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| defteH United Kingdom. April 15 2012 01:21. Posts 134 | Profile # |
| I can sympathise, Gateway openers seem so rare its sometimes very off-putting to play against. But as many people have said, get speed, don't go for the third and just stay two base til you know what he's doing. Diligent scouting is the key in this scenario. |
| | "Think outside the box, collapse the box and take a f***ing sharp knife to it" |
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| Shrewmy Australia. April 15 2012 01:22. Posts 199 | Profile # |
Why are people saying drone scouting sets you back?
It's one drone. It's not going to lose you the game because you don't have those five extra minerals. |
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| Cereb Denmark. April 15 2012 01:40. Posts 2415 | Profile # |
This is how I think of it:
1) Don't take your third before natural unless you know for sure it's fe. You have to stay on two base vs a one base toss. There are so many ways to go pool into double expand and it barely matters econ wise. (Atleast the different kinds of plays I've tested in single player all ended up at the exact same econ at the 8 min mark, except for speedling expand which gives you less drones but more control.) The only reason to take your third before your natural is because it's usually where toss attacks and it gives you more creep spread at that area.
2) Now that you are on two bases you need to realise that protoss is going to be far behind on workers because he didn't fe. (You can easily see this in replays that fe keeps up with zerg's worker count but one base into expand falls way behind) The only way he can try to decrease your econ lead is by pressuring you with something you are not prepared for.
Which brings me to what you should make: Spine crawlers. They are by far the best choice at defending one base toss. And you need to make an evo chamber at the 6.00 min mark because otherwise you die to dts.
I have tried defending 3 gate pressure into expand with roach ling, and while it is doable, forcefields are going to be soo very good vs your slow roaches and he can actually pressure you into making so many units that you lose your econ advantage entirely and you may have to delay tech too. With spines you stay ahead in workers and get your tech up faster because they are much better vs forcefields and than your unteched hatch units. You still might need to roach warren though, if he goes one gateway all in (4gate or that robo thing). then you need all the units you can get.
3) The game is not going to be decided by whether you sqeeze one drone more out. But one of the most deciding factors in zvp is whether the zerg is able to hold off whatever toss throws at you early game. Just stay safe, if you crush his pressure you are in very great shape.
If it matters to you, I'm top 500 EU. But you could probably find other people, both better and worse than me, who thinks different from this. This is just how I like to deal with it.
If you insist that on some maps you have to take your third before your natural you'd have to cancel your third and just take your natural delayed cause there is no way you are holding anything, and even if you did, your drone count is going to be horrible and having three bases is going to be a disadvantage.
On the drone scouting thing. I think it was destiny and sheth who together tested that drone scouting will lose you around 150-200minirals or something along those lines. But that's not as bad as it sounds...
However, I still stopped doing drone scouting vs toss like 4-6 months ago, and I haven't lost a single game because of it. Last edit: 2012-04-15 01:43:27 |
| | "Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields |
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| jodenstone Sweden. April 15 2012 01:44. Posts 45 | Profile # |
Just cancel your third if you still can and play normally from there, you are behind compared to if you drone scouted, but blindly drone scouting early every game vs p will hurt your timings severely (like the stephano style). I would recommend basing your decision whether to drone scout on how frequent gateway expands are in your league. As someone here said 3 bases works fine against 1 gate expand, so if you can gather that information just make a couple more lings.
EDIT:dont forget to put down earlier evolution chamber, dts come way faster after gateway expoLast edit: 2012-04-15 01:47:03 |
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 Epsilon_Live April 15 2012 01:47. Posts 3 | Profile # | |
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| zJayy962 April 15 2012 01:47. Posts 1313 | Profile Blog # |
| Drone scout on 4 player maps at 14 supply. If its a 2 player map your overlord will get there on time before you put your 3rd down. If he blocks your natural don't go and take your 3rd. Fake taking your 3rd and his probe will follow. If hes any good he will cancel natural pylon so take your natural immediately afterwards. If they are doing 1 gate openers just drone until about ~45 supply, build a round (8 larva) roaches/lings and then take your 3rd. |
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| mapleleafs791 United States. April 15 2012 03:13. Posts 225 | Profile # |
One SCV on one mineral patch harvests 39-45 minerals per game minute, depending on distance
 Resources#Mining Rates
Drone scout by 14 at the latest and you should be fine, 80-100 minerals wont kill you if you are concerned about this.
Cerebs advice is pretty good as that is what i do in terms of using spines to defend timings while you drone.
Then you can go 2 base [I love 2 base muta-ing gate opening tosses since i already make spines] or you can take a 3rd.
I just 2 base muta vs every gate expand as they are so rare i dont feel like learning to play standard vs it yet.
just realize they cant keep up on drones like usual so droning heavily behind 2 spines is completely legitLast edit: 2012-04-15 03:13:37 |
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