Developers Update : Heart of the Swarm - Page 90

i also don't like the three macro mechanic, they speed up too much the game

Last edit: 2012-04-20 21:07:57

Velr Switzerland. April 20 2012 21:19. Posts 5106

On April 20 2012 20:46 Destroyr wrote:

The roach is a stupid unit... it has such low costs... and is so massable for a fact if you go vs toss on two base and you are on three and he hasnt killed you before 10-11 minutes... how will he win when your 200/200 roach army apprears...

On the other hand zvz is so much fun. So fast games and you can micro vs your opponent... but if i play a muta centric style and he goes 3rd base... and just a moves roaches... its pretty sad that your opponent doesnt have to invest any micro (except hitting some fungals or dropping some infested Ts) to kill you when you are apming the shit out of the game... its really just sad.

Roach is a stupid unit.

I think back in Beta Blizzard was to afraid to REALLY tweak the Roach and instead wasted to much time fiddling with it's supply/armor... Which made it bad until they gave it more range.. Which made it as friggin strong as it is now.

They should have tweaked it's HP, Damage and Size and leave it at 1 supply... Oh.. Let's put in SC/BW Hydras.. That would have been better anyway...

KULA_u Switzerland. April 20 2012 21:45. Posts 107

On April 20 2012 21:19 Velr wrote:

I think back in Beta Blizzard was to afraid to REALLY tweak the Roach and instead wasted to much time fiddling with it's supply/armor... Which made it bad until they gave it more range.. Which made it as friggin strong as it is now.

They should have tweaked it's HP, Damage and Size and leave it at 1 supply... Oh.. Let's put in SC/BW Hydras.. That would have been better anyway...

indeed. just like with the marauder, it was so terribly obvious that the roach was badly designed since the beginning of the beta.

the roach should have been made closed to it's basic design idea: a unit that has a high regeneration rate.

If this were the focus of the unit it would have been a much more interesting unit along the line of 50-75minerals, 25gas, 50-70HP, regen of ~2 HP/s (no bonus regen when burrowed), 1 supply, 0 armor, no armor type except biological, smaller size, burrow tier 1 tech, very slow tunneling possible as soon as burrow is researched, tunneling speed upgrade tier 2 tech (possibly also increasing normal movement speed), and maybe some kind of tier 3 upgrade like increased regeneration, resistance to spells (e.g. spells only do half of their effect) or something like that. I don't know what weapon it should have, as it shouldn't be to cloase to the sc/bw hydra, but I think a range of 2-3 with lower damage per shot or even melee with some damage over time would have been interesting. (something in that line of course, not exactly like this)

but instead they made a cheap and boring unit that takes the tank role away from the ultralisk and completetly changed zerg design, by relegating the hydra to a slowmoving glass cannon and the ultra to an antio armored AoE finisher.

Last edit: 2012-04-20 21:46:28

Jermstuddog United States. April 20 2012 23:57. Posts 2054

On April 20 2012 21:45 KULA_u wrote:

your design is all the reasons why they scrapped it.

2hp/s doesn't matter when 40 stalkers are shooting you.

As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro

Gfire United States. April 21 2012 00:01. Posts 1479

I hope they aren't too stubborn to make drastic changes to existing units like roaches even if they are not problematic in the current version. I could see them saying that unnecessary changes will just confuse the players too much. That was what they said when they refused to use the newer version of Korhal Compound in ladder, because it's winrates were balanced.

Truth is, they will be patching HotS and WoL separately so we're going to end up with different stats on some of the same units anyway. I think a drastic, obvious change from the beginning is far less confusing than that.

ESV Mapmaking Team -- @TheGfire

Haustka United States. April 21 2012 00:02. Posts 219

blizzard, can u make the game so that when its equal economy and equal 200 units vs 200 units(same value and same ratio of units composition), can you make it a positional war?

So Protoss cant just A move into Zerg's or Terran's 200 units with mothership and gg

sorry Protoss, but our current meta game is like that at the moment.

Power of Human Will

DooMDash United States. April 21 2012 00:19. Posts 841

Still can't believe the colossus is in and the reaver is out.

S1 3500+ Master T. S2 1600+ Master T.

Grumbels Netherlands. April 21 2012 00:21. Posts 3417

Just a thought, but it's pretty dangerous for Blizzard to replace units, because people will forever compare the two units to each other and if one doesn't measure up it will be seen as an absolute failure, even more so than if it was just a newly introduced unit.

That's why I don't think it's good PR for Dustin Browder to publicly state a unit like the Oracle is a replacement for the Mothership. The connection isn't too obvious between those two, so why draw attention to it? (unlike say Thor versus Warhound, where it's obvious)

suffer by myself in a pool of blissful misery

Plansix United States. April 21 2012 00:46. Posts 5375

On April 21 2012 00:02 Haustka wrote:
blizzard, can u make the game so that when its equal economy and equal 200 units vs 200 units(same value and same ratio of units composition), can you make it a positional war?

So Protoss cant just A move into Zerg's or Terran's 200 units with mothership and gg

sorry Protoss, but our current meta game is like that at the moment.

They removed the mothership before you even asked. Problems solved.

