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| Greentellon Finland. April 22 2012 02:35. Posts 1127 | Profile # | |
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| mynameisgreat11 April 22 2012 02:37. Posts 599 | Profile # |
It is a fact the president is either (D) or (R). Sad but true. |
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| Papulatus United States. April 22 2012 02:39. Posts 655 | Profile # |
Would be great if third parties could gain strength in our political system but unfortunately they don't have anywhere near the money or influence that the republicans or democrats have. |
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| Etrnity United States. April 22 2012 02:40. Posts 88 | Profile # |
First past the post system tends to provide one party or another with control in a country, and two main parties overall. Since we don't have a proportional representative parliament, this is why. Pretty easy to understand. Just open a wiki on it.
EDIT: ClarificationLast edit: 2012-04-22 02:41:28 |
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| koreasilver Canada. April 22 2012 02:40. Posts 7514 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner. Last edit: 2012-04-22 02:41:24 |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt |
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| CajunMan United States. April 22 2012 02:43. Posts 801 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:30 PlaGuE_R wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 18:24 murphs wrote:
Dear America,
Vote Obama.
Sincerely,
Rest of the fucking world.
Agreed, from France 
Aren't you guys about to elect a socialist? I'm sure you'd love Obama lul. |
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| Etrnity United States. April 22 2012 02:45. Posts 88 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
User was warned for this post |
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| mynameisgreat11 April 22 2012 02:50. Posts 599 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
My personal experiences with Mormonism make me think that I am right in saying that Romney has a stronger affiliation with his faith than Obama.
Neither one of us can definitively say how strong either one's convictions are. All we see are what is presented to us by media. What we think about this specific issue cannot be anything beyond speculation. So, my opinion in my first sentence of this post is just that, an opinion. |
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| mynameisgreat11 April 22 2012 02:51. Posts 599 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:45 Etrnity wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
There. Proof that God loves everybody. Unless you're not Christian.
User was warned for this post |
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| frogrubdown April 22 2012 03:00. Posts 992 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:20 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:08 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:56 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
On April 22 2012 01:45 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
No, I just think that anyone faithful to mormonism has serious problems making logical decisions and seriously impaired judgment. Thus I don't want that person to become the most powerful man in the world. Make sense now?
Can you provide examples of his bad decisions and impaired judgement? Because that's what I'm asking. If he really does these things then you should be listing them and explaining why they are bad. Instead you're just tying in Mormonism as illogical, without showing how Romney has been illogical, or how Mormonism has lead him to those actions.
No I can't. I'm afraid for what's to come, because every candidate makes sure that people like him before the vote, that doesn't stop them from doing retarded things once elected (hi bush). Thus: I distrust him because in my experience any person belonging to something as weird as mormonism (and I know quite a few) to be lacking a couple of marbles. edit: on second thought, there are a couple of things where I facepalmed IRL, but I can't really remember what they were. If I find them I'll post them here.
Why didn't he do things when he was Governor of Massachusetts then? Or is this some mass mormon conspiracy to get one of them elected so they can turn the country towards new zionism? You do realize that the president doesn't pass laws right? If he proposes some "crazy mormon idea" then the liberals and the conservatives are just going to strike it down and he's going to look like an idiot. (Because a majority of them are protestant/catholic, and they don't want to alienate their bases.)
On April 22 2012 01:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
He's a grown man, who makes his own decisions, and he chooses to be a prominent member of an organization that I find immoral, for the reasons I stated earlier.
So you care more about a persons religious preference then their policies or ideas? I'm sorry but that just sounds like a really weak excuse.
You're ignoring me, but I'll say it again. Mitt Romney chooses to lead his life as an active and prominent member of the LDS church. I believe the LDS church is immoral, and I believe its immoral to be an active and willing supporter of what they do. I believe his stance on issues will reflect those of the LDS church. Therefore, I don't want him to be president. What issues you ask? -Immigration -Women's choice -Gay marriage There's a start to the list.
I don't understand your point. It's not like Romney publicly expresses the right views on these issues with you suspecting that that is just a ploy to disguise his real, Mormon positions. He is open about exactly where he stands on them, and it is roughly the same place as most of the rest of his party (if not slightly better). So why do you even have to consider his Mormonism instead of just looking directly to his views? |
| | "that's a load of fashionable, banal, neo-pagan yuppie bullshit" RIP |
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| mynameisgreat11 April 22 2012 03:02. Posts 599 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 03:00 frogrubdown wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:20 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:08 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:56 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
On April 22 2012 01:45 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
No, I just think that anyone faithful to mormonism has serious problems making logical decisions and seriously impaired judgment. Thus I don't want that person to become the most powerful man in the world. Make sense now?
