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| Enki United States. April 06 2012 05:26. Posts 1988 | Profile Blog # |
Arizona is at it again it would seem. H.B.2036 is pretty bad news in general for women but reading into it is downright shocking. It would ban abortions (after 20 weeks and only for medical emergencys, and is actually 18 weeks technically) for some expectant mothers, but thats only the beginning. The bill claims that conception begins two weeks before any sexual intercourse occurs.
I don't see this shit ever passing in the Senate or even the House of Reps, but the fact that it already got to Arizonas House of Reps is pretty sad.
It passed the Arizona state Senate 20-10 and will now go before the states House. http://rt.com/usa/news/arizona-bill-conception-abortion-387/
+ Show Spoiler +A new bill up for vote in the state of Arizona would ban abortions for some expectant mothers, but that’s only the start of what lawmakers have in store. If the legislation passes, the state will consider a child to exist even before conception.
Under Arizona’s H.B. 2036, the state would recognize the start of the unborn child’s life to be the first day of its mother’s last menstrual period. The legislation is being proposed so that lawmakers can outlaw abortions on fetuses past the age of 20-weeks, but the verbiage its authors use to construct a time cycle for the baby would mean that the start of the child's life could very well occur up to two weeks before the mother and father even ponder procreating.
On page eight of the proposed amendment to H.B. 2036, lawmakers lay out the “gestational age” of the child to be “calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period of the pregnant woman,” and from there, outlaws abortion “if the probable gestational age of [the] unborn child has been determined to be at least twenty weeks.”
The architects of the amendment say that prohibiting abortion after 20 weeks — except in cases of medical emergency — is necessary for the safety of both mother and child. By designating a life to begin weeks before even possible, however, some critics are condemning Arizona lawmakers for looking for a way to involve itself in abortion matters before it can even become an issue.
“Certainly, they are trying move the gestational cutoff from what had been over the last two years a 20-week gestational cutoff to an 18-week gestational cutoff,” Guttmacher Institute’s State Issues Manager Elizabeth Nash tells Raw Story. “At the same time, they are trying to say, ‘Oh, this is a 20-week abortion ban.’ And they get away with that with the definition of gestational age that’s in the bill.”
“Considering that it’s anti-choice nuts we’re talking about, it’s safe to assume that they’d simply prefer a situation where all women of reproductive age are considered to be pregnant, on the grounds that they could be two weeks from now,” RH Reality Check’s Amanda Marcotte adds in a recently-penned editorial. “Better safe than sorry, especially if that mentality means you get to exert maximum control over the bodies of women of reproductive age.”
In extending her support for the legislation, however, sponsor Nancy Barto, a Republican senator representing the Phoenix, Arizona area says that fetuses are able to feel pain after the 20-week mark. Also favoring the proposal, Senator Steve Smith (R-Maricopa) adds that lawmakers also need to consider “the 50 million-plus children who have been killed” since the US Supreme Court legalized abortion in Roe v Wade.
"I would like to listen to the 50 million-plus children that have been aborted and killed since Roe v. Wade,'' the senator says."I would like to listen to what they think of this bill.''
Mother Jones adds in their own reporting, however, that while the law could be explained as an effort to deter complications that come from late-term abortions, opening up the window for the gestational age to begin before conception can hurt the parents in the long run. Essentially the act would outlaw abortion after 18 weeks, not 20 as the legislation claims, which could keep some concerned parents from making a decision about pregnancy before some medical procedures that gauge the health of the child are able to be determined. While some tests can be conducted soon after conception to catch potential life-threatening conditions and other impairments, outlawing abortions after the eighteenth week could keep parents from opting for abortion after other tests can be carried out (before the 20-week mark).
H.B. 2036 passed in the Arizona Senator by 20-to-10 and will soon go before the state’s House. To Raw Story, Elizabeth Nash says she believes the bill has a “very good chances of passage.”
Another article about it, from the Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/05/uteruses-how-do-they-work
+ Show Spoiler +It was those great American evangelical poets, the Insane Clown Posse, who asked us once to contemplate the following existential question: "Fucking magnets, how do they work?" But in 2012, after decades of eschewing comprehensive sex education, and lambasting everything from intrauterine devices and birth control pills to emergency contraception, perhaps it's time to admit that the most existential question of our time for religious conservatives to answer relates to women's mysterious reproductive tracts. So, erm, how do they work?
Sadly, religious instruction isn't much help: between telling women that an aspirin between the knees or a phonebook on a man's lap will prevent pregnancy, it's perhaps unsurprising that strict adherents to a religion in which a primary article of faith is that a woman was impregnated without the benefit of vaginal penetration or male ejaculate have a few problems fully articulating how modern women can get (or keep from getting) pregnant without a little confusion … or at least elision.
