| Decendos Germany. April 22 2012 06:38. Posts 912 | Profile # |
| doesnt toss have 2 sentries at that time? or is this just a metagame thing vs zealot stalker stalker pressure (vs which this build is an instawin i think ;-)) |
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| TangSC Canada. April 22 2012 06:46. Posts 1607 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 06:38 Decendos wrote:
doesnt toss have 2 sentries at that time? or is this just a metagame thing vs zealot stalker stalker pressure (vs which this build is an instawin i think ;-))
Well so many players chrono-boost out zealots now to pressure the 3rd.
Fewer and fewer are going straight Zealot --> Sentry --> SentryLast edit: 2012-04-22 07:22:40 |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration.com | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| qwertyindeed April 22 2012 06:48. Posts 146 | Profile # |
http://drop.sc/164768
with hatch 1st on shakuras- which is better-
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http://drop.sc/164767
executed better then 1st-note:always take your 1st gas away form ramp since the probe may get in ur main and u need to hit it with ur queen near ur ramp.
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http://drop.sc/164766
he makes like 4 cannons for some reason-it doesnt help-best execution of the 3, blings ready by 8min
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all 3 cases there was like 2-3 setnries but toss has like a split second to react so u will have a better chance with this then 5blings since u will take down forge and the 2 pylons powering the large ramps on those maps
Note:dont make more lings at around the 45-55 supply even if u have the money- u want the minerals and gas to match when morphing the blings, after moprhing, take the 6 off gas and continue to the more lings
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| Sspinner United States. April 22 2012 06:53. Posts 26 | Profile # |
| is this really better than hitting with 8 roaches and the same amount of speedlings 1 minute later? |
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| CrazyF1r3f0x United States. April 22 2012 06:59. Posts 1729 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 06:53 Sspinner wrote:
is this really better than hitting with 8 roaches and the same amount of speedlings 1 minute later?
Yes because this build looks like a standard 3 hatch, whilst a roach-ling all-in is much easier to scout. |
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| Fliparoni April 22 2012 07:04. Posts 100 | Profile # |
| Excellent guide. I was beginning to get bored of massing roaches in ZvP so this is something that I definitely want to try out. Thanks, Tang! |
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| Oboeman Canada. April 22 2012 07:06. Posts 3376 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 06:59 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 06:53 Sspinner wrote:
is this really better than hitting with 8 roaches and the same amount of speedlings 1 minute later?
Yes because this build looks like a standard 3 hatch, whilst a roach-ling all-in is much easier to scout.
You can also do roach-ling all-in with the 3rd hatch and only one queen, but it is weaker because you need the money for the roaches earlier than you would need the money for the banelings. Hitting a full minute later can be potentially disastrous because warpgate will be complete, but you'll still kill him if he played overly greedy.
The 3 hatch baneling bust is brutal. It's all-in and it's cheese. It's mostly blind. I have on rare rare occasions cancelled my 2nd queen and double gassed in response to scouting a very weak wall, but normally you have to commit to it before seeing anything.
It's a great build for keeping people honest. You'll notice that when zenio does this, his opponent always builds a few more cannons against him next time they play, just in case. |
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| TangSC Canada. April 22 2012 07:11. Posts 1607 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 06:53 Sspinner wrote:
is this really better than hitting with 8 roaches and the same amount of speedlings 1 minute later?
I would argue yes, because it's not necessarily about maximizing the amount of units you have. The build is designed to take advantage of the window before Warp Gate completes. |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration.com | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| NoisyNinja United States. April 22 2012 07:41. Posts 982 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 05:28 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
You really need to leran how to play man.
You need to learn how to spell. His guides are based off of successful pros. If you can do better than these pros, then you have the right to verbally destroy this guide. Otherwise, you can use the guide to learn the build and also how to scout and counter the build. |
| | The world can go fuck itself. I'm not taking out my headphones. |
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| CrazyF1r3f0x United States. April 22 2012 07:45. Posts 1729 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 07:41 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 05:28 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
You really need to leran how to play man.
You need to learn how to spell. His guides are based off of successful pros. If you can do better than these pros, then you have the right to verbally destroy this guide. Otherwise, you can use the guide to learn the build and also how to scout and counter the build.
Oh come on >_>
You guys need to watch the replay before attacking me T_T
It was something his opponent said, I was just making fun of him.
