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This is not the place to talk about LoL viewership.
This is also not a place to caster bash/balance whine/flame, etc.
Please don't argue about how many views LoL has, or which game is better, or we will be upset.
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Also, lay off Scarlett please. (added page 227) | jinorazi Korea (South). April 07 2012 19:55. Posts 3971 | Profile # |
what are the chances of foreigner making it to top 4?
whitera, idra, stephano remaining? |
| | age: 84 - location: california - sex: 잘함 |
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 HaXXspetten Sweden. April 07 2012 19:57. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
My predictions now that all the groups are clear would be something like this:
A - 1.NesTea 2.PartinG 3.GanZi 4.aLive 5.TAiLS
B - 1.MarineKing 2.Stephano 3.Curious 4.JYP 5.White-Ra
C - 1.Polt 2.MC 3.Squirtle 4.Creator 5.PuMa
D - 1.Jjakji 2.Byun 3.Bomber 4.MMA 5.IdrA
Groups C and D are ridiculous to try and predict though, but I'll go with that. Can't believe I'd place MMA that low, but it really is the Terran group of death, and I wasn't all that impressed by his play yesterday in comparison. |
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| Daray April 07 2012 19:57. Posts 2831 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:55 jinorazi wrote:
what are the chances of foreigner making it to top 4?
whitera, idra, stephano remaining?
Less than 10% |
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| Duravi United States. April 07 2012 19:58. Posts 1204 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now  .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
Then how do you explain GSL? Koreans don't even pay for it. Just because you don't like to watch the koreans doesn't mean most viewers agree with you. MLG didn't really start to take off until Columbus last year, when they brought the koreans in. |
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| HaXXspetten Sweden. April 07 2012 20:00. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 19:57 Daray wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:55 jinorazi wrote:
what are the chances of foreigner making it to top 4?
whitera, idra, stephano remaining?
Less than 10%
Idra, WhiteRa => 'bout 0,1%
Stephano => maybe 10%-ish |
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| mememolly April 07 2012 20:00. Posts 4215 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:55 jinorazi wrote:
what are the chances of foreigner making it to top 4?
whitera, idra, stephano remaining?
stephano has the only realistic shot |
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| maybenexttime Poland. April 07 2012 20:01. Posts 3082 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Once the casuals lose interest, viewer numbers will drop significantly, foreign SC2 will lose sponsors and will degrade into what WC3 used to be. The difference is that while WC3 had China carrying the scene and BW had Korea, SC2 doesn't have any such country. |
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| AnalThermometer Vatican City State. April 07 2012 20:04. Posts 333 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here.
A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
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| RageBot Israel. April 07 2012 20:06. Posts 1459 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:58 Duravi wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
Then how do you explain GSL? Koreans don't even pay for it. Just because you don't like to watch the koreans doesn't mean most viewers agree with you. MLG didn't really start to take off until Columbus last year, when they brought the koreans in.
Did you notice that the GSL has actually shrinked?
Yes, there are more games, and better players due to the way the GSL works, but because there's overall way more games, and a lot less money per year, there's actually like half the money "per game" as before.
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| zerglingrodeo United States. April 07 2012 20:06. Posts 896 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:55 -Strider- wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:53 Big J wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:42 zerglingrodeo wrote:
Am I right to think that Stephano is the only foreigner with a chance to win it still?
without doing the math exactly, I think that everyone can (theoretically) still make it out of the pool. F.e: Bomber beats Jjakji and GhostKing and is 4-0 Idra beats Jjakji and GhostKing and is 2-2 Jjakji beats MMA and GhostKing and is 2-2 GhostKing beats MMA and is 1-3 MMA is 1-3 Idra has beaten Jjakji and takes second place in the group - or it is decided by wins/losses (don't know the exact format), which is also possible (I believe).
Hmmm Idra wont beat jjakji and byun.
Probably true, but irrelevant because he said 'theoretically.' |
| | "This is how philosophers should salute one another: 'Take your time!'' - Wittgenstein |  |
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| mememolly April 07 2012 20:08. Posts 4215 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here. A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
but would you watch an IPL style tourney with a choice between watching destiny vs minigun or losira vs MMA?
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| RageBot Israel. April 07 2012 20:10. Posts 1459 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 20:08 mememolly wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here. A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
but would you watch an IPL style tourney with a choice between watching destiny vs minigun or losira vs MMA?
What about Thorzain vs Bling?
Or Naniwa vs Stephano?
Yeah, i'll watch these.
Someone said that MLG really took off with colombus, well, it wasn't just because there were Koreans, it was the first real big tournemant with any "top tier" Koreans in it, it had MC, MMA (rising star at the time), July and so on, now, it had some other thing besides the "common" Korean dominance, it had the most popular player in the foreign scene - Idra, actually taking games of Koreans, he beat MC 2-0 in the first game of the tournemant, he had his mistake against MMA and so on.
