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| Positronic May 30 2012 01:37. Posts 121 | Profile # |
| So what are you going to do now LS? You can't just leave us all with these RBBG blue balls |
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| SunStone May 30 2012 07:17. Posts 10 | Profile # |
I understand that this is LS's fan club, but do you actually think that was possible? I'm sure that he was just hoping to give a good showing. Winning the entire thing was totally out of the question.
Well, I didn't think could take the whole thing, but I wanted it to happen. That's why I'm here.
Got me. Is my bias obvious? :D
Why would you say that? It's pretty clear that he would have had trouble advancing from any of the other groups. What players at the event do you consider him superior to? I think the only case that could possibly be made is Ostojiy and Illusion.
Ganzi, Sheth, Ostojiy, Huk, Violet (maybe),
He only has to beat 2 people in the group to advance (except in some 3-way tie cases). I know lastshadow can beat illusion, and illusion beat Ganzi (although it was close). Sheth's worst matchup is ZvT, and illusion gave Violet a real run for his money.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we'll never know now, so I can have any opinion I want!  |
| | why can't i remember the last time I watched an important game that didn't have a zerg in it? |
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| gullberg Sweden. May 30 2012 07:24. Posts 1266 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 07:17 SunStone wrote:
Show nested quote +I understand that this is LS's fan club, but do you actually think that was possible? I'm sure that he was just hoping to give a good showing. Winning the entire thing was totally out of the question.
Well, I didn't think could take the whole thing, but I wanted it to happen. That's why I'm here. Got me. Is my bias obvious? :D
Show nested quote +
I bet money that lastshadow could have made it out of any other group
Why would you say that? It's pretty clear that he would have had trouble advancing from any of the other groups. What players at the event do you consider him superior to? I think the only case that could possibly be made is Ostojiy and Illusion.
Ganzi, Sheth, Ostojiy, Huk, Violet (maybe), He only has to beat 2 people in the group to advance (except in some 3-way tie cases). I know lastshadow can beat illusion, and illusion beat Ganzi (although it was close). Sheth's worst matchup is ZvT, and illusion gave Violet a real run for his money. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we'll never know now, so I can have any opinion I want!
You "know" that LS can beat Illusion? I know that this is a fanclub but that is pure fanboyism and nothing more. |
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| mrtomjones Canada. May 30 2012 09:46. Posts 3878 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 07:24 gullberg wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 07:17 SunStone wrote:
I understand that this is LS's fan club, but do you actually think that was possible? I'm sure that he was just hoping to give a good showing. Winning the entire thing was totally out of the question.
Well, I didn't think could take the whole thing, but I wanted it to happen. That's why I'm here.
and Liquid'Ret (Best foreigner zerg hands down)?
Stephano?
Got me. Is my bias obvious? :D
I bet money that lastshadow could have made it out of any other group
Why would you say that? It's pretty clear that he would have had trouble advancing from any of the other groups. What players at the event do you consider him superior to? I think the only case that could possibly be made is Ostojiy and Illusion.
Ganzi, Sheth, Ostojiy, Huk, Violet (maybe), He only has to beat 2 people in the group to advance (except in some 3-way tie cases). I know lastshadow can beat illusion, and illusion beat Ganzi (although it was close). Sheth's worst matchup is ZvT, and illusion gave Violet a real run for his money. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we'll never know now, so I can have any opinion I want!
You "know" that LS can beat Illusion? I know that this is a fanclub but that is pure fanboyism and nothing more.
Are you saying he couldn't beat those guys on a good day? he could. I'm not even historically a fan.
GL back in Korea LS. Ignore the douchebags!
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| furerkip United States. May 30 2012 10:03. Posts 424 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 09:46 mrtomjones wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 07:24 gullberg wrote:
On May 30 2012 07:17 SunStone wrote:
I understand that this is LS's fan club, but do you actually think that was possible? I'm sure that he was just hoping to give a good showing. Winning the entire thing was totally out of the question.
Well, I didn't think could take the whole thing, but I wanted it to happen. That's why I'm here.
and Liquid'Ret (Best foreigner zerg hands down)?
Stephano?
Got me. Is my bias obvious? :D
I bet money that lastshadow could have made it out of any other group
Why would you say that? It's pretty clear that he would have had trouble advancing from any of the other groups. What players at the event do you consider him superior to? I think the only case that could possibly be made is Ostojiy and Illusion.
