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| CakeSauc3 United States. April 18 2012 00:46. Posts 313 | Profile # |
My little brother has both down syndrome and autism... this video is horrible to me, that is SO wrong what they are doing, it's almost unspeakable.
Whoever's responsible for this, I hope they get punished severely, and I hope the people being tortured in that facility are removed ASAP. The fact that this video is from 2002 is even worse, because who knows how many times this has happened since then...
I mean, what are these people, Nazis against people with mental disorders? That is absolutely unacceptable. |
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| -_-Quails Australia. April 18 2012 00:47. Posts 793 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:29 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 00:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:17 sc4k wrote:
THe worse thing is that the majority of us can sympathise with the kid. If some twat with a condescending voice orders you to take off your coat...why the hell should you? You're happy in your coat. Not like you're hurting anyone.
You've never worked a job, have you...?
Autistic people are not really worker material you know. Not formatted enough ...
Depends on the autistic person. But I would say that, I'm from an engineering family with plenty of autistic members. One of them designed infrastructure that wasn't constructed until decades after his death. |
| | "I post only when my brain works." - Reaper9 |
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| S2Glow Singapore. April 18 2012 00:47. Posts 991 | Profile Blog # |
| pure torture.. better not to send your kids to strangers :D |
| | <3 Katelyn , C Zerg. Dying wish is to watch proleague live and see my girlfriend which gonna be soon! <33 |
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| Telcontar United Kingdom. April 18 2012 00:48. Posts 15880 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 23:12 Deadeight wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 23:07 Telcontar wrote:
Just horrific. Do they really think this is shock therapy? or that it's helping the kids in the right way? I just can't wrap my head around what must be going through these people's minds.
Why do you think you're in a position to judge what is a better treatment than a psychiatrist? I'm not saying the treatment is right or wrong, but it surprises me that you seem to know and with so much certainty.
Are you seriously telling me I need to provide credentials to condemn this sort of practice and those who perform it? Perhaps you should provide yours first, and how in your expert capacity, this kind of abuse is acceptable. |
| | Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. |
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| oGoZenob France. April 18 2012 00:50. Posts 396 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:44 scaban84 wrote:
I am amazed at the sheepishness of some of the comments in this thread. Whether the kid is diagnosed with autism or not is irrelevant. Just because someone with a degree says something is wrong with you and gives it a name doesn't justify unequal treatment under the law. This is the same mentality that allowed the Waco masssacres to happen... because they were considered 'crazies' anyway.
Who cares if the kid was angry and disobedient. I believe in a America you have a right to be a jerk.
This video churns my stomach. To know that this distopian shit is happening around the corner from me.
All I want to ask is.. where is the father? This is what happens when we leave women to do all the parenting/teaching. All these kids need are more alpha role models in their lives to put them in line. Not torture, jesus christ.
Your post is wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to start. The boy is not a jerk, he is autistic. There is a huge difference. And wtf with the mysogynic bs ? As you may have notice, it's not 1900 anymore. Nowadays, we even believe that women are people. |
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| Telcontar United Kingdom. April 18 2012 00:53. Posts 15880 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:47 S2Glow wrote:
pure torture.. better not to send your kids to strangers :D
This actually made me remember an incident back in kindergarden where a lady teacher thought it was acceptable to punish kids who didn't want to sleep during nap time by poking their palms with needles. When I got home and told my parents what had happened, they called the cops and went to confront the teacher with other parents. I guess some people just don't think shit through, or give a damn when it comes to other people's kids.Last edit: 2012-04-18 00:53:40 |
| | Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. |
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| mcc Czech Republic. April 18 2012 00:58. Posts 3821 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:44 scaban84 wrote:
I am amazed at the sheepishness of some of the comments in this thread. Whether the kid is diagnosed with autism or not is irrelevant. Just because someone with a degree says something is wrong with you and gives it a name doesn't justify unequal treatment under the law. This is the same mentality that allowed the Waco masssacres to happen... because they were considered 'crazies' anyway.
Who cares if the kid was angry and disobedient. I believe in a America you have a right to be a jerk.
This video churns my stomach. To know that this distopian shit is happening around the corner from me.
All I want to ask is.. where is the father? This is what happens when we leave women to do all the parenting/teaching. All these kids need are more alpha role models in their lives to put them in line. Not torture, jesus christ.
