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 XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 02:27. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
While I think some credit needs to be given to the Mavs' defense, which is still quite good this season, I agree with those who have misgivings about OKC's offense. The team relies too much on Durant and Westbrook, neither of whom scores all that efficiently outside of getting to the FT line. Durant is a jumpshooter for the most part, Westbrook is often turned into a jumpshooter since teams play off of him to cut off his drive, and neither one of them has a postgame. Harden is pretty much a shorter Durant with better playmaking abilities. As a result, their offense can really get bogged down when the game is slowed down, which will happen a lot in the postseason.
Durant is obviously one of the most gifted scorers in the league, but his efficiency drops significantly if he's not getting to the line and is being guarded by a wing defender like Marion who doesn't give up a significant height or quickness advantage. Another issue is obviously the Thunder's ability to get him the ball in good spots, which I've seen articles written by people much more knowledgeable than me (i.e. Sebastian Pruiti) attribute to Westbrook's not-so-great passing ability and the lack of offense from the non-big 3 players on the team allowing teams to cheat off of them.
Another problem seems to be that OKC's best defensive players, i.e. Sefalosha and Perkins, are non-threats on offense, so they're often forced to pick between offense and defense at all times. This will be an issue when they run into better teams that they will not be able to defend effectively without their best defenders on the floor, who will also be able to take advantage of those defensive players to make life miserable for Durant and Westbrook.
P.S. I still think that Dirk got mugged that game, and that the Thunder would very likely have lost otherwise. They really have no answer for him. Ibaka is not savvy enough to guard him, Perkins is too slow even after slimming down, and Collison is neither tall, strong, or quick enough. Dirk has become masterful at passing out of double teams, and has teammates that can make OKC pay for sending a second defender at him. It wasn't until the refs swallowed their whistles that OKC started slowing Dirk down. |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 02:35. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
| On a separate note, someone needs to start a petition to have the NBA start calling fouls on Perkins and Garnett for the illegal screens they give all the time. It's so frustrating because it's so blatant and the refs are usually right there watching them do it since they usually screen for whoever has the ball. It's not even a violation that refs just tend to not call (i.e. offensive 3 seconds), because they do so with other players regularly. I'm sure they're not the only two guilty of it, but they've got to be two of the biggest offenders in my opinion. |
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| Ace United States. May 02 2012 03:23. Posts 13826 | Profile Blog # |
| The one I'd wish they called is when the Big screens and HOLDS the guard he popped. That is the one that really gets on my nerves. |
| | Scumteams tend to be roughly as good as their best member, towns tend to be roughly as good as the worst player who isn't actively detrimental. -The Fonz- Mafiascum.net |
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| justinpal United States. May 02 2012 03:35. Posts 3253 | Profile # |
| Refs call illegal screens all the time. It just depends on who they want to win. I feel like every screen in the NBA can be illegal. |
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| Mattchew United States. May 02 2012 03:37. Posts 5120 | Profile Blog # |
![[image loading]](http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1057160/untitled-1l7y7l.gif)
also, OKC ftwLast edit: 2012-05-02 03:37:59 |
| | There is always tomorrow nshs.seal. |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 03:39. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 03:23 Ace wrote:
The one I'd wish they called is when the Big screens and HOLDS the guard he popped. That is the one that really gets on my nerves.
Amen. I swear I saw Perkins do this on two consecutive plays last game with a ref less than 10 feet away.
P.S. As with the flopping, I don't blame KG or Perkins for doing what they're doing. If the refs are allowing it, why not use it? I put it on the NBA and their refs for allowing them to get away with the illegal screens and holding.Last edit: 2012-05-02 03:40:31 |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 03:39. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
Nice  Last edit: 2012-05-02 03:40:51 |
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| rabidch United States. May 02 2012 04:33. Posts 8305 | Profile # |
fire extinguisher* is a valued member of the miami heatLast edit: 2012-05-02 05:24:20 |
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| MassHysteria United States. May 02 2012 04:35. Posts 2293 | Profile # | |
| | At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise. |
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| andrewlt United States. May 02 2012 04:46. Posts 3131 | Profile # |
I don't think having non-scorers is as bad as people make it out to be, especially if those non-scorers are big men. The 90s Bulls had a bunch of centers who could only dunk and hit spot-up jumpers. Rodman often pays no attention to offense other than putbacks. The Spurs had Bruce Bowen who had all of 1 offensive move and a bunch of post-Robinson centers who were only there with their 6 fouls each so Duncan could play PF. The Pistons had Ben Wallace. The Celtics won with Perkins. The Lakers, on both runs, had a lot of unathletic guys who depended on Kobe/Shaw/Gasol to give them open shots.
