| MindBreaker United States. April 11 2012 23:24. Posts 345 | Profile Blog # |
| Hey I started playing ranked recently and got placed at 1000 (I know terrible) and I've been noticing that people, on either team, except for me can't last hit for beans. At 15 min I'm at 100-110 always. I'm assuming this is a elo related problem so at what elo can I expect people to actually be good at cs? |
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| Two_DoWn United States. April 11 2012 23:35. Posts 7270 | Profile Blog # |
Never?
Even in games at 1800+ you get people who STILL cant cs for shit. Part is due to skill, and part is due to the fact that most of the time someone is winning a lane and someone is losing one so you are gonna have someone with a pretty low cs.
That being said, around 15-1600 the majority of people, when unobstructed, will hit the 100 cs by 14-15 minutes. The problem gets to be that most of the time it ISNT unobstructed. |
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| AUGcodon Canada. April 11 2012 23:39. Posts 262 | Profile # |
| Huh, that is acutally very good for your elo. The usual CS people should aim for is around 140-160cs by the 20 min mark. I am around the mid 1300s right now and usually I only see 1-2 people outta both teams that can hit that mark by the 20th minutes. I can only CS "okay" at bot if Im graves. I mostly just jangle and support though. |
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| MindBreaker United States. April 11 2012 23:40. Posts 345 | Profile Blog # |
| That really sucks lol right now I can get zoned and still out cs everyone it's really annoying |
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| Dandel Ion Austria. April 11 2012 23:42. Posts 5843 | Profile # |
On April 11 2012 23:40 MindBreaker wrote:
That really sucks lol right now I can get zoned and still out cs everyone it's really annoying
It just means that you have to carry, and you alone.
Such are the ways of low elo. |
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| MindBreaker United States. April 11 2012 23:43. Posts 345 | Profile Blog # |
On April 11 2012 23:39 AUGcodon wrote:
Huh, that is acutally very good for your elo. The usual CS people should aim for is around 140-160cs by the 20 min mark. I am around the mid 1300s right now and usually I only see 1-2 people outta both teams that can hit that mark by the 20th minutes. I can only CS "okay" at bot if Im graves. I mostly just jangle and support though.
Well I usually only harass if it's gurranteed damage and I focus on cs big time as I find it better than kills. I usually go ez bot riven top or gragas mid. (lol I get like every minion with gragas beer explosion ftw) |
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| WaveofShadow Canada. April 11 2012 23:45. Posts 5284 | Profile Blog # |
The way I see it, the hardest part isn't really csing, it's learning to cs effectively while harassing/taking harassment at the same time. (There's also helping other lanes/jungle during invades or avoiding ganks and such but that's not pure laning.)
I personally find it very difficult to keep up at a decent level of cs while either 'going for a kill' in lane or avoiding getting killed. For me it seems to be a binary "well am I going to try and kill my lane opponent, or farm up all day?" Just one of those personal faults I have to work on. |
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| Tumor Austria. April 12 2012 00:01. Posts 190 | Profile # |
i am a realy noobig one got 30 one week ago, but i try to focus on last hits everytime.
yesterday i played ezreal bot and got lower CS but killed with my blitz support at a good amout of 14-1-5
so i focused on killing that kogmaw and i carryed the whole game with the kills.
i think it depends when u get good easy kills or CS both is importand and let you win games.
i try to deny trading 1-1 and it works well to not get kills for not dying  |
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| Alaric France. April 12 2012 00:10. Posts 8767 | Profile # |
| Normally, the better you'll grow, the better your opponents will be, and the less mistakes they'll do, so you won't be able to rely on easy kills for money, which is why you should concentrate on last hitting well. |
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| necrosed Brazil. April 12 2012 00:25. Posts 430 | Profile # |
| Its funny because at some point in the learning curve of laning you learn to skip some CS to harass your opponent, then you capitalize later when he is at lower life and you can zone him. |
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| NonFactor Sweden. April 12 2012 00:33. Posts 665 | Profile Blog # |
On April 12 2012 00:01 Tumor wrote:i am a realy noobig one got 30 one week ago, but i try to focus on last hits everytime. yesterday i played ezreal bot and got lower CS but killed with my blitz support at a good amout of 14-1-5 so i focused on killing that kogmaw and i carryed the whole game with the kills. i think it depends when u get good easy kills or CS both is importand and let you win games. i try to deny trading 1-1 and it works well to not get kills for not dying
Difference is, good players can get both kills AND the farm.
