This was just what I need, benchmarks, being in bronze I've tried following other builds but they never or very lightly talk about the benchmarks. Been playing it against the Very Hard AI and win 9/10 games just because I have more stuff.
I'm in Bronze facing mostly Silver opponents, my goal is to get to at least Gold which requires a rather high win percentage. I haven't been to the ladder much because I'm still missing benchmarks (just under 50 SCVs, forget e-bay or am late starting gas). I'm just wondering if I'm doing the right thing by practicing building groups only against the AI until I get it down each time, should I be testing it out against humans along the way?
I'd say that either way is right in bronze league, as you see in the videos, bronze leaguers do not even nearly hit the benchmarks, so you will have alot of succes with just trying to hit them but barely missing them, though trying to get the benchmarks right every time bevor climbing up in the ladder is reasonable too. BTW you might consider praciticing against very easy AI instead of very hard because deflecting the same push over and over again shouldnt be your goal, your goal is to get the benchmarks, if you can hit them you can go on the ladder and practice it there, with the random disruptions instead of the same push.
On May 30 2012 22:39 DonkTV wrote: This was just what I need, benchmarks, being in bronze I've tried following other builds but they never or very lightly talk about the benchmarks. Been playing it against the Very Hard AI and win 9/10 games just because I have more stuff.
I'm in Bronze facing mostly Silver opponents, my goal is to get to at least Gold which requires a rather high win percentage. I haven't been to the ladder much because I'm still missing benchmarks (just under 50 SCVs, forget e-bay or am late starting gas). I'm just wondering if I'm doing the right thing by practicing building groups only against the AI until I get it down each time, should I be testing it out against humans along the way?
Well what you want to develop in starcraft is a "mental checklist." What people do is they carry on with their build, make SCV, put down buildings, etc, and for brief moments they watch what their scout is doing, or for a few seconds they micro, without losing any time on their build and not forgetting any worker or supply depot. Against easy AI you will only practice your build, but no multitasking. Play against stupid bronze league people, so that you can practice carrying on your build WHILE being attacked(in a shitty attack with few units, that will cause your opponent to forget to macro while he's attacking), or so that you can see just how far behind people in your league are. I literally A-moved out of bronze league.
Bronze leaguers will try gimmicky builds like dark templar, banelings, or cloak banshee. If you watch the replay on their end youll see that it hits 2 minutes later than it should, and the whole time that theyre controlling the units theyre banking up over a thousand minerals, because they expect their gimmick to win the game. If you can hold that while doing this build you'll feel really confident in yourself.
On May 30 2012 22:39 DonkTV wrote: This was just what I need, benchmarks, being in bronze I've tried following other builds but they never or very lightly talk about the benchmarks. Been playing it against the Very Hard AI and win 9/10 games just because I have more stuff.
I'm in Bronze facing mostly Silver opponents, my goal is to get to at least Gold which requires a rather high win percentage. I haven't been to the ladder much because I'm still missing benchmarks (just under 50 SCVs, forget e-bay or am late starting gas). I'm just wondering if I'm doing the right thing by practicing building groups only against the AI until I get it down each time, should I be testing it out against humans along the way?
Which benchmark are you playing? Judging by the "forget e-bay or am late starting gas" you do something other than bronue league benchmarks. You don't need anything but the bronze league benchmarks in order to get out of bronze. Hence the name.
You can literally a-move your way out of it with pure naked-rax marine production off of 2-bases.
If you can't handle the heat, don't jump in the fire.
On May 31 2012 01:00 MaryJoana wrote: Which benchmark are you playing? Judging by the "forget e-bay or am late starting gas" you do something other than bronue league benchmarks. You don't need anything but the bronze league benchmarks in order to get out of bronze. Hence the name.
You can literally a-move your way out of it with pure naked-rax marine production off of 2-bases.
I'm going for the benchmarks in episode five about tech and timing, both because I'm confident I can reach them and I'm aiming for a spot in Gold at least. (I've been in Silver before, placed Plat on my NA account [granted that was months ago], and Gold for 2v2). I'm playing against Very Hard AI because I want some harassment during my build so it won't go to shit when I hit the ladder.
The reason I'm saving the ladder is I really don't have the time for the 1-2 hour ladder sessions because of family. When playing AI it's no problem pausing the game and get up for 2-3 minutes. I want to make it count when I ladder
Just wondering if playing the AI like that has any downsides I should be aware of.
A game in bronze league with the gold mechanics isn't gonna last you longer than 15 real-time minutes. And even if you hit Masters benchmarks (should Filter make them at any point) will not make that go past quicker. So until you reach Gold, there is no reason to still practice against the AI... But that's just my opinion.
Edit: Also, the Very Hard AI is way superior to your average Bronze and probably even Silver Leaguer.
Last edit: 2012-05-31 01:21:24
If you can't handle the heat, don't jump in the fire.
Kronen United States. May 31 2012 08:02. Posts 196
No I'm waiting for it too, his last statement on twitter concerning the release is that one: "@Sc2WaterJam Silver zerg should be up later tonight, I got railed by the D3 release. Didn't think I'd like it but the game is a ton of fun!" Which was tweeted on May 22. Since then no real info on it, besides it not being lost due to diablo 3, so it is coming.
