Developers Update : Heart of the Swarm - Page 70

On April 14 2012 05:52 Blacklizard wrote:
Actually mass recall was definitely 75 energy when they showed it, and I could see it nerfed to 100 energy... so 1 recall per nexus. And they definitely will have to drop the "mass" part of it. I mean, obviously if it was as good as a mothership's recall it would be way too good.

The one place I'm worried about is what kcdc was talking about early game. It could be weird early game... it could force build time changes on the pool or roach warren, which then makes 6 pools and 7RR that much stronger. So all of that is worrying.

But it can all be fixed by requiring a gas upgrade on the nexus if nothing else.

On April 14 2012 05:29 Berailfor wrote:


Okay I'm replying to you and blinkingangels

@you Against Zerg they always know where your army is via having constant control of the Xel nagas unless the Protoss is pushing out and they can position adequately. Against Terran if you do a counterattack like that there's no way you'll get into their main (pushing past their wall) before they close in on you. And the Protoss can't recall his whole army unless he has like 3 bases with that much energy. And if that's the case then he probably is doing pretty badly not chronoing robos, upgrades, etc. And so as a result you'll naturally be up on him anyway. Point is. It's not gonna happen unless the Terran or Zerg seriously screws up.

@blinkingangel it doesn't work like that. You 1. Make it sound like we have infinite recalls and we dont use any CB on other things. And 2. It isn't catching the opponent off guard when you have proper positioning against the toss. 3. You can capitalize on the fact that i just did a retreat to take another base, do other things that require your APM. And finally 4. Your forgetting that if I use 3 recalls to get my whole army out of a tight spot. Well I better hope I was on your side of the map. Otherwise 1/3rd of my army is at each base and you can easily capitalize that and snipe a base because you 100% KNOW I'm spread out. Also. If I want to CB AND maintain recalls I'm going to have to individually use CB once on each nexus as normally it will deplete 1 nexus before using another nexii's energy.

On April 14 2012 05:56 deviator wrote:
The Shredder should be similar to Point Defense Drone and also come from the Raven.

On April 14 2012 06:01 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:

You want a unit to have two abilities that do the same thing? This makes sense how? The shredder was an ok idea but they should have given it to protoss and not allowed it kill workers.

On April 14 2012 05:44 tdt wrote:


Blink stalkers can get anywhere they want. Cooldown is the only thing preventing them from getting out of anywhere they want, nexus TP changes that. The main problem is how early it comes with both other races. When armys are small and larva is low this TP will be devestating and abused. Mothership recall is not much of an issue because of not only cost but larva is staked up, barraks are rolling 14 at a time. Armies are prepared. Speed and stim is available making any damage done by a stalker hit squad minimal and not worth MS recall. TP recall is entirely different

On April 14 2012 05:46 blinkingangels wrote:


1. No I don't, it's 2 mass recalls per nexus. In a late game scenario where toss has 4 bases, that's 8 mass recalls and 8 CBs at full energy. By the time you use 3 recalls, and then want to use it again, the energy will basically be replenished again. Toss will have plenty of energy for mass recall and chronoboost.

2. Yes it is, depending on the situation. If you catch toss in a choke etc. Not like it's important how you define it anyways.

3. Not even sure what your point is. Terran can take a base before an engagement and macro as well. Toss having just recalled doesn't change that.

4. Once again, 2 recalls per base. That's 2 at your main, at your natural. On most maps toss will easily be able to recall in a way where they can defend their 4th. Think of a map like daybreak for example, where the 4th is a 10 second walk from the natural. It is dependent on previous positioning and expansions, but toss can expand in a way that is favorable for mass recall. I also don't see how that last point matters. Its hardly any extra micro. Push 5, click nexus, CB, repeat.

Overall, this mechanic is way too forgiving for protoss. It adds nothing to the game in terms of skill. If people complained about supply drop being too forgiving, they should throw a fit about this. It allows protoss not to care about being maxed and defending drops on their production, they don't have to worry about bad positioning or unfavorable engagements, and they can defend expos even better. Its really just a badly designed mechanic overall.

On April 14 2012 05:20 kcdc wrote:


Eh, I hope Blizz thinks like you do, because if they do, I'm gonna have some beta fun abusing the crap out of TP until they fix it. Because trust me on this, they will.

I'm not sure what level you play at, but you're WAY overestimating the value of 4 chronoboosts. 4 chronoboosts is 40 seconds of bonus production on 1 building over 80 seconds. 4 chronoboosts allow you to convert 100 early minerals into 2 extra probes.

With TP, you could instead spend that 100 energy on forcing 8 extra lings (12 total) and killing 6 of them. So you're delaying 2 probes to delay 6 drones and kill 150 minerals. And then you attack again to snowball the effect.

And on top of that, you have an extra 100 early minerals to work with because you didn't build those 2 probes.

This is a no-brainer. It's a million times stronger than chronoboost. You might not be aware that P's most common FFE build floats about 75 early energy anyway.

On April 14 2012 05:50 Berailfor wrote:


Nexii have 100 energy, recall costs 75. Do the math.

And talking about your rebuttal #3, my point is that you can capitalize on the fact that you know I'm now at my base.

On April 14 2012 05:42 Berailfor wrote:


Each early probe is a lot of extra money. And no it's roughly 3 probes per 4 chronoboost. Also they would not need to make lings. Since your talking about a gate expand he can easily make 1 spine and the queen. Plus his initial lings to defend or make 2 roaches and kite.

And as far as FFE goes. I have NO CLUE what FFE you do that banks 75 energy. Let's go through the list.

+1 zealot - after initial probe CB's you spend all of it on +1 and WG

Stargate - obviously your stargate units, CBing probes is huge here, still a delayed attack upgrade that is probably chronoboosted

4gate robo expand - initial probes, robo, WG tech.

+2 blink stalker - initial probes, more probes (really needed to get the solid economy at a correct time) +1 and +2. Possibly blink but not needed with correct timing.

Whatever FFE your doing that is "common" and floats 75 energy is beyond me. That just seems like your neglecting CBing properly.

On April 14 2012 05:50 Berailfor wrote:


Nexii have 100 energy, recall costs 75. Do the math.

And talking about your rebuttal #3, my point is that you can capitalize on the fact that you know I'm now at my base.

On April 14 2012 06:16 blinkingangels wrote:



Too used to seeing 200 for OC energy. The point still holds - 4 mass recalls, 4 CBs. And like I said, the energy will have plenty of time to recharge.

Also, we can't forget how great this would be for offensive use. Protoss will have free reign over terran expansions. They go to attack an expo, terran goes to defend, and they just warp away. If terran goes to attack their expo, they can still leave. If terran goes for a base trade, guess what, they just warp back home.

AND terran has been begging for mech viability in TvP. Guess what this ability practically shuts down in many ways? Mech. Have fun trying to defend expos when you have an army as immobile as mech. By the time you get to your expo to defend toss will be long gone and so will your expansion. And the best part is they could recall to the other side of the map to attack your expos there, depending on the map. Toss will be able to proxy nexus late game just like terran masses OCs late game. This ability alone could completely shut down mech viablity late game.