Ganzi, Sheth, Ostojiy, Huk, Violet (maybe), He only has to beat 2 people in the group to advance (except in some 3-way tie cases). I know lastshadow can beat illusion, and illusion beat Ganzi (although it was close). Sheth's worst matchup is ZvT, and illusion gave Violet a real run for his money. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we'll never know now, so I can have any opinion I want!
You "know" that LS can beat Illusion? I know that this is a fanclub but that is pure fanboyism and nothing more.
Are you saying he couldn't beat those guys on a good day? he could. I'm not even historically a fan. GL back in Korea LS. Ignore the douchebags!
I don't know if you know, but Illusion is pretty damn good... as well as Ganzi, Violet, and HuK. LS could beat Ostojiy for sure, but I mean, he's not favored vs Illusion/Ganzi/Violet/Huk, maybe equal to Illusion. |
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 Silvertine United States. May 30 2012 12:04. Posts 509 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 07:17 SunStone wrote:
Ganzi, Sheth, Ostojiy, Huk, Violet (maybe),
That's crazy, there is no way that LS is comparable to HuK or Violet. I know that some bias is to be expected in a fan club but you can't just say totally baseless things. I don't even see what the point is of saying something like that. Even if I was the biggest LS fan in the world I would understand that he can't be compared to elite players yet.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but we'll never know now, so I can have any opinion I want!
There's a very easy way to know and it's called looking at results. You're free to have a baseless opinion but when you present it in a thread, even a fan club, people are also free to point out how silly it is. |
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| SunStone May 30 2012 12:47. Posts 10 | Profile # |
You "know" that LS can beat Illusion? I know that this is a fanclub but that is pure fanboyism and nothing more.
Well, they run into each other on the korean ladder, and lastshadow tends to win (at least in games that I've seen).
That's crazy, there is no way that LS is comparable to HuK or Violet. I know that some bias is to be expected in a fan club but you can't just say totally baseless things. I don't even see what the point is of saying something like that. Even if I was the biggest LS fan in the world I would understand that he can't be compared to elite players yet.
There's a very easy way to know and it's called looking at results. You're free to have a baseless opinion but when you present it in a thread, even a fan club, people are also free to point out how silly it is.
I'm by no means saying that lastshadow would definitively beat these players. Like you said, they're the elite in the starcraft community. I'm saying that he has a better chance vs. violet and HuK than he would against PartinG and Squirtle. And as for results, I can only judge lastshadow on his ladder performance since he has no recent tournament experience (before RBBG). When I watch his stream, I see him playing against high code A and a few code S players and winning. Not all the time, maybe not even half the time, but he has the potential to do it. Also, as I said before, illusion pushed violet to his limits, and even though illusion is a very good player, he isn't lastshadow. If he can beat Nestea, he can probably beat violet too.
I don't even see what the point is of saying something like that.
Just trying to be encouraging. No one is at their best after taking a loss like lastshadow did in the RBBG. |
| | why can't i remember the last time I watched an important game that didn't have a zerg in it? |
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| InvictusRage United States. May 30 2012 13:56. Posts 107 | Profile # |
Last edit: 2012-08-13 12:41:50 |
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| Silvertine United States. May 30 2012 14:16. Posts 509 | Profile # |
I'm saying that he has a better chance vs. violet and HuK than he would against PartinG and Squirtle.
That's fine, but what you said earlier is that you would bet money that LS would have made it out of any other group and that's just not realistic at all.
I'm willing to bet money that LS will tell you himself that the way he was playing, he would have got crushed in any other group.
And as for results, I can only judge lastshadow on his ladder performance since he has no recent tournament experience (before RBBG). When I watch his stream, I see him playing against high code A and a few code S players and winning. Not all the time, maybe not even half the time, but he has the potential to do it.
If he can beat Nestea, he can probably beat violet too.
We've been over this so many times in the SC2 community, that logic just doesn't work. Anyone can take a game off a Code S player on ladder. It does absolutely nothing to prove that they would have a chance against them in a tournament. Tournament results are how we judge players, not cherry picking games on ladder.
Just trying to be encouraging. No one is at their best after taking a loss like lastshadow did in the RBBG.
That's a nice sentiment but you can be encouraging without saying things that clearly aren't true. |
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| NoMoreHero United States. May 30 2012 17:07. Posts 76 | Profile # |
He rages quite often. Last public one was at NESC2 S2 grand finals where he lost to Boyo and accused him of cheating due to his unorthodox bo's(he's a young gamer, the young ones tend to create the new bo's).