Can you provide examples of his bad decisions and impaired judgement? Because that's what I'm asking. If he really does these things then you should be listing them and explaining why they are bad. Instead you're just tying in Mormonism as illogical, without showing how Romney has been illogical, or how Mormonism has lead him to those actions.
No I can't. I'm afraid for what's to come, because every candidate makes sure that people like him before the vote, that doesn't stop them from doing retarded things once elected (hi bush). Thus: I distrust him because in my experience any person belonging to something as weird as mormonism (and I know quite a few) to be lacking a couple of marbles. edit: on second thought, there are a couple of things where I facepalmed IRL, but I can't really remember what they were. If I find them I'll post them here.
Why didn't he do things when he was Governor of Massachusetts then? Or is this some mass mormon conspiracy to get one of them elected so they can turn the country towards new zionism? You do realize that the president doesn't pass laws right? If he proposes some "crazy mormon idea" then the liberals and the conservatives are just going to strike it down and he's going to look like an idiot. (Because a majority of them are protestant/catholic, and they don't want to alienate their bases.)
On April 22 2012 01:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
He's a grown man, who makes his own decisions, and he chooses to be a prominent member of an organization that I find immoral, for the reasons I stated earlier.
So you care more about a persons religious preference then their policies or ideas? I'm sorry but that just sounds like a really weak excuse.
You're ignoring me, but I'll say it again. Mitt Romney chooses to lead his life as an active and prominent member of the LDS church. I believe the LDS church is immoral, and I believe its immoral to be an active and willing supporter of what they do. I believe his stance on issues will reflect those of the LDS church. Therefore, I don't want him to be president. What issues you ask? -Immigration -Women's choice -Gay marriage There's a start to the list.
I don't understand your point. It's not like Romney publicly expresses the right views on these issues with you suspecting that that is just a ploy to disguise his real, Mormon positions. He is open about exactly where he stands on them, and it is roughly the same place as most of the rest of his party (if not slightly better). So why do you even have to consider his Mormonism instead of just looking directly to his views?
He was raised and is active in a community of people whose beliefs I find offensive. Just because other republicans hold similar views, and are not mormon, doesn't make me feel any different about him.Last edit: 2012-04-22 03:03:01 |
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| koreasilver Canada. April 22 2012 03:08. Posts 7514 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 02:45 Etrnity wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
When Christ speaks of the poor and the young, never does he qualify his statement by saying "only the chosen". Jesus gave the bread both to the "children" and the "dogs". If the final hand of justice truly is at the hand of God, then you too, then are in no position to judge those outside of the church. That right is in God alone.
Futhermore, if philosophy and theology are to be separate, as both the neo-orthodoxy and the philosophers have argued for, then there is always to be a secular space so that deference can be given to both. What both the fundamentalists and the liberal Protestants don't seem to understand is that the separation is necessary for both.
edit: I don't even understand the point of your entire post as a reply to mine. Liberation theology is still rooted within a Christian context. Last edit: 2012-04-22 03:10:40 |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt |
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| frogrubdown April 22 2012 03:10. Posts 992 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 03:02 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 03:00 frogrubdown wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:20 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:08 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:56 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:
I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
[quote]
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
On April 22 2012 01:45 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:
I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
[quote]
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
No, I just think that anyone faithful to mormonism has serious problems making logical decisions and seriously impaired judgment. Thus I don't want that person to become the most powerful man in the world. Make sense now?
Can you provide examples of his bad decisions and impaired judgement? Because that's what I'm asking. If he really does these things then you should be listing them and explaining why they are bad. Instead you're just tying in Mormonism as illogical, without showing how Romney has been illogical, or how Mormonism has lead him to those actions.
No I can't. I'm afraid for what's to come, because every candidate makes sure that people like him before the vote, that doesn't stop them from doing retarded things once elected (hi bush). Thus: I distrust him because in my experience any person belonging to something as weird as mormonism (and I know quite a few) to be lacking a couple of marbles. edit: on second thought, there are a couple of things where I facepalmed IRL, but I can't really remember what they were. If I find them I'll post them here.
