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| Bluelightz Indonesia. April 23 2012 20:45. Posts 2330 | Profile Blog # |
On April 23 2012 20:39 prplhz wrote:
I don't recall saying "HURR DURR" and I don't know how any of that qualifies as "speculation", but alright.
its an exaggeration.
Anyway, if you guys want my thoughts on VE, here it is
VE is town.
This is what I argue when I claim town on day 1 etc, Would scum REALLY put themselves in the spotlight like that?
Im gonna look through other filters as well. |
| | Roses Are Red, Violets Are Blue, Radiation Is Good Because Nuclear bombs go BOOM | I love TL Mafia! ♥ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 ♥| Mvp is most boss |
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| prplhz Denmark. April 23 2012 21:07. Posts 4116 | Profile Blog # |
It's not an exaggeration, it's misrepresentation. I never said anything that could remotely be interpreted as "HURR DURR" and of course I object to that rendition.
Your VisceraEyes analysis is extremely naïve. VisceraEyes has played like 30 games (at least!) and he's seen people claim town many times before, don't you think he has both the stomach and the brain to concoct and accomplish a plan as devious as claiming town when he's actually not? How do you feel about him hiding it in a spoiler then, since you're saying that he is displaying a lack of fear typical for a townie? Has Kenpachi never been scum? |
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| Forumite Sweden. April 23 2012 21:08. Posts 2938 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying "only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor. |
| | :3 - "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. April 23 2012 21:10. Posts 11816 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor.
No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here. |
| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| Forumite Sweden. April 23 2012 21:11. Posts 2938 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 20:39 prplhz wrote:
I don't recall saying "HURR DURR" and I don't know how any of that qualifies as "speculation", but alright.
prplhz is back!
Could you please have a beer, and then tell me who is scum? |
| | :3 - "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham |
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| Forumite Sweden. April 23 2012 21:15. Posts 2938 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:
On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor.
No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here.
You are right, my post wasn´t actually directed only towards you, but more to earlier defence of him. I disagree with what you are saying here though. If he is often accused of being scum because of his scummy way of playing, then him playing suspiciously here doesn´t make him Town, it just makes it harder to know if he´s Scum. It means we should look more carefully at him, not dismiss accusations because he gets accused of being scum so often. |
| | :3 - "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham |
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| strongandbig United States. April 23 2012 21:20. Posts 3325 | Profile Blog # |
| Kenpachi method? Apparently it's foolproof! |
| | I work alone. Except when I work with Kurumi, which is all the time. |
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| strongandbig United States. April 23 2012 21:26. Posts 3325 | Profile Blog # |
| Also: I'm kind of suspicious of ace's focus on game mechanics day1 given how pissed he was in the ss mafia postgame analysis about how that game was won using mechanics rather than analysis. I would have expected him to focus on analysis this game. |
| | I work alone. Except when I work with Kurumi, which is all the time. |
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| strongandbig United States. April 23 2012 21:27. Posts 3325 | Profile Blog # |
| Ebwop or wait actually that might have been bloodycobbler. I'll double check when I get back to a pc. |
| | I work alone. Except when I work with Kurumi, which is all the time. |
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| prplhz Denmark. April 23 2012 21:31. Posts 4116 | Profile Blog # |
On April 23 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:
On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor.
No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here.
Are you saying that some scenario could apply in this situation?
You're absolutely right!.. But it's a lot more interesting to discuss whether or not it actually does apply in this situation. How do you feel about MrZentor self voting allegedly just to see responses (kind of admitting it is out of character) and then when I respond to it he's says it I am just asking stupid questions, even though I am just questioning some odd post (which is what townies generally do)? |
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| prplhz Denmark. April 23 2012 21:34. Posts 4116 | Profile Blog # |
Hey guys this is a mini where Ace actually does something on day1 (and he actually succeeds pretty well with it, catching a scum).
Just so you know he's not always this non-committal with his reads on day1. |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. April 23 2012 21:38. Posts 11816 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 21:26 strongandbig wrote:
Also: I'm kind of suspicious of ace's focus on game mechanics day1 given how pissed he was in the ss mafia postgame analysis about how that game was won using mechanics rather than analysis. I would have expected him to focus on analysis this game.
I think there's a marked difference between discussing the mechanics here (blue roles, benefits of how to use) and the PM mass claim in Space Station. Two different beasts. |
| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| phagga Switzerland. April 23 2012 21:39. Posts 1079 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 20:45 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:39 prplhz wrote:
I don't recall saying "HURR DURR" and I don't know how any of that qualifies as "speculation", but alright.
its an exaggeration. Anyway, if you guys want my thoughts on VE, here it is VE is town.This is what I argue when I claim town on day 1 etc, Would scum REALLY put themselves in the spotlight like that?