Just posted it up on my channel, had a couple issues recording but got everything patched up. Mouse is back on too . I don't often post if I update a video here, but with the long break figured I'd let people know it's up if they only check this thread.
Live hard, live free.
SeventhSword United States. May 31 2012 21:29. Posts 31
I check this thread everytime its bumped just so I can see if your next Zerg video is up, and now it is! Thanks again filter ;D Watching Zerg video 3 as I type ^.^
If anything is worth doing, its worth overdoing. - Mr. G. @ CCHS Delano, CA
Schaudenfraud United States. May 31 2012 21:33. Posts 38
On May 31 2012 21:33 Schaudenfraud wrote: How do you deal with early seige tank? that stuff has been rocking me a min or two after my bunker goes down. QQ
BTW i am out of bronze and now in silver thanks to your guide filter!
if you have medivacs, load a few marines and drop them directly on top of the tanks
On May 31 2012 21:33 Schaudenfraud wrote: How do you deal with early seige tank? that stuff has been rocking me a min or two after my bunker goes down. QQ
BTW i am out of bronze and now in silver thanks to your guide filter!
if you have medivacs, load a few marines and drop them directly on top of the tanks
If he is talking about 1 base early tanks you should not be able to have medivacs out by the time it hits, you need to hit him before you sieges your natural, if you control the watch tower and see the push coming, take a handful of scvs and bum rush the guy before he sieges and you will crush his force most of the time, you won't need to worry about losing the scvs as you are ahead in bases and will be able to remake the scvs you lost
Information is the best weapon to have
vulturesrow United States. June 01 2012 05:16. Posts 3
A related question: Lets say you are only doing the bronze benchmarks (so nothing but marines when you push at 10:00) and you encounter a Terran turtling hard? I _Almost_ was able to break it by throwing waves of marines at it but it didnt quite work out. Guess I shouldve just bitten the bullet and made some other units. This has happened a couple times.
On June 01 2012 05:16 vulturesrow wrote: A related question: Lets say you are only doing the bronze benchmarks (so nothing but marines when you push at 10:00) and you encounter a Terran turtling hard? I _Almost_ was able to break it by throwing waves of marines at it but it didnt quite work out. Guess I shouldve just bitten the bullet and made some other units. This has happened a couple times.
The bronze build is just an extreme example of how important macro really is, once you feel comfortable pulling it off jump to the silver level build regardless of league. The silver one is where you really start to play Starcraft.
Live hard, live free.
beat farm United States. June 01 2012 09:27. Posts 478
thanks for writting this guide up. i got the game 2 days ago(just got my laptop for college and previously did not have a computer that could run it). finally got my first legit ladder win, using the bronze guide, although i did tech my marines.
edit-i followed that first win up with a second consecutive win. although im not hitting the bench marks
second edit-up to 5 wins following this guide.
Last edit: 2012-06-01 13:37:32
fatty77 United States. June 01 2012 09:54. Posts 39
I hadn't done the bronze exercise because I considered it "below" my level lol, and I just actually went through it and it blew my mind. I got to 200 supply in 13:22 seconds, including the current production cycle of marines, so if you allow the production cycle to finish it's about 14 minutes and I have to say, WOW, I had no idea just how much I could produce off of two bases. A long time ago I heard from some pro that the rule is 3 production buildings plus some upgrades(from tech labs or e-bay) per base, so I'd always based my macro off that, and wondered why I still banked minerals anyways. Here I have 16 barracks and 22 supply depots and I'm still surplussing minerals.
Before this I had gotten out of bronze with a similar a-move build found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315507 so I was already familiar with the theory, but the guy never followed up or posted again, and I hadn't quite realized the power of expanding first over attacking early.
vulturesrow United States. June 01 2012 11:12. Posts 3
On June 01 2012 05:16 vulturesrow wrote: A related question: Lets say you are only doing the bronze benchmarks (so nothing but marines when you push at 10:00) and you encounter a Terran turtling hard? I _Almost_ was able to break it by throwing waves of marines at it but it didnt quite work out. Guess I shouldve just bitten the bullet and made some other units. This has happened a couple times.
The bronze build is just an extreme example of how important macro really is, once you feel comfortable pulling it off jump to the silver level build regardless of league. The silver one is where you really start to play Starcraft.
I thought that might be what you said actually. Thanks for all the hard work on this series. It is a godsend for a noob like me.
nick_ashwell United Kingdom. June 01 2012 20:01. Posts 1
Thanks for taking to time to produce such an excellent guide on fundamentals of game play. I have only got as far as obtaining the metrics for episode 4 so far. However these days, I have been playing since the games launch, I am finding the ladder system is not working very well. I have played against bronze league players who are better than some of the gold league players that I have played against. Not sure why this is the case, I play on the european servers so perhaps it is different on the US servers. Do you or anyone else reading this experience the same problems?
Once again thanks for your excellent guide it has certainly improved my play but so far I am just not seeing any rewards for all my hard work
. I don't often post if I update a video here, but with the long break figured I'd let people know it's up if they only check this thread.
