Introduction/Inspiration: I spend a lot of time playing / making team maps, and I've been wanting to try doing team maps for 6m. This is an experimental 2v2 map designed with 6m in mind. The aesthetics are also a bit experimental, obviously this takes an idea from Dual Sight. I've been experimenting a bit with weird color schemes and colored doodads. I have no idea if its balanced or not, I'm worried that the rush distances are a bit too long.
I like this map but I agree theres going to be a stalemate in the middle. It is just fine in size though. Bigger 2v2 maps with more bases that acutally allows you to macro instead of 1/2 basepush all the time is exactly what we need for 2v2..
How big is the ramp for the mains? Can a single forcefield block it off completely or would you require 2? Really hard to see for me TT maybe eye problem ;D
Could you pls put this up on EU so I can try it out?? I really like how it looks.
Jurg Jurg Jurg
See.Blue United States. April 07 2012 01:27. Posts 2295
The ramps at both mains are double ramps, and I think they should require 2 forcefields to block off. The middle might be a bit too tight, but that is easy to tweak
PM me if you want to host this on another server :D
@NegativeZero - I have thought about those exact things as well. The layout is a bit of a shot in the dark; I don't really know how the expansion layout would play out.I was hoping that players would expand with care on this map, but I also imagine the "naturals" would be the nearby highground double expo. The idea was that the long rush distance would allow players time to defend - plus if you expand south (top left spawn) your opponent has an even longer distance to go to get to your expos. Although like I said, its totally experimental.
The special technique of Shadowboxin'
TheFish7 United States. May 29 2012 08:15. Posts 1284
Hey, I remmember seeing this when it was made and saying to myself that it looks pretty bad but now as a normal map instead of 6m and after I have seen and read many more maps then that time, I think this looks really cool there seems to be a lot of options for harassment and creative play which might qualify this as a competetive 2v2 map .
From what I see, after a team has 5 bases they can easily take 2 more, which lets this map the option to get to real lategame 2v2, which is great but I think the problem here is that getting to 5 bases might be too hard.
While you can get the later bases easily enough, I think taking the 3rd, 4th and 5th bases might prove difficult since you need to spread out your forces in order to defend them, making 2-3 (or more) base pressure very strong (might be to strong) against a team that has 4+ bases.
In order to encourge macro games, at least one expansion should be easy to take and I think even the first 3 expansions should be easy to take. Now, in this map the 3rd base opens up two more paths that can be used against you, this is to punishing for just one expansion, so you might want to consider changing it.
What I suggest is to block the ramp on the far side of the middle high ground, therefore making taking the 4th and 5th bases so much more easily. While the 3rd base is still pretty open, I think the long walking path might be enough to allow macro play
All in all, even without adding rocks in order to make defending easier this looks like a decent map, of course much better then ladder maps, and I would love to try it or see VOD's of games played on it. Lastly, if you want me to publish it on the eu I would love to do it even through I am not that expirienced with map publishing
In the preview of the map (inside bnet), the tile-set looks very green-ish. why?
In some parts of the map, the snow really have the exact same colour as the pylon power circle. It's very hard to see even where the circle ends.
I know this is really hard to fix without neutral supplydepots, but down the main ramps there are multiple locations where you can wall in a probe with only two pylons and then make a cannon inside the pocket. As well as the possibility to wall in marines behind two bunkers. The only really good defense against this is the fact that the rush distance is so long (compared to blizzard maps).
In order to encourge macro games, at least one expansion should be easy to take and I think even the first 3 expansions should be easy to take. Now, in this map the 3rd base opens up two more paths that can be used against you, this is to punishing for just one expansion
I agree that in order to expand fast on this map you have to plan your strategy really well in order to secure it. Much will depend on what matchup it is. But actually the expand possibilities are really good, you have multiple choices and the distance to your enemy is really long (again, compared to blizzard maps). You also worry about the far side opening on the high ground double expansion. This should be no problem, considering the long distance on the outside from your closest natural, around via the watchtowers, to the far side ramp. You should just be able to place your army down your main ramp, and have a spotter (sensor tower/obs/ovie/worker or what ever) to see if they are running to that ramp, and then you are pretty close to go down and defend
thezanursic Slovenia. July 19 2012 21:46. Posts 2910
Thanks for uploading to the EU, Qwizzyx! If there are indeed nasty cannon/bunker rush spots I can fix that pretty easily if I know where they are. I don't think it should be too bad of an issue since its 2v2 and typically one teammate at least will have an army of some sort before expanding. I'm really not sure about the preview - i think I used Xil lighting, which is sort of on the white side in game.
I consider this map to be as macro oriented as possible without it being completely ridiculous. This map certainly rewards expanding, with the long rush distance and plentiful bases, but I purposely made it so that you can't really "turtle" up a few bases. In other words, you need to get units out to defend new expansions. My hope is that you would get long macro games but also give attackers a chance to do real damage against a blindly expanding opponent. did I pull this off? I dunno, because I haven't played many games on it to be honest. And yes, TTvTT might suck on it, but I haven't seen one played on it yet.
Okey, so now i have played a couple of games on it. And i must say, cannon rushing is not so good at the ramp after all. the rush distance is so long that even the new rocket-ovies can't really get there in time, and more important, potential lings to reenforce take forever to get there. And even if i manage to get some cannons up, it is far to the mineral line, unlike some shitty blizzard maps e.g. tyrador keep. The only rush that is worth the trouble would be proxy raxes with the other player also proxying (more raxes or gates) since it is possible to make marines stand in total range of the ramp behind a ling-tight wall of 2bunkers while they are constructing. But this requires total commitment and you also have to pull at least 3 SCVs really early, and that hurts your economy even harder.
Getting past that phase is actually really easy on this map. However, it becomes a little unstable again when it's time for the first expansion. A ZZ-team should not have so much trouble, but all the other combinations really have to plan this. This is one of the great features of Mokura, a team really have to think of how their expanding should be done, depending on what our team and the opposing team is doing. On this map you really have different options, the first natural is not an easy choice, and the 3 different possibilities are all very unique and have their pros and cons.
...I feel like the map will turn into spilt map down the middle everytime in pvz and TvT
This is actually not the case there is plenty of room for running around a tankline both with lings and blink, not to mention mutas. I have done some quite epic blink runs, turning it to more of a basetrade if the terran streches too far with a mech-force. but again, it depends on what your style is, and what you are facing. The middle ground are however too large to cover with tanks. Maby if you go hardcore mech and builds PFs across the board, and even that there is ways to deal with it. At the current state of the game we actually do not know what 2v2 lategame is on a map with enough expansions. It's a very unexplored area, and I personally would love to explore it, if only blizzard allowed it.
One thing is for sure, on Mokura you REALLY have to work like a team all the way to lategame. <3