Uh, my impression is that he exactly tried to avoid putting himself in the spotlight. He has 5 posts, which are a town list, 2 defensive posts about himself and zentor, a heart to rad and a post about game mechanics where he also tries to find out more about Aces possible plan(s). That's not putting yourself in the spotlight.
Actually, that last post seems a bit strange, now that I read it again. He has not activily participated in this discussion about game mechanics but suddenly seems interested in knowing how Ace would deal with the situation? When I look through his posts again, this one feels out of place in comparison to the others.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 00:08 VisceraEyes wrote:@Ace: I think it looks a lot like your Hypothetical Situation 2. The only issue I have with it is that we don't know if there's a cop OR medic present, where your HS2 was assuming an open setup. Wanna walk me through how your plan works if there are no medics/cops present Ace?
Also, he is one of the few people who is not openly supporting a mason claim.
@Radfield:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 23 2012 19:22 Radfield wrote:Marvellosity, you need to step it up. More content please. Also, if you want filters do the work and make them yourself, it takes all of 5 minutes.
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction.
This is the definition of a 'safe' post. Everything in this post is a popular opinion that has already been mentioned by someone else. It hits slightly on all the major points of this game, without going into detail on any of them. Zentor -> parroting Forumite and talking like Zentor is scum, yet not stating that explicitly nor voting for him. Visceraeyes -> following Toads lead(backed by me), and again indirectly talking as if Visceraeyes is scum(or SK), without actually saying it. Ace and Radfield -> again parroting others points and slinging a bit of mud towards two strong players, without actually calling them out. So phagga, what is your actual opinion here? You seem to think both Zentor and VE are scummy, yet are doing nothing about it. Additionally, I have responded to Shrubbles, what do you think of my response?
My problem is that I have a hard time making out something new, something that has not been said yet. There is not much content so far (which is partially my fault), and there is a lot of game mechanics talk that does not really show anything about the alignement of players, specially as pretty much everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the general concept. What exactly do you expect? That I'm going to make stuff up only for the sake of being original?
Also, You can believe me or not, but the fact that Ace was only talking about game mechanics and not trying to scum hunt crossed my mind before he was called out for this by someone else. Alas, I was too slow, so it looks like I'm parroting.
I'm still a bit undecided on who to vote on, which is way I have not voted yet. I think it is going to be VisceraEyes for now, but I want to read through Zentors filter first.
On April 23 2012 18:37 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 12:39 Sbrubbles wrote:
Radfield, you are the one looking the most suspicious to me right now. On the Zentor/prplhz exchange, you defend Zentor, but agree with Forumite on Zentor's case on prplhz being weak:
Correct. I'm not sure what you find suspicious about that. Someone making a weak case is certainly no indication of them being scum, especially when that case is made in the first half of day 1 I didn't think Zentor's case was strong, yet I also didn't see Zentor as scum. However, both of those things may change with time.
Show nested quote +
And now, you're indirectly accusing prplhz, even though there has been no case on him (besides Zentor's, which you implied was weak) and haven't made one of your own. What's up with that?
Something about prplhz is tickling my senses, though I haven't reread the game yet. I started to last night, but was too tired to focus. So now I'm up early with the intention of putting in some time before work. Prplhz is simply a bit too quiet for my liking at any rate.
Show nested quote +
Also, you were the first to offer to vote VE (without an actual explanation as to why), and waited until someone else appeared voting for him in order to actually cast your vote. Is this merely a coincidence or were you waiting for someone else to accuse and vote him in order for yourself not to stand out?
My reasons are my own for voting VE, though they will materialize in the thread before the day is out. The short version is that I've played scum with VE lately, and so far this reminds me of that game.
1 I agree with you that it's no issue.
2 So you just fling some mud into a vets direction without any hard facts?
3So you have a good reason to vote VE, but withhold because... well, you keep us in the dark why you are not telling us. why can't you tell us? Is the explanation going to be so long, are you waiting for more info?
I don't see you as scum atm. I just thought that sbrubbles actually saw two good points (the second and the third) and I wanted to point out that I share his sentiment and that I want your reaction too.
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| | "A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. April 23 2012 21:40. Posts 11816 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 21:31 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:
On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
Zentor can´t be scum, because he´s a good Town player? What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor.
No, you misunderstand me a little I think. I was saying in Space Station he played suspiciously/scummy on thread and he was town there. Similar could appply here.
