United States. April 05 2012 00:37. Posts 1027 | Profile Blog # | |
| | www.twitter.com/mouzIllusion & www.facebook.com/illusionsc2 |  |
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| bouhko April 05 2012 00:39. Posts 193 | Profile # |
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I kind of agree. I don't really think tournaments organisers should care about the player's teams.
And I think a no teamkill policy will open the doors to some abusive situation. Like how to you define a team ? Can a player be on two teams ? What if all the best players just create a team for the tournament simply to play against less skilled opponents in the open bracket ?
I kind of feel such a policy would lead to some dramas. Team A will start complaining that team B had less teamkills than them, etc..
Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:39:36 |
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| VirgilSC2 United States. April 05 2012 00:43. Posts 5743 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here.
Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got:
53 ridiculously lopsided matches.
11 conceivably close matches.
I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close"
The matches I chose:
+ Show Spoiler [Ridiculously Lopsided Matches] +
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
+ Show Spoiler [Conceivably Close Matches] +
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:48:08 |
| | Clarity Gaming General Manager | ClarityGaming.com | @VirgilSC2 |  |
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| Hunterai Thailand. April 05 2012 00:44. Posts 798 | Profile # |
My Prediction:
4 From Winner Brackets
Oz
viOLet
GhostKing
Jjakji
4 From Loser Brackets
Parting
TaeJa
SaSe
HerO
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| Shadow_Dog Canada. April 05 2012 00:48. Posts 405 | Profile # |
| The reason they hold this at casinos is because they want people to bet on the matches w/ $ IRL, right? Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:49:12 |
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| Purple Haze United Kingdom. April 05 2012 00:49. Posts 190 | Profile # |
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler +Ridiculously Lopsided Matches
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
Conceivably Close Matches
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
You must get pretty upset whenever you watch...any individual sport in the world. It's not exactly a new concept to save the closer matches for later in the tournament. I'd rather get the massacres out of the way early, and enjoy the upsets.
Are the losers brackets each linked directly to their respective winners bracket, so there's no mixing of players between brackets?
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| m0ck April 05 2012 00:50. Posts 3235 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler +Ridiculously Lopsided Matches
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
Conceivably Close Matches
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
The purpose of a double-bracket qualifier is to decide the best players. Seeding players going into those brackets lessens the impact of having a good versus a bad draw. Correcting for teams makes the qualifier less fair. Which player do you move? And to which bracket? Fairness should in my opinion go before teams. Team affiliation is relatively unimportant in a single player sport. No reason to artificially heighten their importance. Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:51:02 |
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| Cascade Australia. April 05 2012 00:52. Posts 2186 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler +Ridiculously Lopsided Matches
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
Conceivably Close Matches
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
Ok, almost all tournaments try to separate the good players though, ie match them with bad players. It is to avoid having Hero eliminate MVP in the round of 128, while some no-name advance to the finals by playing other no-names. But you are ofc allowed your opinion even if I don't agree with it. |
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| VirgilSC2 United States. April 05 2012 00:55. Posts 5743 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2012 00:50 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler +Ridiculously Lopsided Matches
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
Conceivably Close Matches
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
The purpose of a double-bracket qualifier is to decide the best players. Seeding players going into those brackets lessens the impact of having a good versus a bad draw. Correcting for teams makes the qualifier less fair. Which player do you move? And to which bracket? Fairness should in my opinion go before teams. Team affiliation is relatively unimportant in a single player sport. No reason to artificially heighten their importance.
So why not just seed everyone randomly? Wouldn't that be the "fairest" option available?
On April 05 2012 00:49 Purple Haze wrote:
You must get pretty upset whenever you watch...any individual sport in the world. It's not exactly a new concept to save the closer matches for later in the tournament. I'd rather get the massacres out of the way early, and enjoy the upsets.
Are the losers brackets each linked directly to their respective winners bracket, so there's no mixing of players between brackets?
In tournaments where they "save the closer matches for later", like say NCAA's March Madness Basketball tournament. (Not an individual sport, but frankly I don't watch many individual sports) The seeds in that tournament are based off previous performance in the league.....here the rankings seem* (as I'm not aware what metric was used) to be chosen based one one person, or a group of people's idea on who is good and who is bad.Last edit: 2012-04-05 00:58:40 |
| | Clarity Gaming General Manager | ClarityGaming.com | @VirgilSC2 | |
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| Cascade Australia. April 05 2012 00:58. Posts 2186 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2012 00:55 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 00:50 m0ck wrote:
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote:Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round?
What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation?
It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets.
I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler +Ridiculously Lopsided Matches
Leenock > Zephyr
Golden > Rowrin
DIMAGA > NasD
PartinG > Auderned
KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF
Virus > Mike
Moon > MafiaCheese
Oz > Kukaracha
DdoRo > Light
GanZi > IMBAoracle
Dragon > RxNinja
Classic > Stillborn
HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win)
HerO > DJTyrant
Ret > Wind
Sleep > Blink
JYP > BearJewSlava
qxc > Astral
Sound > Garthmeister
KawaiiRice > TenryuRH
viOLet > mMmSiezE
Annyeong > zOCHL
BlinG > twttrCeaser
Curious > Truman
TT1 > InsaneRabbi
July > Sruff
MVP > Rumcake
SeleCT > LookitsIan
SaSe > mockturtle
Squirtle > Demonlord
ToD > EROhime
GhostKing > CryMoar
ChAnCe > silvaWare
Creator > CypherX
AcE > twttrNvictus
State > Wailord
Heart > Exiledz
Drewbie > PanzerRH
Bboongbboong > Papabear
Axslav > wabachaw
Jjakji > Heathen
Sheth > RxSnoWy
Crank > Prplppleatr
HuK > GoldenMule
KiLLeR > OrbraY
ViBE > Epyon
TaeJa > Detour
Killer > Dalguno
TLO > Samuraipanda
Maru > FallenAngel
CatZ > Mettaur
Zenio > Duwie
Illusion > JPEG
Conceivably Close Matches
HasHe <> NoNy
Heavens <> Flo
Terious <> Scarlett
Caliber <> Mystik
Jinro <> Spades
DeMusliM <> MoOk
Machine <> Hawk
Binski <> SyNc
ThisIsJimmy <> STX
Panther <> Ryung
Perfect <> Future
The purpose of a double-bracket qualifier is to decide the best players. Seeding players going into those brackets lessens the impact of having a good versus a bad draw. Correcting for teams makes the qualifier less fair. Which player do you move? And to which bracket? Fairness should in my opinion go before teams. Team affiliation is relatively unimportant in a single player sport. No reason to artificially heighten their importance.
So why not just seed everyone randomly? Wouldn't that be the "fairest" option available?
I'm fine with people getting better seeds due to previous achievements (as is done here in IPL, and in most other tourneys), I am less fine with people getting better seeds depending on which teams they have signed a contract with.
edit: but yeah, it'd be interesting to know how they decided the seeds, and tourneys should be transparent with how the seeds are done.Last edit: 2012-04-05 01:00:35 |
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