Ah winner of the most ignorant comment I have seen in a long time. Do you know what autism is and how useless will your alpha role model be ? |
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| GetSome United States. April 18 2012 01:00. Posts 35 | Profile # |
| I would love to hear the defence in this case. Before I cast my judgement I would really like to hear both sides. Never-the-less the defence better have a solid case because I cant see this ending well for them. |
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| mcc Czech Republic. April 18 2012 01:01. Posts 3821 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:47 -_-Quails wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 00:29 Otolia wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:17 sc4k wrote:
THe worse thing is that the majority of us can sympathise with the kid. If some twat with a condescending voice orders you to take off your coat...why the hell should you? You're happy in your coat. Not like you're hurting anyone.
You've never worked a job, have you...?
Autistic people are not really worker material you know. Not formatted enough ...
Depends on the autistic person. But I would say that, I'm from an engineering family with plenty of autistic members. One of them designed infrastructure that wasn't constructed until decades after his death.
The definition of autism gets inflated, I and a lot of other people I know use the name only for the severe autism. If you can finish highschool you do not have autism. Similarly Aspergers is not autism in this definition. |
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 HaXXspetten Sweden. April 18 2012 01:05. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
| This is just disgusting, how can anyone stand for this shit? I don't understand what the hell are going through their head as their doing this to the poor guy, there is litterally no excuse for it. Fucking hell this is wrong... |
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| scaban84 United States. April 18 2012 01:06. Posts 985 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 00:50 oGoZenob wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 00:44 scaban84 wrote:
I am amazed at the sheepishness of some of the comments in this thread. Whether the kid is diagnosed with autism or not is irrelevant. Just because someone with a degree says something is wrong with you and gives it a name doesn't justify unequal treatment under the law. This is the same mentality that allowed the Waco masssacres to happen... because they were considered 'crazies' anyway.
Who cares if the kid was angry and disobedient. I believe in a America you have a right to be a jerk.
This video churns my stomach. To know that this distopian shit is happening around the corner from me.
All I want to ask is.. where is the father? This is what happens when we leave women to do all the parenting/teaching. All these kids need are more alpha role models in their lives to put them in line. Not torture, jesus christ.
Your post is wrong in so many ways I don't even know where to start. The boy is not a jerk, he is autistic. There is a huge difference. And wtf with the mysogynic bs ? As you may have notice, it's not 1900 anymore. Nowadays, we even believe that women are people.
There is nothing "mysogynic" about saying there should be an equal share of parenting and teaching duties between men and women. And I know what autism is. It doesn't justify torture and unequal treatment under the law. |
| | "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." — Friedrich von Hayek |
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| Doctorbeat Netherlands. April 18 2012 01:07. Posts 3237 | Profile # |
I definitely reserve my judgement on this case because there hasn't been a response from the JRC yet.
This skin shock is not the same as electroshock therapy, it's used as adverse reinforcement. They place electrodes on the skin of clients and when the clients do something bad, they receive a 2 second shock.
Even though I do think they went over the edge with this one, people with mental disabilities can be very very dangerous for themselves and the people around them. If this method actually works and keeps them from harming themselves and others without severely deteriorating their quality of life, I would support it but only for the most severe cases in which there are no other options.
I mean, a lot of people with severe mental disabilities are just drugged to hell in order to not have them be violent all the time. I don't think we can consider such measures to give a good quality of life either. |
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| Muffinman53 April 18 2012 01:12. Posts 507 | Profile # |
This is what I imagined when I read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I thought we had stopped this crap a while ago though...
This is sickening. |
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| discomatt April 18 2012 01:14. Posts 104 | Profile # |
Do we know for certain someone of sound mind would react this way to the pain from the shock?
Could it be the child vastly over-reacting? Like one who is told they can't have some toy, then begins to go absolutely ape-shit in the store aisle?
I'm not condoning or condemning. Anyone who is though, is doing so on assumptions. It could be a mild shock that the child is fighting against, beyond necessity. It could be a very harsh shock, that is border-line torture.
Regardless, my mother works with disabled children for the school board here. The kids they throw into those institutions are the worst of the worst. They've earned their place there by attacking, injuring and destroying. They are a burden, no matter how you look at it. The parents don't want to deal with it, and I don't think an average care worker should have to either. They need what nearly amounts to prisons to keep those working around them safe from harm |
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| xShade Canada. April 18 2012 01:16. Posts 52 | Profile # |
I think these guys took the "jacket on/jacket off" technique a little too seriously...
