| Geegeez Canada. April 23 2012 01:20. Posts 226 | Profile Blog # | |
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| frogrubdown April 23 2012 01:22. Posts 992 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 23:47 VenerableSpace wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 23:06 Willzzz wrote:
On April 22 2012 22:48 trinxified wrote:
This might've been asked already but can't seem to find the answer...
Why is DRG taking the last 6th spot instead of Parting? Parting beat him with their matches
Good question.. same match score, same map score, but Parting won the head to head.. hmm
Can someone please clarify as to what happened here.
Tiebreak: H2H Match Win% -> H2H Map Win% -> Overall Map Win% |
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| MONXY FIST United States. April 23 2012 01:22. Posts 142 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 23:55 Siphyo wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 15:42 jmbthirteen wrote:
map score isn't the first way of ranking the players. Its series records. Heart, DRG and Parting all went 3-4. Hence the 3 way tie. Then it goes h2h (MLG rules). DRG beat Heart, Parting beat DRG, Heart beat Parting. So h2h doesn't determine the tie break. Per MLG rules, the next tie breaker is the map score of each player among games vs each other. Heart went 4-2 against DRG and Parting. DRG went 3-3 against Heart and Parting. Parting went 2-4 against Heart and DRG. Therefore, Heart and DRG finish 5th and 6th respectively.
And you don't go map score first because a player can go 14-7 and win every series (7-0) while another guy can go 10-4 and and lose 2 series (5-2). Technically the 10-4 record is better going just off map score. But that guy never should be first in the group over the guy who went 7-0
I don't really get how you go on to defend a weird decision to decide ranking made by MLG by explaining how an even stranger way to decide on it (map score over series score, wtf?) makes no sense. Besides, your example does not even fit the tournament at hand, because the possible scores for a series are 2-1 or 3-0 rather than 2-1 or 2-0. So when we adjust this in your example, it becomes 14-7 (worst possible 7-0 score) against 17-4 (best possible 5-2 score), making the second obviously better when looking at map scores. I don't see how 10-4 (+6) would be better than 14-7 (+7) either by the way. When looking at series score > map score between (3) tied players you get weird results like this, where you would expect series score > map score > map score between (2) tied players. Did DRG really deserve to go through over Parting because his 3-0 loss was against MC (rank 4) instead of against Heart (rank 5)? Apparently MLG believes so. MLG also believes people like watching a tournament with HuK and 7 random koreans over the old MLG setup.
There not random koreans, there some of the best koreans in the scene right now. There also among to most popular Koreans with the exception of Heart and Ganzi. Also they qualified for this tournament as well so its not like MLG invited random people. I don't follow the European scene all that much and while i recognize a a lot of people in Dreamahck i do not know most of them and to me the tournament is a couple koreans, a couple top level foreigners and a bunch of random europeans. However these europeans are no doubt not random it is simply my own ignorance of that particular scene not a fault of Dreamhack. Similar to your own ignorance of the Korean Scene and your idea that people don't like watching Koreans. Alot of people like to watch Koreans including myself. Also this idea that you can't relate to korean players baffles my mind if you cant relate to a player like MC or MKP then there is clearly something wrong with you. |
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| babysimba April 23 2012 01:29. Posts 810 | Profile # |
I guess the amt. of clash in views is that starcraft was never meant to be played in round robin style. By convention, winning by series (head-to-head) is the most important. Nobody cares much about map score. That's also why korean tournaments have been using dual elimination style in group play. Preparing to give up certain games by using risky/unorthodox strats to throw off opponent is also an art of this game.
I believe there's no clear black and white here. The most important thing is that tournament organizers need to lay down all the rules clearly beforehand. |
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| below66 United States. April 23 2012 01:33. Posts 1344 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 01:09 ThomasR wrote:
where's today's thread for this event
Should probably start up within the next hour. Today starts at 2pm again right?(in 1h 30mins from now) |
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| ensign_lee United States. April 23 2012 01:33. Posts 1021 | Profile # |
OH GOD HAHAHA. That 2v2 tournament was Fing hilarious!!!
I *loved* it!
Have to say that so far, it's been the highlight of the tournament hahaha. I loved the trash talkinga nd victory celebtrations. hehe. Nice. |
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| Youtakenocandle April 23 2012 01:39. Posts 540 | Profile # | |
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| Amornthep Singapore. April 23 2012 01:42. Posts 1939 | Profile Blog # |
| Just watched the 2v2 tournament. Was very entertaining with the bm and all, hope to see more of it next time. |
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| Durp Canada. April 23 2012 02:18. Posts 2851 | Profile Blog # |
| So MLG released Parting vs Violet game3 from Day 2 for everyone to see. They claim it was an amazing match, but I didn't catch it. Is it worth the watch? |
| | SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!! |  |
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| figq April 23 2012 02:28. Posts 10064 | Profile Blog # |
On April 23 2012 01:29 babysimba wrote:
I guess the amt. of clash in views is that starcraft was never meant to be played in round robin style. By convention, winning by series (head-to-head) is the most important. Nobody cares much about map score. That's also why korean tournaments have been using dual elimination style in group play. Preparing to give up certain games by using risky/unorthodox strats to throw off opponent is also an art of this game.