Why didn't he do things when he was Governor of Massachusetts then? Or is this some mass mormon conspiracy to get one of them elected so they can turn the country towards new zionism? You do realize that the president doesn't pass laws right? If he proposes some "crazy mormon idea" then the liberals and the conservatives are just going to strike it down and he's going to look like an idiot. (Because a majority of them are protestant/catholic, and they don't want to alienate their bases.)
On April 22 2012 01:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:
I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
[quote]
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
He's a grown man, who makes his own decisions, and he chooses to be a prominent member of an organization that I find immoral, for the reasons I stated earlier.
So you care more about a persons religious preference then their policies or ideas? I'm sorry but that just sounds like a really weak excuse.
You're ignoring me, but I'll say it again. Mitt Romney chooses to lead his life as an active and prominent member of the LDS church. I believe the LDS church is immoral, and I believe its immoral to be an active and willing supporter of what they do. I believe his stance on issues will reflect those of the LDS church. Therefore, I don't want him to be president. What issues you ask? -Immigration -Women's choice -Gay marriage There's a start to the list.
I don't understand your point. It's not like Romney publicly expresses the right views on these issues with you suspecting that that is just a ploy to disguise his real, Mormon positions. He is open about exactly where he stands on them, and it is roughly the same place as most of the rest of his party (if not slightly better). So why do you even have to consider his Mormonism instead of just looking directly to his views?
He was raised and is active in a community of people whose beliefs I find offensive. Just because other republicans hold similar views, and are not mormon, doesn't make me feel any different about him.
Nothing I said was supposed to change your opinion about Romney. I'm just saying that his being a Mormon gives you no additional information on how detestable his views are on the issues you care about because he openly expresses views that are detestable in that area and they are the views you would expect any Republican to hold. Knowing he is a Mormon shouldn't add anything to your confidence that he holds detestable views, because you already know what those exact views are. |
| | "that's a load of fashionable, banal, neo-pagan yuppie bullshit" RIP |
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| Velocirapture United States. April 22 2012 03:14. Posts 616 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 03:00 frogrubdown wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:20 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:08 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:56 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
On April 22 2012 01:45 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
No, I just think that anyone faithful to mormonism has serious problems making logical decisions and seriously impaired judgment. Thus I don't want that person to become the most powerful man in the world. Make sense now?
Can you provide examples of his bad decisions and impaired judgement? Because that's what I'm asking. If he really does these things then you should be listing them and explaining why they are bad. Instead you're just tying in Mormonism as illogical, without showing how Romney has been illogical, or how Mormonism has lead him to those actions.
No I can't. I'm afraid for what's to come, because every candidate makes sure that people like him before the vote, that doesn't stop them from doing retarded things once elected (hi bush). Thus: I distrust him because in my experience any person belonging to something as weird as mormonism (and I know quite a few) to be lacking a couple of marbles. edit: on second thought, there are a couple of things where I facepalmed IRL, but I can't really remember what they were. If I find them I'll post them here.
Why didn't he do things when he was Governor of Massachusetts then? Or is this some mass mormon conspiracy to get one of them elected so they can turn the country towards new zionism? You do realize that the president doesn't pass laws right? If he proposes some "crazy mormon idea" then the liberals and the conservatives are just going to strike it down and he's going to look like an idiot. (Because a majority of them are protestant/catholic, and they don't want to alienate their bases.)
On April 22 2012 01:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
He's a grown man, who makes his own decisions, and he chooses to be a prominent member of an organization that I find immoral, for the reasons I stated earlier.
So you care more about a persons religious preference then their policies or ideas? I'm sorry but that just sounds like a really weak excuse.
You're ignoring me, but I'll say it again. Mitt Romney chooses to lead his life as an active and prominent member of the LDS church. I believe the LDS church is immoral, and I believe its immoral to be an active and willing supporter of what they do. I believe his stance on issues will reflect those of the LDS church. Therefore, I don't want him to be president. What issues you ask? -Immigration -Women's choice -Gay marriage There's a start to the list.
I don't understand your point. It's not like Romney publicly expresses the right views on these issues with you suspecting that that is just a ploy to disguise his real, Mormon positions. He is open about exactly where he stands on them, and it is roughly the same place as most of the rest of his party (if not slightly better). So why do you even have to consider his Mormonism instead of just looking directly to his views?