And so it is that we American women find ourselves being told by legislators in Arizona – those benighted do-gooders behind the anti-Latino "show us your papers" law and the anti-Obama "show us your circumcision" – that, in fact, pregnancy will no longer begin at conception. Instead, we're told, we'll soon be legally considered pregnant in the state of Arizona as of the date of our last period, which, as that silly godless "science" tells us, is usually about two weeks before we ovulate. It is true that some medical professionals use a pregnant woman's last period to estimate a gestational age in the absence of other data – like the actual date of conception which is, when one is not the Virgin Mary, actually not beyond a woman's capacity to know or recall or a doctor's capacity to determine. But a legal mandate forcing them to even when other diagnostic tools are more available or appropriate is simply a way to reduce their scientific and professional discretion for the purpose of limiting abortions in ways unimagined by the standards of Roe v Wade and in a manner that is not based on the way women's supposedly unknowable reproductive tracts work.
Of course, some religious conservatives believe that ovulation is a vast leftwing conspiracy anyway: despite the fact that birth control pills prevent ovulation by regulating the hormones that normally trigger it, some on the religious right have declared the pill an abortifacient, claiming that women taking the pill nonetheless ovulate, inadvertently fertilise their eggs and discard their precious offspring when the demon pill flushes the baby from their magical reproductive system. I mean, it's all so weird up in there, with those internal genitals from which life eventually springs forth, who can really be expected to understand it but God? (A god who, we should note again, allegedly impregnated a woman without any first-hand contact with those parts anyway.)
Ovulation debates aside, the Arizona law is really just an extension of the religious right's understanding of women as pre-pregnant vessels for the continuation of the species, regardless of our lives, health or actual desires. It isn't like the US ranks 39th in the world in maternal mortality, among the last in the developed world. It isn't like three in 10 women in the US will have an abortion in their lives. And it isn't like the majority of women who seek abortion were using birth control when they became pregnant, even though the religious right has fought for years to restrict women's access to – and information about – said methods of birth control.
And, goodness knows, it isn't as though the justifications for a law establishing the legal start of a pregnancy as weeks before conception in order to justify a ban on all abortions based on scientific criteria – gestational age and foetal pain – have any firm grounding in that godless science they so decry when women use methods of birth control they find unseemly. That would just be illogical.
A decent explanation of the "pregnant 2 weeks before conception" that it's talking about:
that, in fact, pregnancy will no longer begin at conception. Instead, we're told, we'll soon be legally considered pregnant in the state of Arizona as of the date of our last period, which, as that silly godless "science" tells us, is usually about two weeks before we ovulate. It is true that some medical professionals use a pregnant woman's last period to estimate a gestational age in the absence of other data – like the actual date of conception which is, when one is not the Virgin Mary, actually not beyond a woman's capacity to know or recall or a doctor's capacity to determine. But a legal mandate forcing them to even when other diagnostic tools are more available or appropriate is simply a way to reduce their scientific and professional discretion for the purpose of limiting abortions in ways unimagined by the standards of Roe v Wade and in a manner that is not based on the way women's supposedly unknowable reproductive tracts work.Last edit: 2012-04-06 05:34:51 |
| | "Practice, practice, practice. And when you're not practicing you should be practicing. It's the only way to get better. The only way." I run the Smix Fanclub! |
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| Drowsy United States. April 06 2012 05:29. Posts 4826 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm embarrassed to live in this state sometimes... Just feels like we have such bigger fish to fry. I honestly don't give a shit about abortion given the sorry state of AZ public education and it upsets me that politicians divert any of their attention to it. |
| | Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us. |
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| SnipedSoul Canada. April 06 2012 05:31. Posts 1691 | Profile # |
Wait, what?
If conception occurs two weeks before there are any sperm in the woman's body, what the hell do sperm do? |
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| DreamChaser April 06 2012 05:31. Posts 1632 | Profile Blog # |
| If Arizona just embraced Day Light Saving's maybe they wouldn't have this problem. But theres not much to say just disappointment really. |
| | Plays against every MU with nexus first. |
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| Kevin_Sorbo Canada. April 06 2012 05:34. Posts 422 | Profile # |
OMG.
Wtf is up in Arizona anyways^^ Is it about living in a cave and eating raw meat bludgeoned off an animal you just scared off a cliff^^
Seriously strange that such an advanced society can go backward/sideways in the wrong direction like that. Just the fact that all those stupid laws are brought up in the first place makes me wonder a lot...
Thats when I think too myself : Fuck man, winter aint so bad after all... :D |
| | GET TO THE CHOPPAAHHHH!!!! |
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| qotsager Germany. April 06 2012 05:34. Posts 50 | Profile # |
| man... and some are wondering why the US have got such a bad image. this is just silly. |
| | "Aehm Blissööhd" - DeMusliM |
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| JackDragon April 06 2012 05:37. Posts 393 | Profile # |
Haha, what did I just read? you are pregnant 2 weeks before you are impregnated? What idiot comes up with this shit? I can only hope that it never passes or I will lose all faith in human future... again.