Actually, getting kills in your lane should only be seen as a reason to have even more farm than usual.
Farm is also lane dependent. Midlaners for example tend to have slightly less farm than top / ad carry since they tend to roam more.
Oh and the champion / matchup also makes a difference. |
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| daemir Finland. April 12 2012 00:53. Posts 3786 | Profile # |
| As well as what's happening on the map. If it's a very active game in skirmishes, everyone ends up low farm. There's big differences in tournament level play in farms between games as well. Some games get more afk farmish, some games are so action packed that no one has farm. |
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| wussleeQ United States. April 12 2012 01:15. Posts 1630 | Profile Blog # |
On April 11 2012 23:35 Two_DoWn wrote:
Never?
Even in games at 1800+ you get people who STILL cant cs for shit. Part is due to skill, and part is due to the fact that most of the time someone is winning a lane and someone is losing one so you are gonna have someone with a pretty low cs.
That being said, around 15-1600 the majority of people, when unobstructed, will hit the 100 cs by 14-15 minutes. The problem gets to be that most of the time it ISNT unobstructed.
he's right about people in higher ratings not being able to cs T_T i'm 1700 play mostly ad carry and can't cs for the life of meeee |
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| Strykemard April 12 2012 10:47. Posts 101 | Profile # |
| If you are at that elo with a high cs it means you are fallign off on some other aspects of the game. Try to figure out where you are goign wrong. My cs is always high for my elo. I consistently have highest cs most games but thats not everything. |
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| Craton United States. April 12 2012 10:52. Posts 10182 | Profile Blog # |
Three things to work on in lane:
1.) Farming
2.) Harassing
3.) Watching the map / "Game sense"
100 by 15 isn't great but it's not bad. You'll see that amount even in the 1800s, although AD lanes tend to have higher.
More than likely, your issue comes elsewhere. Getting farmed up is pretty useless if you're doing it at the expense of your team losing fights and objectives. You have to react to what's going on in the game. If you just stay and passively farm your lane while the enemy goes and ganks something, your team ends up behind. |
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| sob3k United States. April 15 2012 09:13. Posts 4674 | Profile Blog # |
Watch out for trying to CS too much at 1000 ELO, if you want to carry at this ELO you need to farm champs, not creeps. Your team will 4v5 themselvs to death if you try to stay in lane and just get a really nice CS. I would actually venture to say you are CSing far too much for the ELO. Roam around more and take advantage of all the openings bad players give you to get kills and help your team (because they are going to be roaming).
There was a post from a 2100 player on Reddit yesterday to this effect.
As you move up in ELO you can allocate more time to CS and less time to helping in crazy skirmishes and ganking other lanes, as there wont be as many easy openings and your team will know better when not to engage in terrible fights. |
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| wintergt Belgium. April 15 2012 09:52. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
On April 15 2012 09:13 sob3k wrote:
Watch out for trying to CS too much
Yeah I have fallen victim to this aswell. There is a huge wave top and I just can't resist going to farm it. Meanwhile my team goes on and starts a 4v5 fight and they all get killed, game over.
I noticed often it's not the whole team that is at fault, it is usually one guy that either has a propensity to charge ahead and go engage enemies (the "rambo"), or just play carelessly and get caught, which forces the rest of the team along into a game-losing fight. It is rather easy to spot such a rambo on your team though, and in that case you just have to forego CS and farm, and stick with the team because they WILL fight, whether you are there or not.