I think both sides of this argument are talking about different things. People who feel it isnt an issue are basically saying that his relationship to God is irrelevant since it has not shown up excessively in his policies. People who are saying it is an issue are not talking about that relationship at all but instead about his relationship with other Mormons who are known as largely invested in a literal interpretation of scripture and ecclesiastic hierarchy.
Basically the real question is, do personal associations matter?
Last edit: 2012-04-22 03:15:23 |
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| mynameisgreat11 April 22 2012 03:16. Posts 599 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 03:10 frogrubdown wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 03:02 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 03:00 frogrubdown wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:20 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:08 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:56 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
[quote]
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades.
Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
On April 22 2012 01:45 Zoesan wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
[quote]
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades.
Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
No, I just think that anyone faithful to mormonism has serious problems making logical decisions and seriously impaired judgment. Thus I don't want that person to become the most powerful man in the world. Make sense now?
Can you provide examples of his bad decisions and impaired judgement? Because that's what I'm asking. If he really does these things then you should be listing them and explaining why they are bad. Instead you're just tying in Mormonism as illogical, without showing how Romney has been illogical, or how Mormonism has lead him to those actions.
No I can't. I'm afraid for what's to come, because every candidate makes sure that people like him before the vote, that doesn't stop them from doing retarded things once elected (hi bush). Thus: I distrust him because in my experience any person belonging to something as weird as mormonism (and I know quite a few) to be lacking a couple of marbles. edit: on second thought, there are a couple of things where I facepalmed IRL, but I can't really remember what they were. If I find them I'll post them here.
Why didn't he do things when he was Governor of Massachusetts then? Or is this some mass mormon conspiracy to get one of them elected so they can turn the country towards new zionism? You do realize that the president doesn't pass laws right? If he proposes some "crazy mormon idea" then the liberals and the conservatives are just going to strike it down and he's going to look like an idiot. (Because a majority of them are protestant/catholic, and they don't want to alienate their bases.)
On April 22 2012 01:49 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:45 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
[quote]
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades.
Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
And has Romney said that blacks and women cannot hold positions of power? Is Romney married to a 13 year old? No he's not. The only one of these you could make a legitimate claim about is him being against gay marriage, (I don't think he donated specifically to block Prop 8 though), and that's fine...but wait...Obama is also against gay marriage.
He's a grown man, who makes his own decisions, and he chooses to be a prominent member of an organization that I find immoral, for the reasons I stated earlier.
So you care more about a persons religious preference then their policies or ideas? I'm sorry but that just sounds like a really weak excuse.
You're ignoring me, but I'll say it again. Mitt Romney chooses to lead his life as an active and prominent member of the LDS church. I believe the LDS church is immoral, and I believe its immoral to be an active and willing supporter of what they do. I believe his stance on issues will reflect those of the LDS church. Therefore, I don't want him to be president. What issues you ask? -Immigration -Women's choice -Gay marriage There's a start to the list.
I don't understand your point. It's not like Romney publicly expresses the right views on these issues with you suspecting that that is just a ploy to disguise his real, Mormon positions. He is open about exactly where he stands on them, and it is roughly the same place as most of the rest of his party (if not slightly better). So why do you even have to consider his Mormonism instead of just looking directly to his views?
He was raised and is active in a community of people whose beliefs I find offensive. Just because other republicans hold similar views, and are not mormon, doesn't make me feel any different about him.
Nothing I said was supposed to change your opinion about Romney. I'm just saying that his being a Mormon gives you no additional information on how detestable his views are on the issues you care about because he openly expresses views that are detestable in that area and they are the views you would expect any Republican to hold. Knowing he is a Mormon shouldn't add anything to your confidence that he holds detestable views, because you already know what those exact views are.
You're right, Romney's stance on key issues and his LDS faith are two separate reasons to not vote for him.
This got started when myself and several others said something to the tune of, "If he believes what mormons believe, than he is bat shit crazy. I don't want a bat shit crazy guy for president." Then somebody said that Obama is christian and therefore crazy too. And then somebody said....
It doesn't matter though, we're all just here to vent and get shit off our chest. Nobody is going to change their mind, and everybody is going to get defensive. I just have a thing where I think Mormon's are totally off their rocker and I never thought, in a million years, that one could potentially become president. |
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| storkfan April 22 2012 03:33. Posts 425 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:30 PlaGuE_R wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 18:24 murphs wrote:
Dear America,
Vote Obama.
Sincerely,
Rest of the fucking world.