But seriously the fact that this is within their "legal bounds" is fucked up. Where do you draw the line with shock therapy and abuse... 31 times seems quite obsessive |
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| horsebanger April 18 2012 01:16. Posts 132 | Profile # |
that'll teach him to remove his jacket
User was temp banned for this post. |
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| scaban84 United States. April 18 2012 01:19. Posts 985 | Profile # |
On April 18 2012 01:01 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 00:47 -_-Quails wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:29 Otolia wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:17 sc4k wrote:
THe worse thing is that the majority of us can sympathise with the kid. If some twat with a condescending voice orders you to take off your coat...why the hell should you? You're happy in your coat. Not like you're hurting anyone.
You've never worked a job, have you...?
Autistic people are not really worker material you know. Not formatted enough ...
Depends on the autistic person. But I would say that, I'm from an engineering family with plenty of autistic members. One of them designed infrastructure that wasn't constructed until decades after his death.
The definition of autism gets inflated, I and a lot of other people I know use the name only for the severe autism. If you can finish highschool you do not have autism. Similarly Aspergers is not autism in this definition.
This has got to be the most ignorant post of all time. "If you finish high school you do not have autism"??? Did you hear of Temple Grandin? Autism has nothing to do with your intelligence and ability to complete an education. If you finish high school you do not have Aspergers? Wow. How does social impairment impact your level of education? Autistic people are completely capable of an education and living a professional life. Autism is defined by behavior and is completely subjective. Last edit: 2012-04-18 01:21:39 |
| | "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design." — Friedrich von Hayek |
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| StarStruck April 18 2012 01:25. Posts 19309 | Profile # |
On April 17 2012 18:52 Rannasha wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 18:48 TehPrime wrote:
On April 17 2012 18:47 mcc wrote:
Is there any source where it says the guy is autistic ?
The center is a special place to cure/deal with kids with extreme autism and other behavioral disorder.
Judging from the video, the guy seems to be quite articulate. Granted, he doesn't say more than "help me" and "no", but it comes out smoothly. Kids with severe cases of autism almost always have greatly diminished language and speech capabilities and are normally extremely quiet. Other than the guy being held in a center for behavioral disorders, there is no indication that he has autism from the news article or the video.
What the fuck? That's a gross exaggeration if I ever heard one. Extremely severe. No just no.
On April 18 2012 01:19 scaban84 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 01:01 mcc wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:47 -_-Quails wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:29 Otolia wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On April 18 2012 00:17 sc4k wrote:
THe worse thing is that the majority of us can sympathise with the kid. If some twat with a condescending voice orders you to take off your coat...why the hell should you? You're happy in your coat. Not like you're hurting anyone.
You've never worked a job, have you...?
Autistic people are not really worker material you know. Not formatted enough ...
Depends on the autistic person. But I would say that, I'm from an engineering family with plenty of autistic members. One of them designed infrastructure that wasn't constructed until decades after his death.
The definition of autism gets inflated, I and a lot of other people I know use the name only for the severe autism. If you can finish highschool you do not have autism. Similarly Aspergers is not autism in this definition.
This has got to be the most ignorant post of all time. "If you finish high school you do not have autism"??? Did you hear of Temple Grandin? Autism has nothing to do with your intelligence and ability to complete an education. If you finish high school you do not have Aspergers? Wow. How does social impairment impact your level of education? Autistic people are completely capable of an education and living a professional life. Autism is defined by behavior and is completely subjective.
So many uneducated people on autism. I'm shocked.Last edit: 2012-04-18 01:26:46 |
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| TheToast United States. April 18 2012 01:26. Posts 4804 | Profile Blog # |
On April 17 2012 20:15 Gak2 wrote:
My opinion on this is rather moderate and tempers seem to be high on this thread so I'm gonna try and choose my words carefully.
The news report itself is clearly trying to appeal to your emotional sense so first try and see past that.
Now the thing is, it is hard to actually determine how much pain the boy is feeling since the yelling may be actually caused more by his anger and stress rather than the actual electric shock he's receiving, and we are not told how strong the shock is. I would guess that he exhibits similar responses to every single command or request he disagrees with, since that is most likely the reason he is institutionalized in the first place. Perhaps the only way to correct the behaviour of this teenager is through classical conditioning, which is what they are attempting through the shock therapy.
As for whether or not shock therapy is the right course of action... my immediate belief is no. Still, I'm not familiar with current methods on psychological treatment, and it could be they tried every other treatment in the book to no avail.
The mother is probably not telling the completely truth. You don't put your child in a facility that does this kind of stuff without knowing it beforehand. There must have been some sort of consent form she had to sign when he was put there in the first place.