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| little fancy Germany. April 15 2012 10:29. Posts 1002 | Profile # |
On April 11 2012 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
The way I see it, the hardest part isn't really csing, it's learning to cs effectively while harassing/taking harassment at the same time. (There's also helping other lanes/jungle during invades or avoiding ganks and such but that's not pure laning.)
Exactly.
You're not really "winning" the lane if you are 10-20 CS ahead of your opponent by 15-20 minutes, especially when you play an early game oriented champion.
It really matters once you achieve an advantage of 40+ CS by that time which you will only get by farming accurately while simultaneously zoning or maybe even killing the enemy. Several damage trades in your favour that prevent the enemy from farming or making them base are key.
For example, giving up 2 CS to harass the enemy for 200+ dmg which in the end will make them miss 10 CS is going to win you the lane.
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| clickrush Switzerland. April 15 2012 11:14. Posts 1714 | Profile Blog # |
I played alot in that elo range when I started to play lol. the following advices are the most accurate IMO:
On April 12 2012 10:52 Craton wrote:
Three things to work on in lane:
1.) Farming
2.) Harassing
3.) Watching the map / "Game sense"
100 by 15 isn't great but it's not bad. You'll see that amount even in the 1800s, although AD lanes tend to have higher.
More than likely, your issue comes elsewhere. Getting farmed up is pretty useless if you're doing it at the expense of your team losing fights and objectives. You have to react to what's going on in the game. If you just stay and passively farm your lane while the enemy goes and ganks something, your team ends up behind.
at 1k elo you just need to strech the word "objectives" a bit. those random engagements that occur count as teamobjectives as well. learn how to spot them and be there at the right time. dont do what you think "should" be done. they a) will not listen, b) your probably mistaken in theory and c) you are actually mistaken by not doing what is best for your team right now.
On April 15 2012 09:13 sob3k wrote:
Watch out for trying to CS too much at 1000 ELO, if you want to carry at this ELO you need to farm champs, not creeps. Your team will 4v5 themselvs to death if you try to stay in lane and just get a really nice CS. I would actually venture to say you are CSing far too much for the ELO. Roam around more and take advantage of all the openings bad players give you to get kills and help your team (because they are going to be roaming).
There was a post from a 2100 player on Reddit yesterday to this effect.
As you move up in ELO you can allocate more time to CS and less time to helping in crazy skirmishes and ganking other lanes, as there wont be as many easy openings and your team will know better when not to engage in terrible fights.
this is correct. ganking is absolutely key on that elo. well you also have to kill your own lane whenever possible. if you enjoy csing and farming then play teemo/mundo/singed/nida or some other asshole champion that you can overextend with and still kill everyone while doing so.
another tipp from my side: whenever you are in the position where you think you need help from your teammates then you're doing it wrong in 70% of the cases. there should be allways some possiblity to kill someone and not to feed.
In the rare circumstance where you actually have to outcs your opponents because your losing trades or having a 2on1 lane or sth, then take your time. But the end goal should be you killing alot of champions. With alot I mean 10-20 + similar assists.
gl hf |
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| ZERG_RUSSIAN April 15 2012 11:19. Posts 5122 | Profile Blog # |
On April 12 2012 00:33 NonFactor wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 00:01 Tumor wrote:i am a realy noobig one got 30 one week ago, but i try to focus on last hits everytime. yesterday i played ezreal bot and got lower CS but killed with my blitz support at a good amout of 14-1-5 so i focused on killing that kogmaw and i carryed the whole game with the kills. i think it depends when u get good easy kills or CS both is importand and let you win games. i try to deny trading 1-1 and it works well to not get kills for not dying
Difference is, good players can get both kills AND the farm. Actually, getting kills in your lane should only be seen as a reason to have even more farm than usual. Farm is also lane dependent. Midlaners for example tend to have slightly less farm than top / ad carry since they tend to roam more. Oh and the champion / matchup also makes a difference.
This was the biggest improvement to my game. Kyuubicake told me that she was watching me play my lane and she said that I was missing creeps as I was zoning and that if I wanted to really be good at the game I had to do both perfectly at the same time. Mechanics practice is everything. |
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