Agreed, from France
Dear murphs and Plague,
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
Sincerely,
America. |
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| Demonhunter04 April 22 2012 04:29. Posts 1482 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:51 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:45 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
There. Proof that God loves everybody. Unless you're not Christian.
lol "proof"?
Anyway, it's sad that being a nonbeliever is worse for you politically than pretty much anything else. |
| | "If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA |
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| Zoesan Switzerland. April 22 2012 05:35. Posts 140 | Profile # |
| I think his comment was facetious |
| | Suffer the pain of discipline or suffer the pain of regret |
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| Etrnity United States. April 22 2012 06:00. Posts 88 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 02:51 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:45 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
I don't believe anyone could do these things, along with the things I mentioned earlier (tithing, baptism) without actually having faith.
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
There. Proof that God loves everybody. Unless you're not Christian.
You clearly don't understand what God's love means. He clearly states that he loves all, Beloved and sinners (we are all sinners). He does not call his Beloved to give aid to those that turn their hearts away. Stop being an idiot.
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| tso United States. April 22 2012 06:03. Posts 132 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 06:00 Etrnity wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:51 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:45 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:40 koreasilver wrote:
On April 22 2012 02:09 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:57 Etrnity wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:39 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:31 1Eris1 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:27 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
On April 22 2012 01:20 koreasilver wrote:
I really have no opinions on Romney's "real" beliefs but a "nonbeliever" becoming a clergyman isn't as uncommon as people seem to think. In Romney's case it would surprise me even less because of his family's standings within the Mormon church.
[quote]
We are still talking about politicians, right?
In the LDS church, a 'nonbeliever' becoming a bishop is unheard of. Period. It can't happen unless you've been ordained with the melchezedek priesthood, which you get several years after getting the Aaronic priesthood. You can't be in that position without being an active and faithful member for decades. Yes, we are still talking about politicians. If you read back the last 2-3 or pages, you'll see that myself and others are concerned about having the country run by somebody who we feel has a fragile grip on reality.
Have you seen any of Romney's policies or his programs? None of them are Mormonized or anything like that. If you want to use Mormonism as an excuse not to vote for him, you need to provide some substanial reasoning; because "he's a Mormon" just makes you sound like some evangelical redneck.
The mormon church is homophobic, sexist, and racist. I believe Romney will carry these traits to the presidency. Homophobia - The LDS church donates millions in support of California's prop 8, an anti-gay marriage bill. Sexist - Women cannot hold the priesthood, or any position of authority in the church. The church embraced polygamy until it became clear that they could not achieve statehood, at which time the prophet had a revelation that God told him that polygamy was now bad. Joseph Smith, the church's founder, married one of his wives when she was 13. Racism - Blacks could not hold the priesthood until 1978, which also meant they couldn't be married and sealed in the temple, or ever go to the highest kingdom of heaven with the other mormons. I don't like homophobic, racist, and sexist people. I don't want one of them as our president. Mormonism is a big deal.
Obama is called a Christian, but he doesn't keep to the beliefs of the faith... So religion is always followed by a president, instead of it being just a title?....sure
If you read my posts in the last few pages, I give some examples of things an active LDS member must do in order to be considered mormon. In short, its not something you can really fake. Most Christian religions, on the other hand, are pretty easy to affiliate with with minimal effort. Like the poster above says, I believe Obama's stated religious beliefs are nothing more than a necessity to be elected. JKF could come back from the dead, but if he said he was atheist, he ain't getting elected.
Besides the fact that Obama actually has some intimate knowledge and understanding of some theologies and has some connection with liberation theology, right? His connection with Christianity is a lot stronger than what someone would do to just put an appearance. Obama is probably a more honestly practicing Christian than most of the GOP runners of the past year, and he could probably sustain an actual academic dialogue with theologians better than every GOP runner.
Christianity doesn't have to do with social justice, nor helping the poor. A thorough reading of the Bible would tell you that. Justice is a term reserved to God, not for man to engage in, and the Bible calls Christians to help other Christians, no where does it say to help non-secularists. We are to go out and let the light of the Lord shine, but not to give aid to those that turn their hearts from the Heavens.
There. Proof that God loves everybody. Unless you're not Christian.
You clearly don't understand what God's love means. He clearly states that he loves all, Beloved and sinners (we are all sinners). He does not call his Beloved to give aid to those that turn their hearts away. Stop being an idiot.
eternal torture is love
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