After speaking with people that were at the event, yes he's a good player, but seems too full of himself and obviously can't keep his cool esp when losing to GM toss at Boyo's level. |
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| huehuehuehue Estonia. May 30 2012 17:20. Posts 451 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 17:07 NoMoreHero wrote:
He rages quite often. Last public one was at NESC2 S2 grand finals where he lost to Boyo and accused him of cheating due to his unorthodox bo's(he's a young gamer, the young ones tend to create the new bo's).
After speaking with people that were at the event, yes he's a good player, but seems too full of himself and obviously can't keep his cool esp when losing to GM toss at Boyo's level.
Rotterdam was talking yesterday about how he talked shit to Snute about how foreigners are all bad etc. And even IdrA said that he has a bad attitude.. |
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| Felnarion May 30 2012 23:24. Posts 362 | Profile # |
Raging is nothing. Idra's broken stuff after matches, tells people to apologize for playing a race, and is always BMing something. Not that I don't like him, or enjoy that, the scene needs bad guys too.
But there are replays that exist showing LS beating players like MC (Who won the tournament). He deserved to be there just as much as Ostojiy. And both of them deserved it, it's fine to invite underdogs to tournaments, even invite only ones.
Also: Here's the real "Foreigners are trash" quote
I think foreigners are terrible in StarCraft2 and don't deserve to beat Koreans. I mean obvious exceptions to this are foreigners who reside in Korea (even if they're not known or as good as the Koreans, they at least commit the same way Koreans do) and/or honestly good foreigners like Stephano, Thorzain, Ret, Juan, IdrA, etc, I could name a few more but that's the general gist.
Last edit: 2012-05-30 23:40:14 |
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| NoMoreHero United States. May 31 2012 05:46. Posts 76 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 23:24 Felnarion wrote:Raging is nothing. Idra's broken stuff after matches, tells people to apologize for playing a race, and is always BMing something. Not that I don't like him, or enjoy that, the scene needs bad guys too. But there are replays that exist showing LS beating players like MC (Who won the tournament). He deserved to be there just as much as Ostojiy. And both of them deserved it, it's fine to invite underdogs to tournaments, even invite only ones. Also: Here's the real "Foreigners are trash" quote
Show nested quote +I think foreigners are terrible in StarCraft2 and don't deserve to beat Koreans. I mean obvious exceptions to this are foreigners who reside in Korea (even if they're not known or as good as the Koreans, they at least commit the same way Koreans do) and/or honestly good foreigners like Stephano, Thorzain, Ret, Juan, IdrA, etc, I could name a few more but that's the general gist.
It's not his raging but his BM, also no he did not deserve to be there IMO |
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| SunStone May 31 2012 07:51. Posts 10 | Profile # |
That's fine, but what you said earlier is that you would bet money that LS would have made it out of any other group and that's just not realistic at all.
I'm willing to bet money that LS will tell you himself that the way he was playing, he would have got crushed in any other group.
Agreed. But keep in mind, that's what was going through my head before the tournament. Obviously lastshadow wasn't playing his best, but I don't think many people could play at their maximum potential with that kind of pressure on them.
We've been over this so many times in the SC2 community, that logic just doesn't work. Anyone can take a game off a Code S player on ladder. It does absolutely nothing to prove that they would have a chance against them in a tournament. Tournament results are how we judge players, not cherry picking games on ladder.
Well, yes, it is more accurate to use tournament results rather than ladder - but as I said before, lastshadow hasn't been at tournaments, so his ladder record is all I have to look at, and it's pretty good. We saw the same thing happen with Jjakji - He didn't really do any tournaments for a long time - he just practiced a bunch, laddered hard, and came out of nowhere to win GSL. |
| | why can't i remember the last time I watched an important game that didn't have a zerg in it? |
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| NoMoreHero United States. May 31 2012 10:54. Posts 76 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 07:51 SunStone wrote:
Show nested quote +That's fine, but what you said earlier is that you would bet money that LS would have made it out of any other group and that's just not realistic at all.
I'm willing to bet money that LS will tell you himself that the way he was playing, he would have got crushed in any other group.
Agreed. But keep in mind, that's what was going through my head before the tournament. Obviously lastshadow wasn't playing his best, but I don't think many people could play at their maximum potential with that kind of pressure on them.