Edit: "ait when I think about it doesn't "considered pregnant in the state of Arizona as of the date of our last period" mean that women are always pregnant from the time they get their first period? If so... then... My brain hurts.Last edit: 2012-04-06 05:40:14 |
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| Candadar April 06 2012 05:37. Posts 1791 | Profile Blog # |
God damnit Arizona.
This is what happens when only a few thousand people, and usually very old and stupid people vote for their Senators/House Members.
You know, the people that actually matter in our government. |
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| Daralii United States. April 06 2012 05:39. Posts 5663 | Profile # |
On April 06 2012 05:31 SnipedSoul wrote: Wait, what?
If conception occurs two weeks before there are any sperm in the woman's body, what the hell do sperm do?
Don't spend too long thinking about bills from Arizona. You'll only hurt yourself. |
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| TSM Great Britain. April 06 2012 05:40. Posts 582 | Profile Blog # |
| what the fuck? this is like the trolling bill, what is wrong is america? |
| | The person to smile when everything goes wrong has found someone to blame it on - arthur bloch **** tl:dr *user was banned for this post* |
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| OptimusYale Korea (South). April 06 2012 05:40. Posts 978 | Profile Blog # |
Wait wait wait...so if I'm reading this right, not only is abortion murder to them, but menstration is also murder. You don't actually get pregnant then your dead. Teenage pregnancies will be through the rough as every teenage girl whos on the rag is pregnant.....
Sometimes I do not understand how people who put this shit through are even related to the rest of humanity |
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| Kevin_Sorbo Canada. April 06 2012 05:42. Posts 422 | Profile # |
On April 06 2012 05:37 Candadar wrote: God damnit Arizona.
This is what happens when only a few thousand people, and usually very old and stupid people vote for their Senators/House Members.
You know, the people that actually matter in our government.
In this case it is pretty easy to screw up the election as proved by our great canadian conservative government.
Look at what those fuckers did last election:
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/robocalls-why-you-should-give-a-shit
robocalling other parties voters to send the to the wrong polling stations. lol. |
| | GET TO THE CHOPPAAHHHH!!!! |
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| Daralii United States. April 06 2012 05:42. Posts 5663 | Profile # |
On April 06 2012 05:40 TSM wrote: what the fuck? this is like the trolling bill, what is wrong is america?
Lots of old, stupid, white men in power and a lot of sane people have given up any semblance of faith in the democratic process. |
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| aksfjh United States. April 06 2012 05:43. Posts 3503 | Profile # |
On April 06 2012 05:40 TSM wrote: what the fuck? this is like the trolling bill, what is wrong is america?
Don't bunch everybody up with Arizona. There are plenty of sane state legislatures in the U.S. |
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| BlackJack United States. April 06 2012 05:44. Posts 6651 | Profile Blog # |
Dumb bill but also dumb sensationalist article... It's just Republicans trying to use a loophole so they can ban abortions after 18 weeks and call it a ban after 20 weeks.
Instead, we're told, we'll soon be legally considered pregnant in the state of Arizona as of the date of our last period
No. You'll be considered legally pregnant when you are pregnant. |
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| dAPhREAk Nauru. April 06 2012 05:45. Posts 8698 | Profile Blog # |
| arent they basically saying that as soon as the egg is created, life begins? interesting concept. |
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| Kerwin United States. April 06 2012 05:45. Posts 219 | Profile Blog # |
On April 06 2012 05:31 DreamChaser wrote: If Arizona just embraced Day Light Saving's maybe they wouldn't have this problem. But theres not much to say just disappointment really.
Actually, not doing Daylight Savings Time is one of the (if not the only) thing I'm proud of Arizona for. So basically in this bill, nothing changes except the 20 week ban on abortion gets moved to as early as 18 weeks. I can't say I know enough about pregnancy to consider the pros and cons of 20 week v 18 week but I'm pretty damn sure their justification for it seems weird. Arizona's legislator's keep churning out as many controversial laws as they can.
When I first heard the justification for it, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong; If a woman has no idea when she actually got pregnant, would the standard be to judge the fetus based on this previous menstrual cycle business? I could see how that could have some relevant applications in Arizona >.< |
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| Kerwin United States. April 06 2012 05:46. Posts 219 | Profile Blog # |
On April 06 2012 05:45 dAPhREAk wrote: arent they basically saying that as soon as the egg is created, life begins? interesting concept.
They are saying that for the purposes of a law, the 2 weeks before conception counts towards the age of the fetus... which is dumb unless a proper explanation can be given on why that should really be the case. |
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| Mindflow Korea (South). April 06 2012 05:49. Posts 308 | Profile # |
| Im ashamed to live in the United States, politics is getting ridic with all these religious extremists shoving their ideas down everyones throat. |
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