Are you saying that some scenario could apply in this situation? You're absolutely right!.. But it's a lot more interesting to discuss whether or not it actually does apply in this situation. How do you feel about MrZentor self voting allegedly just to see responses (kind of admitting it is out of character) and then when I respond to it he's says it I am just asking stupid questions, even though I am just questioning some odd post (which is what townies generally do)?
For now I would say it could sound somewhat scummy, but more information is required. From what I know of Zentor I reckon it more likely that he would be belligerent/odd as town than scum. This is NOT saying he has a free pass to do stupid stuff, just opinion on what he's done so far.
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| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| Ace United States. April 23 2012 22:24. Posts 13831 | Profile Blog # |
Excuse me but can you tell me what constitutes Scum hunting since you're such an expert? I've gotten this thread going with the discussion about Masons and I've said like 5000 times I rarely give out all my reads on Day 1.
Bluelightz what Scum hunting have you done since you're so sure here?
On April 23 2012 21:08 Forumite wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:05 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think Zentor is scum atm. Instead of looking at his scum game, look at Space Station where he was town. He managed to be at the top of numerous people's suspicious list although he was town (and performing very townie actions in PM-land).
What if he´s a bad scumplayer too? He hasn´t done that many suspicious things lately, fine, I don´t have much else to complain about, but I can´t agree with those who defend him by essentially saying " only a bad player would make a stupid mistake like that". Whatever, noone cares about Zentor.
Maybe the people defending him are Scum. If Zentor is Town it would be an easy way to buddy up to him for later with the "look, I knew you were innocent from Day 1 when I defended you" behavior. The logic is pretty bad and if that is the staple being used then by extension I shouldn't be accused by anyone making that leap.
But what we all know that makes too much sense don't we?
On April 23 2012 21:26 strongandbig wrote:
Also: I'm kind of suspicious of ace's focus on game mechanics day1 given how pissed he was in the ss mafia postgame analysis about how that game was won using mechanics rather than analysis. I would have expected him to focus on analysis this game.
SS Mafia wasn't won using game mechanics. It was a bunch of players trying to confirm each other based on the way PMs are worded. That isn't using the game mechanics at all.
If you've read any of the oh I don't know 20 or so games I've played here, or the numerous topics about advice and guides I've written I always advocate breaking the game using the mechanics. I speculate on setups in many games I play. Just because I haven't made a bunch of accusations doesn't mean I don't or won't analyze players.
On April 23 2012 21:34 prplhz wrote:Hey guys this is a mini where Ace actually does something on day1 (and he actually succeeds pretty well with it, catching a scum). Just so you know he's not always this non-committal with his reads on day1.
True. But the amount of content in that game and the obvious nature of the Palmar's scummy behavior that game led to me calling him out. You can also go back and find games where I've just relaxed the first few days giving no Scum reads and showing up later to get the party started. Posting 1 game out of the many I've played as some sort of proof is just ridiculously stupid don't you think? I feel like your trying to force something that isn't there. Last edit: 2012-04-23 22:37:31 |
| | Scumteams tend to be roughly as good as their best member, towns tend to be roughly as good as the worst player who isn't actively detrimental. -The Fonz- Mafiascum.net |
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| Ace United States. April 23 2012 22:38. Posts 13831 | Profile Blog # |
| oh fuck edited by accident. I didn't delete anything but the part where I quoted Forumite should be the second post. |
| | Scumteams tend to be roughly as good as their best member, towns tend to be roughly as good as the worst player who isn't actively detrimental. -The Fonz- Mafiascum.net |
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 GMarshal United States. April 23 2012 22:40. Posts 20904 | Profile Blog # |
| I can confirm, nothing was removed ^_^ |
| | "life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" The measure of a terrible day is when you go to bed thinking "man, I wish the zombie apocalypse would start already" | |
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| phagga Switzerland. April 23 2012 22:47. Posts 1079 | Profile # |
| Same here, I saw both posts and nothing was removed. |
| | "A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." |
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| strongandbig United States. April 23 2012 22:48. Posts 3325 | Profile Blog # |
Yeah I can also confirm that noting was deleted, I read the post and the edited version within 20 seconds of each other (my iPhone still had the old version until I reloaded the page.)
Still I would lol so hard if wbg had to modkill ace after the /in for this game.
@ace, I was wrong about your stance in ss mafia re mechanics. I lumped you and BC together as "douchy vet" and got your stances on that game confused. My bad.
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| | I work alone. Except when I work with Kurumi, which is all the time. |
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| Ace United States. April 23 2012 22:50. Posts 13831 | Profile Blog # |
BC is a douche though, thats why I love him  |
| | Scumteams tend to be roughly as good as their best member, towns tend to be roughly as good as the worst player who isn't actively detrimental. -The Fonz- Mafiascum.net |
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