Ibaka, to me, has a good enough jumper. All Perkins really needs to do is dunks and lay-ups. What OKC needs is a good offensive system that can get Durant good shots while putting Ibaka and Perkins in the only places they can score. It really doesn't matter if Ibaka can only sink shots reliably from one place as long as he can be at that place to punish teams that double team Durant/Westbrook. |
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| MassHysteria United States. May 02 2012 04:51. Posts 2293 | Profile # |
| BTW just want to harp on(more of an observation really) how Nowitzki just creates a mismatch for anybody in the NBA, which is why Dallas is so good in the playoffs. When it comes to matchups, and with Nowitzki, they have an advantage all game long. He was so hot last playoffs, and we all see what happened. I was hoping he could have a good postseason this year, too bad they might go out so soon. |
| | At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise. |
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| Holcan Canada. May 02 2012 05:01. Posts 2522 | Profile # |
| dirk got them buckets, but their defense last season was top 5. they aren't that good this year, they went back to soft mode, with only two workers and a bunch of jump shooters. they are decent, but they aren't the team a returning champion should be. this series is nice though, hope it goes to seven. |
| | Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character. |
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| MassHysteria United States. May 02 2012 05:17. Posts 2293 | Profile # |
| very true about their defense Holcan. Main difference really, even if Dirk played like the MVP last playoffs. |
| | At exactly what point do you start to realize that life without knowledge is death in disguise. |
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| VENDIZ May 02 2012 05:52. Posts 1573 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 21:57 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 15:16 VENDIZ wrote:
On May 01 2012 14:56 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 01 2012 13:38 vasculaR wrote:
moral of the story is be a good FT shooter haha.
I really don't understand how you CAN'T be if you are in the NBA. I really don't.
This is something that has long boggled my mind.. take Shaq for instance, he's a huuuuge guy with a lot of post moves (obviously as time went by he got more moves and got better, but so did his opponents) since high school - he must've known that people HAD to foul in order to stop him? Sooooo why doesn't he spend much more time on his FT shooting when he KNOWS he's going to get to the line probably ten times a game?! :<
Shaq was an 85% FT shooter in practice. It's mostly nerves.
If "the most dominant ever" (self-proclaimed of course) gets nervous about taking FTs when he's doing alley-oops in crunch time, I don't know what the fuck is going through that man's head;D .. but yeah, I hear often that a lot of bigs shoot FTs well in practice (i.e. Omer Asik, he's a brick in real games but a champ in FT knockouts during practice) |
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| jeeeeohn United States. May 02 2012 05:57. Posts 882 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 03:37 Mattchew wrote:also, OKC ftw
That is so brilliant. Where did that come from? I know the link is from SBnation but what movie? :0
Also, Hawks better win this game tonight. Or there will be blood. |
| | "Never forget the Cheer Cannon." (MLG Orlando, 2011) IdrA / HuK / INcontroL, On November 17 2011 07:41 iNcontroL wrote:[i]The pleasure was all mine[/i] / BoxeR / Ret / Stephano ("Napoleon") / Machine / Artosis: I am not a doctor. (Dreamhack Winter 2011) |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 06:05. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 04:46 andrewlt wrote:
I don't think having non-scorers is as bad as people make it out to be, especially if those non-scorers are big men. The 90s Bulls had a bunch of centers who could only dunk and hit spot-up jumpers. Rodman often pays no attention to offense other than putbacks. The Spurs had Bruce Bowen who had all of 1 offensive move and a bunch of post-Robinson centers who were only there with their 6 fouls each so Duncan could play PF. The Pistons had Ben Wallace. The Celtics won with Perkins. The Lakers, on both runs, had a lot of unathletic guys who depended on Kobe/Shaw/Gasol to give them open shots.
Ibaka, to me, has a good enough jumper. All Perkins really needs to do is dunks and lay-ups. What OKC needs is a good offensive system that can get Durant good shots while putting Ibaka and Perkins in the only places they can score. It really doesn't matter if Ibaka can only sink shots reliably from one place as long as he can be at that place to punish teams that double team Durant/Westbrook.
Agree to some extent, but OKC's issue is that they often have two non-threats in at any given time. They rarely have Harden, Durant and Westbrook in at the same time, and only have Cook, Fisher, and maybe Ibaka as the only consistent scoring threats apart from dunks/layups. That's not a lot of offensive versatility, and I wouldn't be all that comfortable relying on Cook and Fisher as the teammates who are supposed to relieve the pressure on the big 3.
From my recollection (which is far from perfect, so feel free to point out inaccuracies), the 90's Bulls usually had at least one big who was a consistent scoring threat and three offensive threats on the perimeter on the floor at any given time. That usually left them with 4 players who could score in a non-layup/dunk manner. They also played great defense and had players who could score in the post in Jordan and Pippen.