When you check out MLG viewer numbers, the most watched MLG is Orlando, which is the one in which foreigners - Idra and Huk, have performed best - Idra beat Boxer, Hongun and Bomber, Huk won, you can even check post numbers on TL, these were the two tournemants with the most posts about them.Last edit: 2012-04-07 20:17:03 |
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| Valikyr Sweden. April 07 2012 20:11. Posts 2222 | Profile # |
| Fell asleep when IdrA started to play but got to say that it seems like SaSe and HuK had sick runs through the open brackets. Too bad they fell one round short. Last edit: 2012-04-07 20:11:53 |
| | "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell- --- Team Property Member - Property-clan.com |  |
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| Olinim April 07 2012 20:13. Posts 3982 | Profile # |
| Gah wake up to see 2 protoss and no zerg in MC's group....gdamnit... |
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| AnalThermometer Vatican City State. April 07 2012 20:13. Posts 333 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 20:08 mememolly wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here. A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
but would you watch an IPL style tourney with a choice between watching destiny vs minigun or losira vs MMA?
I'd certainly watch Destiny vs Minigun, partly because I'd be hoping for some hilarious trash talk in chat or something and I think it'd be more fun. That's another thing, skilled games aren't always entertaining games, either. I'd probably only choose Losira vs MMA if I was struggling in the matchup and wanted some builds to try out. |
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| mememolly April 07 2012 20:13. Posts 4215 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 20:10 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 20:08 mememolly wrote:
On April 07 2012 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here. A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
but would you watch an IPL style tourney with a choice between watching destiny vs minigun or losira vs MMA?
What about Thorzain vs Bling? Or Naniwa vs Stephano? Yeah, i'll watch these.
he mentioned the state of streaming, citing both destiny and losira, what has thorzain et al got to with it? the question I was asking was would you watch (at their present skill level) destiny in a tourney over losira? |
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| Hall0wed United States. April 07 2012 20:13. Posts 7235 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 19:31 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:11 Hall0wed wrote:
On April 07 2012 18:31 Nifel wrote:
On April 07 2012 18:27 Hall0wed wrote:
On April 07 2012 18:21 Nifel wrote:
To be honest, the amount of Koreans in IPL4 is probably the highest of any foreign tournament ever, and they're all signed pros while many of the foreigners seem to be unsigned and relatively unknown (we still saw some breakthroughs here).
Of course the Korean scene got a broader talent pool, and overall better players, but I see no reason to lose hope in the foreign scene and think of it as less legit just because of this event.
..meanwhile in Norway and Denmark you've got the top of the EU scene (with some exceptions) duking it out. The foreign scene is spread really thin due to tons of great events being scheduled in the worst possible way.
o___________________________O (Literally made this face in real life by the way, hard to believe but it really did happen) Every foreigner at IPL4 is a big name besides Scarlett... the biggest names even. And I've seen a list of players at these EU events this weekend and I promise not a single one stood a chance at making it into Pool Play. You either have to be crazy or not watch a whole lot of Starcraft (specifically the GSL and Korean play in general) to think that the foreign scene is even CLOSE to the Korean scene at this point.
I'm not saying it's close, I'm saying there's no point in losing hope in it since it can still produce legit contenders. Perhaps I'm ignorant and clueless about the NA talent pool, if so please do enlighten me, but the first rounds of the open bracket in IPL4 contained a ton of names I've never heard of. Like these:  IGN ProLeague Season 4/Open Bracket*edit* What names are the biggest is really debatable, but Naniwa, Kas, Thorzain, Titan, Snute, Nerchio, Socke, Mana etc. are names as big as any foreign player at IPL4 (except for Stephano/HuK).
The only foreigner not at IPL that I see maybe making into Pools is Naniwa, but even that is a stretch. Thorzain could win a couple rounds but that is it (I do miss those days right after his stint with SlayerS though when he was on top of the foreign scene, and I don't even like the whole "foreign hope" concept). All I am getting at is the Pools would still look the same with or without the rest of those EU players, and if you don't make pools its almost like you didn't even attend this event sadly.
On April 07 2012 18:37 Giku wrote:
On April 07 2012 18:27 Hall0wed wrote:
On April 07 2012 18:21 Nifel wrote:
To be honest, the amount of Koreans in IPL4 is probably the highest of any foreign tournament ever, and they're all signed pros while many of the foreigners seem to be unsigned and relatively unknown (we still saw some breakthroughs here).
Of course the Korean scene got a broader talent pool, and overall better players, but I see no reason to lose hope in the foreign scene and think of it as less legit just because of this event.
..meanwhile in Norway and Denmark you've got the top of the EU scene (with some exceptions) duking it out. The foreign scene is spread really thin due to tons of great events being scheduled in the worst possible way.
o___________________________O (Literally made this face in real life by the way, hard to believe but it really did happen) Every foreigner at IPL4 is a big name besides Scarlett... the biggest names even. And I've seen a list of players at these EU events this weekend and I promise not a single one stood a chance at making it into Pool Play. You either have to be crazy or not watch a whole lot of Starcraft (specifically the GSL and Korean play in general) to think that the foreign scene is even CLOSE to the Korean scene at this point.