Anyway, I'm not saying that I agree with what happened at all, just that there are a lot of things you need to take into account before you can make the correct judgment.
I think this is by far the most intelligent comment in this thread. Pretty much said everything I was thinking.
I'm getting quite tired of people's knee-jerk over the top emotional reactions. None of us know for sure the level of pain the child was subjected to, it may have even been relatively mild; and the child's reaction reaction may have been a result of his mental illness. He may react similarly to other stimuli or forms of punishment as well. Autism can manifest in a number of severities, and it's quite possible that this child's case is very extreme. Calling this torture without any of this background information on this child or his mental illness is completely absurd. People need to think before they type.
It sounds like this medical center followed all of the required proceedures to develope this treatment methode including review by a number of medical and ethics panels. If in the course of this court case this turns out to be true, I'd be strongly tempted to side with the medical center. I'd be left to wonder (as I am now) if this isn't a frivalous lawsuit or a case motivated by the emotional state of a distraut mother intead of being driven by actual medical malpractice or ethics violations.
They may have simply been trying a more intense course of treatment. Whether it was the right course of action is a matter for psycologists, psychiatrists, and medical doctors familiar with the child's medical and mental state and history to determine. What looks mean and terrible may actually be an effective treatment which could drastically improve the quality of life for this kids, wouldn't that be justifiable? Though the bottom line here is that none of us know the facts and few of us (any doctors being the exception) would be qualified to make any determination about the viability, ethics, or medical soundness of this specific treatment option. |
| | I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid. | |
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| Sickkiee Japan. April 18 2012 01:27. Posts 512 | Profile Blog # |
On April 18 2012 01:26 TheToast wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 20:15 Gak2 wrote:
My opinion on this is rather moderate and tempers seem to be high on this thread so I'm gonna try and choose my words carefully.
The news report itself is clearly trying to appeal to your emotional sense so first try and see past that.
Now the thing is, it is hard to actually determine how much pain the boy is feeling since the yelling may be actually caused more by his anger and stress rather than the actual electric shock he's receiving, and we are not told how strong the shock is. I would guess that he exhibits similar responses to every single command or request he disagrees with, since that is most likely the reason he is institutionalized in the first place. Perhaps the only way to correct the behaviour of this teenager is through classical conditioning, which is what they are attempting through the shock therapy.
As for whether or not shock therapy is the right course of action... my immediate belief is no. Still, I'm not familiar with current methods on psychological treatment, and it could be they tried every other treatment in the book to no avail.
The mother is probably not telling the completely truth. You don't put your child in a facility that does this kind of stuff without knowing it beforehand. There must have been some sort of consent form she had to sign when he was put there in the first place.
Anyway, I'm not saying that I agree with what happened at all, just that there are a lot of things you need to take into account before you can make the correct judgment.
I think this is by far the most intelligent comment in this thread. Pretty much said everything I was thinking. I'm getting quite tired of people's knee-jerk over the top emotional reactions. None of us know for sure the level of pain the child was subjected to, it may have even been relatively mild; and the child's reaction reaction may have been a result of his mental illness. He may react similarly to other stimuli or forms of punishment as well. Autism can manifest in a number of severities, and it's quite possible that this child's case is very extreme. Calling this torture without any of this background information on this child or his mental illness is completely absurd. People need to think before they type. It sounds like this medical center followed all of the required proceedures to develope this treatment methode including review by a number of medical and ethics panels. If in the course of this court case this turns out to be true, I'd be strongly tempted to side with the medical center. I'd be left to wonder (as I am now) if this isn't a frivalous lawsuit or a case motivated by the emotional state of a distraut mother intead of being driven by actual medical malpractice or ethics violations. They may have simply been trying a more intense course of treatment. Whether it was the right course of action is a matter for psycologists, psychiatrists, and medical doctors familiar with the child's medical and mental state and history to determine. What looks mean and terrible may actually be an effective treatment which could drastically improve the quality of life for this kids, wouldn't that be justifiable? Though the bottom line here is that none of us know the facts and few of us (any doctors being the exception) would be qualified to make any determination about the viability, ethics, or medical soundness of this specific treatment option.
I agree 100% with these two statements. This is exactly like the Kony 2012 scandal, made to appeal to peoples emotional sides and invoke rage, disgust and more; without even being present the entire facts at hand.
Reading the edit from the institute, it seems to me that parents and doctors know full well what happens, and it is eval'ed by multiple people... so to send your kid to that place and saying she knew nothing is a piss-poor excuse. Last edit: 2012-04-18 01:31:14 |
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