Nony on PvT: "It's not imbalanced, the protoss wins and then there is a five minute death animation for the Terran"

Resistentialism Canada. April 21 2012 02:35. Posts 684

Zerg hits 200 food 11 minutes into the game and has an economy advantage almost from 00:00. They also get to their 'ideal composition' far earlier. For what you want they basically need to have three of the exact same race.

zTz United States. April 21 2012 05:26. Posts 473

what?

@jdklaw

Trok67 France. April 21 2012 05:38. Posts 382

units I would like the "gameplay" to be modified :

-banelings : they combine both AOE damage + bonus against light which makes them DEADLY against 2 units (marine and zerglings) and completely useless against any other unit in the game. I kinda feel that such a "niche" unit is not really good, it is really too good against zerglings and marine and too bad against other units

- corruptor : very meh units, not really fun to play, doesn't have any fun ability or gameplay mechanic + his bonus against massive units make carrier and battlecruisers completely worthless because they are so easily countered

-broodlord : the broodlings mechanic is just so annoying to play against, you just can't kill well microed and supported broodlords with ground units (your unit will just mess up with the broodlings) even if those units are supposed to be good against air units

- carrier/battlecruiser : didn't find their role in the game

snakeeyez United States. April 21 2012 05:41. Posts 754

On April 19 2012 23:53 bhfberserk wrote:
I hope blizz really over haul the entire SC2. From DPS, strats, everything. so that there is more micro play. instead of deathball strategy.

Pretty obvious from what they have done so far that this is not going to happen. Add some new units with cool stuff and see how it plays out then tweak minor stats from there.
I think brood war turning out how it did was just a fluke too bad the better game is kind of figured out and dying out at this point.

Last edit: 2012-04-21 05:42:31

Blasterion China. April 21 2012 05:46. Posts 10268

On April 21 2012 05:38 Trok67 wrote:
units I would like the "gameplay" to be modified :

-banelings : they combine both AOE damage + bonus against light which makes them DEADLY against 2 units (marine and zerglings) and completely useless against any other unit in the game. I kinda feel that such a "niche" unit is not really good, it is really too good against zerglings and marine and too bad against other units

- corruptor : very meh units, not really fun to play, doesn't have any fun ability or gameplay mechanic + his bonus against massive units make carrier and battlecruisers completely worthless because they are so easily countered

-broodlord : the broodlings mechanic is just so annoying to play against, you just can't kill well microed and supported broodlords with ground units (your unit will just mess up with the broodlings) even if those units are supposed to be good against air units

- carrier/battlecruiser : didn't find their role in the game

cruisers have their place, endgame tvt AtS unit that don't succumb to marine fire.

[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread

hoivenmayven United States. April 21 2012 05:56. Posts 132

On April 21 2012 05:41 snakeeyez wrote:

This. It doesn't seem like blizz even realizes what they did right with BW. Now just obsessed with what toys Browder thinks would be cool to play with and making sure every unit in the game someday becomes a niche unit.

-- Thank you sir may I have another --

serge Russian Federation. April 21 2012 06:17. Posts 142

On April 21 2012 05:41 snakeeyez wrote:

It's really sad too. I think WoL had real potential if they just decided to say screw it and scrapped half of their ideas when they saw them half-fail. But I guess money interests are too much nowadays.

I am Malkovich.

obsid United States. April 21 2012 08:45. Posts 383

I somewhat agree, but banelings also are good against protoss and thor death balls, and are the ONLY way to really kill marines in ZvT other then infesters (and all of that fails against a good spread). Maybe marine has to be changed slightly in addition to this then.

- corruptor : very meh units, not really fun to play, doesn't have any fun ability or gameplay mechanic + his bonus against massive units make carrier and battlecruisers completely worthless because they are so easily countered
- carrier/battlecruiser : didn't find their role in the game

Somewhat agree with this, but again there has to be SOME way to counter these units colsi/carrier/bc's. Without corrupter they would be way too good currently, especially with splash damage like the colsi has. You get enough colsi and stalkers and nothing can stop them, and thats with corrupters!

-broodlord : the broodlings mechanic is just so annoying to play against, you just can't kill well microed and supported broodlords with ground units (your unit will just mess up with the broodlings) even if those units are supposed to be good against air units

I dont know what kind of game your playing but marines and stalkers can rip broodlords up really fast if your not careful. And air units also clearly work.

Don.681 Philippines. April 21 2012 09:48. Posts 173

On April 21 2012 00:01 Gfire wrote:
I hope they aren't too stubborn to make drastic changes to existing units like roaches even if they are not problematic in the current version. I could see them saying that unnecessary changes will just confuse the players too much. That was what they said when they refused to use the newer version of Korhal Compound in ladder, because it's winrates were balanced.

Truth is, they will be patching HotS and WoL separately so we're going to end up with different stats on some of the same units anyway. I think a drastic, obvious change from the beginning is far less confusing than that.

If they really wanted to do this, its easy --tweak the stats to to what they are really aiming for.
Then, if it's too different --change the model/skin/name.

No more confusion.

entrust Poland. April 21 2012 10:12. Posts 179

2) some coaches agree that SC2 seemed boring in comparison to BW.So when they have to force the players to play this game later on, they feel like players wouldn't be doing it for fun anymore = it actually will be forcing it.

From another thread, but whatever.

convention United States. April 21 2012 10:13. Posts 460