You're still missing a lot of foreigners who could have a chance on IPL Naniwa, Thorzain, maybe Grubby, Morrow and Happy could have taken a match vs some koreans
You should define "have a chance". "Have a chance" at winning a game or 2, sure why not, but as I said, Naniwa and Thorzain would have been the only foreigners missing that could have made a small run. I should say that for myself even though I knew Sase and HuK were going deep into the bracket, I never once thought that they "had a chance" to make it into pools. Even if a decent foreigner gets a good matchup vs. a Korean here there is always a much tougher Korean waiting on the other side. Sigh. I probably always make myself look like a huge Korean fanboy or something but I am just a fan of the best possible games and the whole foreign hope concept and people thinking players are better than they really are annoys me. I used to enjoy believing in it but all you get is disappointment from that line of thinking. >_< I mean it is fine if others want to keep up their hope but ah, whatever...
You are not a complete jerk after all. Best post I've read from you in a LONG while.
Ahha, thanks I think? I am not a mean person and am almost always a very happy person, but the one thing that makes me go off is ignorance. >_< So a lot of the time when I am posting in a thread like this or a thread dealing with some issue I usually am responding to a statement that I myself personally find ignorant, thus I know I come off as an asshole to some and I am ok with that. Though my posts several months ago on matters such as these stuck to the more trolly side, now I just try to stick with facts or just passive argument where I don't try to jam my opinion down your throat quite as strongly.
Anyway I think I have more to say and I could go on forever but I doubt anyone cares and I can't think well right now so I am better off watching even more Starcraft even though when I wake up in the afternoon today it will be more Starcraft till the Proleague Finals end... |
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opterown  Australia. April 07 2012 20:13. Posts 27566 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 20:10 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 20:08 mememolly wrote:
On April 07 2012 20:04 AnalThermometer wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:54 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:51 ETisME wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
No, what's bad is that when a scene is based only on "who is the best", there is no real emotional involvment, because, well, you don't actually care who wins, so what's going to happen is that pepole who can't get the dopamine rush of having their favorite win will just drop off, they also happen to be a very large majority of the viewers (check out MLG's votes on "who's the favorite" between HuK and Heart, Huk got 93% of the votes without being a favorite in any way). Less casual viewers - smaller tournemants, smaller prize pools, no more IPLs, no more MLGs and so on, less Koreans going abroad, and that won't fix the problem because by then... The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
lol why is that bad? Just because causal players cannot appreciate the much higher gaming standard from the korean players, it doesn't make the scene bad. What they want is show matches, not a real competitive tournament where koreans are just better
Because the scene will die, duh, it isn't like BW where there's ton of korean viewers, without foreigners watching the current SC2 scene is unsustainable.
I agree, but many people don't seem to listen to this view for whatever reason. There's a huge cognitive dissonance here. A sort of uncomfortable truth is that skill is not really a talent in demand for a game like Starcraft, personality is. There are thousands of Koreans on ladder lining up who have the skills, but there are not many who have both the skill and the personality. I can see LosirA streaming with 1000 or so viewers and Destiny with 6000, and it's pretty obvious who is truly more in demand in the scene and who people really care about - and it's not skilled players. But nobody will admit it.
but would you watch an IPL style tourney with a choice between watching destiny vs minigun or losira vs MMA?
What about Thorzain vs Bling? Or Naniwa vs Stephano? Yeah, i'll watch these.
just schedule a tournament on the day of some really important GSL matches or something, and the korean attendance will drop hahaha
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| TeeTS Germany. April 07 2012 20:14. Posts 1729 | Profile # |
On April 07 2012 19:46 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 19:35 Duravi wrote:
On April 07 2012 19:22 Logros wrote:Pretty sad that the big foreigner tournaments are basically all Korean now .
Yeah, it's really sad that the players with the most dedication and skill are winning the big prize money. Oh wait.
The current "good foreigners" will do the intelligent thing and drop the game, and go to school, they are all pretty intelligent people, who could make a lot more money by having a "real" job, like a physician or so, I find it incredible when people tell foreigners to train more, why should they? so that they can, maybe, win an extra 5,000 a year? The best thing to do for the foreign players themselves is to quit playing the game as a profession, andgo towards a more stable, better paying job, while maybe keep on playing as a hobby.
Well there is a difference between money makers and sportsmen. But ignorant idiots like you won't get it!
Naniwa is a good excample of a dedicated sportsman. And those are the people we want to cheer for, doing their best to reach the top. Most of the korean pros also do it more for sportsmanship than to make money. They want to challenge themselves and reach the top. The money is a nice fact and comes with the audience and sponsorship. But the heart of the sport, the competition has to be alive.
User was warned for this postLast edit: 2012-04-07 20:16:49 |
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| bikefrog Norway. April 07 2012 20:14. Posts 435 | Profile # |
So the top two in each pool goes into championship winners bracket and the #3's goes to championship losers bracket?
Really need Stephano to take this.
Edit: nvm, I got it now.Last edit: 2012-04-07 20:17:12 |
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