I believe there's no clear black and white here. The most important thing is that tournament organizers need to lay down all the rules clearly beforehand.
Agreed with these arguments, I was just hoping at least this event would be truly round robin, based on total score against everyone, instead of the usual h2h preference sneaking in again. IMO, the h2h should have been applied only if all other stats were equal, including total map score.Last edit: 2012-04-23 02:32:34 |
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| iAmBiGbiRd Australia. April 23 2012 02:29. Posts 1012 | Profile # |
Lol wrong thread
Last edit: 2012-04-23 02:29:53 |
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 L3g3nd_ New Zealand. April 23 2012 02:31. Posts 9595 | Profile # |
| DRG v MC please ! : D GOGO MC |
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| Durp Canada. April 23 2012 02:47. Posts 2851 | Profile Blog # |
On April 23 2012 02:18 Durp wrote:
So MLG released Parting vs Violet game3 from Day 2 for everyone to see. They claim it was an amazing match, but I didn't catch it. Is it worth the watch?
I watched this game, and feel it's worth noting for everyone in the OP that this game was amazing and was released for free. Everyone should watch it.
+ Show Spoiler +35 minutes base race that went down to the wire, amazing back and forth game |
| | SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!! | |
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| IMNasty April 23 2012 02:55. Posts 654 | Profile # |
On April 23 2012 02:18 Durp wrote:
So MLG released Parting vs Violet game3 from Day 2 for everyone to see. They claim it was an amazing match, but I didn't catch it. Is it worth the watch?
yes |
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| jmbthirteen United States. April 23 2012 03:04. Posts 9647 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 23:55 Siphyo wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 15:42 jmbthirteen wrote:
map score isn't the first way of ranking the players. Its series records. Heart, DRG and Parting all went 3-4. Hence the 3 way tie. Then it goes h2h (MLG rules). DRG beat Heart, Parting beat DRG, Heart beat Parting. So h2h doesn't determine the tie break. Per MLG rules, the next tie breaker is the map score of each player among games vs each other. Heart went 4-2 against DRG and Parting. DRG went 3-3 against Heart and Parting. Parting went 2-4 against Heart and DRG. Therefore, Heart and DRG finish 5th and 6th respectively.
And you don't go map score first because a player can go 14-7 and win every series (7-0) while another guy can go 10-4 and and lose 2 series (5-2). Technically the 10-4 record is better going just off map score. But that guy never should be first in the group over the guy who went 7-0
I don't really get how you go on to defend a weird decision to decide ranking made by MLG by explaining how an even stranger way to decide on it (map score over series score, wtf?) makes no sense. Besides, your example does not even fit the tournament at hand, because the possible scores for a series are 2-1 or 3-0 rather than 2-1 or 2-0. So when we adjust this in your example, it becomes 14-7 (worst possible 7-0 score) against 17-4 (best possible 5-2 score), making the second obviously better when looking at map scores. I don't see how 10-4 (+6) would be better than 14-7 (+7) either by the way. When looking at series score > map score between (3) tied players you get weird results like this, where you would expect series score > map score > map score between (2) tied players. Did DRG really deserve to go through over Parting because his 3-0 loss was against MC (rank 4) instead of against Heart (rank 5)? Apparently MLG believes so. MLG also believes people like watching a tournament with HuK and 7 random koreans over the old MLG setup.
The only thing I defended on MLG's decision is to go by series score over map score first, which every tournament does btw. I've said multiple times that I think MLG screwed it up with these rules. The whole first part of my post was just explaining how MLG did it.
I don't think you understand what I posted. I was saying you can't go map score over series score (which another poster said they should). And 10-4 is better % wise than 14-7. I was just explaining that map score first just doesnt make sense because you can have a player who lost series end up with a better map score than a player who didnt.
And MLG doesn't believe people like watching a tournament with Huk and 7 random koreans over the old MLG set up. They believe that peope like watch 8 of the best players in the world duke it out over a weekend IN ADDITION to the old MLG set up.
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| Gool Argentina. April 23 2012 04:43. Posts 191 | Profile # |
| Does anyone else feels like MC threw the games vs DRG? |
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