Jesus
EDIT: 4 posts away from 1k!!Last edit: 2012-04-22 07:46:26 |
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| Mario1209 United States. April 22 2012 08:13. Posts 1076 | Profile # |
| thanks for another awesome guide tang! |
| | Co-Manager of Soviet Gaming * http://twitter.com/#!/sGMarioo * http://www.facebook.com/SovietGamingfanpage * https://twitter.com/#!/SovietGaming | |
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| FairForever Canada. April 22 2012 08:23. Posts 2186 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 06:26 qwertyindeed wrote:
i play with this alot, i like GLsnutes variation much better though, u get gas at 21 and second gas around 32 supply
u end up morphing like 20blings, its just as hard to scout ,
if u see aggressive scouting u can still keep a drone at 3rd and make hatch, then cancel it when scouts gone.
with that many blings u can destroy forge and gateway too with good positioning
i have several replays of it if anyone's interested
Have to agree with this, I'm a much bigger fan of the 2gas version.
The 1gas version really gives you one go at it. If you don't break through you're kind of screwed. I didn't watch the replay but in those pictures you have you do not have enough banelings if your opponent had walled with all gateways/forge, which is instant GG.
Nerchio did this build recently (same as Zenio version) and got absolutely slaughtered when he walked in with banes and realized he could only hit the forge, cyber core or gateway. He couldn't even take down the wall.
2gas version I like a lot more - you trade some lings for some banes, but banes are a lot more useful if you're going to all-in anyway
EDIT: I remember seeing Sen do it to InControl once (I think NASL Season 2? Can't remember) using 2gas as well. But he did a 2base version though.Last edit: 2012-04-22 08:26:47 |
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| TangSC Canada. April 22 2012 09:19. Posts 1607 | Profile Blog # |
On April 22 2012 08:23 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 06:26 qwertyindeed wrote:
i play with this alot, i like GLsnutes variation much better though, u get gas at 21 and second gas around 32 supply
u end up morphing like 20blings, its just as hard to scout ,
if u see aggressive scouting u can still keep a drone at 3rd and make hatch, then cancel it when scouts gone.
with that many blings u can destroy forge and gateway too with good positioning
i have several replays of it if anyone's interested
Have to agree with this, I'm a much bigger fan of the 2gas version. The 1gas version really gives you one go at it. If you don't break through you're kind of screwed. I didn't watch the replay but in those pictures you have you do not have enough banelings if your opponent had walled with all gateways/forge, which is instant GG.
I'd have to see more replays of the 2gas version, I'm not too familiar with the specifics of the tradeoff.
However, in the game Zenio played against Naniwa, Zenio went right for the forge with 5-6 banes then finished it off with Zerglings in a matter of seconds. Also, he continued to morph a few banes at a time, but you never get to 8+ banes to actually bust right through a larger building - it's definitely more zergling-centric. |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration.com | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| AGIANTSMURF United States. April 22 2012 09:31. Posts 1206 | Profile Blog # |
| this is actually really really really scary |
| | Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you..... |
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| qwertyindeed April 22 2012 09:42. Posts 146 | Profile # |
On April 22 2012 09:31 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
this is actually really really really scary
20bligns at 8min mark  at most they will get 1 warpin of zealots off 4-5 gateways after u get in |
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| NoMicroWin United States. April 22 2012 09:53. Posts 590 | Profile Blog # |
back to gateway expanding >.<
No, not really. This is gunna be incredibly hard to scout, and SG isn't as good vs this as it is vs Roach ling opener. Oh what to do. |
| | If she pulls out her stalkers, you pull out your mauraders and concussive all over her tits |
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| oOOoOphidian United States. April 22 2012 10:18. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
| This is a b/o win against stuff like 8 gate where they play super greedy until they are ready to hit a timing. It's not as good against 4 gate +1 zealot or sentry into 3rd base builds, though. |
| | http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian |
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| Mahtasooma Germany. April 22 2012 10:28. Posts 374 | Profile # |
I always open 11 Overpool into three hatch to punish really greedyy tosses, and I camp their ramp with the lings if I don't get in to actually prevent them from knowing what I do, because they don't even see my nat with the overpool. However, I might just as well pull back to the ramp of my nat with the lings to prevent them scouting my nat, but letting them scout the third, producing all other lings in my main until the last moment.
However, seeing your replays, your Banenest seems to be too early, you could be mining with that drone for at least 20 more seconds because you never build the lings when your Nest pops, especially since ling speed is at least 20sec away. |
| | http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma |
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| BenBuford Denmark. April 22 2012 10:30. Posts 302 | Profile Blog # |
"GG that's how too play!"  |
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| Nezi April 22 2012 11:11. Posts 59 | Profile # |
| Although maps are moving away from small chokes at the natural, how would this work on a map like Shakuras where you can do a forge/gate/cyber wall off, with no pylons or space in the wall? Do you break down the forge with the banes and hope the lings finish it off? |
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