Show nested quote +We've been over this so many times in the SC2 community, that logic just doesn't work. Anyone can take a game off a Code S player on ladder. It does absolutely nothing to prove that they would have a chance against them in a tournament. Tournament results are how we judge players, not cherry picking games on ladder.
Well, yes, it is more accurate to use tournament results rather than ladder - but as I said before, lastshadow hasn't been at tournaments, so his ladder record is all I have to look at, and it's pretty good. We saw the same thing happen with Jjakji - He didn't really do any tournaments for a long time - he just practiced a bunch, laddered hard, and came out of nowhere to win GSL.
Do not compare LS to Jjakji, there is no comparison. Yes to them not having tourney results in anything big for a long time, but Jjakji is a GSL champ and LS is a chump, he's still better then me, but I still have better manners |
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 Random_Guy09 Canada. May 31 2012 11:21. Posts 800 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 05:46 NoMoreHero wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:24 Felnarion wrote:Raging is nothing. Idra's broken stuff after matches, tells people to apologize for playing a race, and is always BMing something. Not that I don't like him, or enjoy that, the scene needs bad guys too. But there are replays that exist showing LS beating players like MC (Who won the tournament). He deserved to be there just as much as Ostojiy. And both of them deserved it, it's fine to invite underdogs to tournaments, even invite only ones. Also: Here's the real "Foreigners are trash" quote
I think foreigners are terrible in StarCraft2 and don't deserve to beat Koreans. I mean obvious exceptions to this are foreigners who reside in Korea (even if they're not known or as good as the Koreans, they at least commit the same way Koreans do) and/or honestly good foreigners like Stephano, Thorzain, Ret, Juan, IdrA, etc, I could name a few more but that's the general gist.
It's not his raging but his BM, also no he did not deserve to be there IMO
I actually thought about reasons why he was there in the first place and they'd all make sense in a way.
It's been said that all these good ladder players need a way to get recognized and get more exposure in some way then trying to fight for passes for MLG open brackets that get taken by low league people that dont deserve them. So by Day9 advertising his stream and such got him on the map again. Then after hearing about all the BM he's done and such and bringing up that he's beaten them on KR ladder (Which is way different than playing in a tournament and beating koreans on ladder means nothing as its just a testing ground for them when they're not using practice partners) and saying only GSL really matters and all that other stuff. So why not throw him into a tournament to have him back up what he said? Bring him into the tournament scene and see if he's really as good as he's said to be by bragging about beating alot of the invited koreans on ladder and see how he adapts to their different play (Because they obviously mix it up alot more in tournaments then on ladder). His mechanics weren't bad but his BO's and such just seemed pretty bad and instead of walling off like every other terran does he used bunkers as defense which didnt really make sense and didnt work (dont even have to mention the proof game as everyone already knows what im talking about ) So he was just generally there to get exposure and see if he was actually as good as was said and he just completely fell apart.
Plus by forfieting the last meaningless game showed he didnt really care. Anyone else would have played that game anyways (even though they knew they werent going ot make it to groups) just to show that they still had some fight in them and that they had pride to atleast fight for a meaningless win and possibly make it an epic game. And using a sickness isnt really an excuse because from what i heard Violet won MLG spring Arena 2 when he was sick and played through that whole tournament not using it as an excuse for bad play.
So this pretty much gives him no right for any BM at all because he got exposed pretty badly at Redbull Battlegrounds |
| | Grubby|Liquid`HerO|ST_Squirtle|ST_PartinG|CreatorPrime Na'Vi |
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| Chaggi Korea (South). May 31 2012 11:23. Posts 1090 | Profile # |
To be fair, Jjakji has a pro team, and his main form of practice is probably not laddering, but actually facing GSL Code S players on a regular basis
And also, just cause you can beat someone in a BO1 (aka ladder match) doesn't mean you can beat them in a BO3 or BO5...etc, no one really takes ladder seriously as a pro. |
| | University of Michigan '10 Alumni |
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| neoghaleon55 United States. June 01 2012 08:46. Posts 6197 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Nonexistent United States. June 01 2012 08:50. Posts 49 | Profile # |
| Sign me up, ty. I watched LS's Artosis interview in Seoul recently and instantly took a liking to the player. |
| | "If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." - Bisu |
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| furerkip United States. June 02 2012 09:48. Posts 424 | Profile # |
| Looks like a ninja on stream lol |
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