The Spurs always had three perimeter players who could score (yes, Bowen counts b/c of his consistent corner 3-pt shooting) and a scoring big as well (Duncan, Robinson, Malik Rose, Kevin Willis, etc.), which again left 4 scoring threats on the floor at any given time. They also played league-leading defense and had players who could score in the post (all of the bigs listed above).
The Pistons had Ben Wallace, but they also had Sheed and Okur to go with 3 perimeter scoring threats at all times. They also had league-leading defense and 2-3 players who could score in the post (Sheed, Prince and Billups).
The Celtics had KG, Big Baby, PJ Brown and Powe, and all of their perimeter players were scoring threats except for Tony Allen (who could be compensated for by having an additional scorer). They had league-leading defense, players who could score in the post (Pierce and KG) and great playmakers in Rondo, Pierce and KG.
The Lakers always had three perimeter scoring threats and at least one scoring big (Shaq, Gasol, Horry, Grant, etc.). They had multiple players who could score in the post (Kobe/Shaq or Kobe/Gasol/Bynum)
The Thunder don't have league-leading defense, don't have anybody who can score in the post, and usually only have 2 perimeter scoring threats on the floor at a time (Westbrook doesn't count). Throw in the fact that their best scoring big is Ibaka, with the other two not being a threat outside of the paint, and you can see how they might have trouble spreading defenses out and freeing up Westbrook, Harden, and/or Durant. That's not even considering that they basically have one good playmaker in Harden, with Westbrook and Durant being league-leaders in TOs.
OKC is not a bad team by any stretch of the imagination, and they are legitimate contenders. But they definitely have flaws (particularly on offense), and I don't see them as significant favorites against any of the other contenders. |
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| DomiNater United States. May 02 2012 06:10. Posts 437 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 05:57 jeeeeohn wrote:That is so brilliant. Where did that come from? I know the link is from SBnation but what movie? :0 Also, Hawks better win this game tonight. Or there will be blood.
The original GIF is from Office Space I believe. |
| | After I captured the elephant in the room, swept her under the rug for the hell of it... I welcome you to the melting through, of a planet that was selfish in its development of a healthy view. |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 06:11. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 05:52 VENDIZ wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 21:57 Zorkmid wrote:
On May 01 2012 15:16 VENDIZ wrote:
On May 01 2012 14:56 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 01 2012 13:38 vasculaR wrote:
moral of the story is be a good FT shooter haha.
I really don't understand how you CAN'T be if you are in the NBA. I really don't.
This is something that has long boggled my mind.. take Shaq for instance, he's a huuuuge guy with a lot of post moves (obviously as time went by he got more moves and got better, but so did his opponents) since high school - he must've known that people HAD to foul in order to stop him? Sooooo why doesn't he spend much more time on his FT shooting when he KNOWS he's going to get to the line probably ten times a game?! :<
Shaq was an 85% FT shooter in practice. It's mostly nerves.
If "the most dominant ever" (self-proclaimed of course) gets nervous about taking FTs when he's doing alley-oops in crunch time, I don't know what the fuck is going through that man's head;D .. but yeah, I hear often that a lot of bigs shoot FTs well in practice (i.e. Omer Asik, he's a brick in real games but a champ in FT knockouts during practice)
I don't know if it's nerves so much as it's almost a mental block. Malone came into the league as a terrible FT shooter, and was only able to become a decent FT shooter after coming up with that long-ass mantra he would recite before every shot. There's something about taking a standing set-shot without any rhythm and having all eyes on you that makes it more than just an uncontested 15-ft shot.
It's easy to say that any player that makes it to the NBA should be able to shoot FTs at better than 60-65% (or whatever your threshold is), but the reality of it is very different. I think it's silly to attribute it to a lack of practice, particularly when it comes to star players like Shaq and D12 who know how important their FT shooting is and certainly put a lot of time into working on it.
FT shooting is very fundamental, but it's hardly the only fundamental skill many NBA players are lacking in. I'd actually argue that it's more surprising that so many players come into the league being unable to dribble the ball competently, as I believe that's something that is even more basic than FT shooting. |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. May 02 2012 06:12. Posts 4187 | Profile # |
On May 02 2012 06:10 DomiNater wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 05:57 jeeeeohn wrote:
On May 02 2012 03:37 Mattchew wrote:also, OKC ftw
That is so brilliant. Where did that come from? I know the link is from SBnation but what movie? :0 Also, Hawks better win this game tonight. Or there will be blood.
The original GIF is from Office Space I believe.
Yup, definitely Office Space. |
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| Holcan Canada. May 02 2012 06:13. Posts 2522 | Profile # |
| I agree with your last statement a lot, and to add about boston, they also had kg, pierce and cassell to work the post area, that's pretty much one abused match-up at guard, forward, or center if needed. I don't know if posey, brown, or powe had post game, but they definitely had a thicker team than okc. |
| | Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character. |
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