On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
Grohg United States. April 26 2012 15:12. Posts 243
The fact that it's an joint announcement with all of the big players involved is the biggest part of this news. The Korean big boys with Blizzard's blessing is possibly the best way to expand the scene and ensure long-term stability. If this is true...the tug-of-war for rights should at least have a central figure if any dispute ever arises. Even without knowing the details of the news I am excited!
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
Oh well, I just wish they can cooperate. GOM would benefit from OGN about the league operation, while OGN would get the expertise on dealing with foreign fans/viewers and how to monetize the league to foreign fans. KesPa would also have two broadcasters for their league too.
I just wish their prides and stubbornness won't destroy this opportunity.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
GwSC United States. April 26 2012 15:13. Posts 1776
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
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0neder United States. April 26 2012 15:16. Posts 3732
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
But you are restricted to being on certain teams, no? There is none of that in SC2. Players like Huk, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano, etc would easily be good enough for a Korean team, but why would they join them? It seems like it would just hurt them. Other teams offer them a better opportunity. In a system like Kespa's though, it seems like it restricts them.
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
Thats not what I meant.
The biggest problem was with the entire license deal Kespa had going. This prevented a lot of talented players from playing in events. Because they had to go through a Code B style tournament called Courage. Which was hard ans hell and only 1 person made it every 3-4 months. a lot of people were stuck like this and it prevented a lot of really strong players from playing bw professionally.
Plus with the current system in sc2. A plyer can come and do test sessions with a team to try out for them. This means that if they think they are good enough, they can come and play and let the coaches decide who gets to be on the team.
In the bw system, that would not happen. The player would either have to be the next flash to have a team give out a special license, or they would have to have already won courage. Which means they are already super good, which also allows more rich teams to seek out that player, and other teams don't get the chance to.
if the guy is so uber awesome super duper talented he wouldnt be stuck in courage and/or would get recognized over time.
like its a bad thing that u have 2 show that u are good so a team will take note of u. i mean Kespa did alot of shit but i never understand why they get shit for this stuff..
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
what is weird/stupid or whatever with a license? its basically like a contract...
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
The same can be said for GOM. Games are played in a TV studio in Korea. Except you don't see GOM restricting players to certain teams. There don't seem to be any restrictions at all when it comes to that. Even the teams leagues have seen many foreign participants.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. KeSPA sure as hell hasn't banned foreigners participating in their leagues or joining their teams, it's just no foreigner has been on a level worthy of a pro KeSPA team for a long, long time
But you are restricted to being on certain teams, no? There is none of that in SC2. Players like Huk, Idra, Thorzain, Stephano, etc would easily be good enough for a Korean team, but why would they join them? It seems like it would just hurt them. Other teams offer them a better opportunity. In a system like Kespa's though, it seems like it restricts them.
so well Messi (football. for americans soccer) pro. is good enough 2 play in the german bundesliga. but guess what. he has 2 join a german team in case 2 play in a german league. GENIUS right? i know.
and imo u dont even need a team 2 play in the leagues? just a license Oo but dunno if i remember correctly.
Last edit: 2012-04-26 15:21:55
PhoenixDark United States. April 26 2012 15:20. Posts 283
I wonder how the leagues will be set up. Clearly they'll be working together in some capacity, but will GOM teams be allowed to participate in the proleague and vice versa? If they mix the teams, I doubt all the GOM teams will make it in; 10 teams participated in the GSTL, and there are 8 BW teams...18 would be too much.
Personally I hope OGN does a separate proleague with their 8 teams, and also runs a non-team tournament like OSL/GSL/etc with qualifiers. Maybe give Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc seeds alongside top SC2 players like MVP, DRG, MC, etc. Likewise, GSL would give four Code S seeds to top BW players (Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, and Bisu perhaps), while everyone else could partipate in code a/b qualifiers.
So perhaps while the OGN proleague runs, a GSL season will run on GOMTV. And when OGN's OSL type tournament is running, GSTL will run on GOMTV; having a team league and a solo tournament run at the same time seems more fair than having both team leagues competing with each other at the same time, or two solo tournaments at the same time.
Then at the end of the year have the top four OGN teams and the top four GSTL teams (based on a points system) play in a big tournament to determine who is the best team of the year. And of course the newly relevant WCG would basically be the final big solo tournament of the year/season
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
This is just a tiiiiiiny bit presumptuous don't you think. Particularly seeing as all the teams have expressed their biggest regret about BW was that it wasn't international?
If they keep the system they have in bw going in sc2. It will end the foreign scene. It may not be directly, but it'll happen.
No more huk in GSL ever, since he isn't good enough to get through Code B, no more Jinro, SaSe, Haypro, stephano in GSL. Cause they would have to win courage first. And having a Code B like tournament, I doubt even Naniwa would be able to win one, just because the brutality of it is so high.
Dunno they seemed to have opened up a lot with the LoL scene....
Ultimate KT Rolster Fanboy!| Afrotoss Fan #3|Neo.G_Soulkey – I was a better child than ZerO| Woo Jung Ho, never forget.| I want to make a game that will surpass Brood War!!! That is my dream.|"My body is not ready"-Soulkey
masterbreti Korea (South). April 26 2012 15:25. Posts 2548
On April 26 2012 14:59 masterbreti wrote: well this basically end the foreigner scene once kespa gets involved. if kespa acts like they do with bw on sc2. It'll be the end of the foreign scene. foreigner will either have to join a korean team or can't play in kespa leagues. which means that no foreigners will play in leagues and then Koreans won't actually want to play for foreign teams.
Koreansd will have less time to play in foreign events, which will take a lot of the starpower away from foreign tournaments, which won't help viewers. If Kespa gets their way its over. I just hope blizz and gom know what they are doing and don't let that happen.
i never understand how people act like Kespa is doing something wrong there Oo
they have a Team league that is played offline in a TV studio so ofcourse you have 2 be in korea and play there aka must on a Team there.
but yeah evil kespa. having good players. !
Thats not what I meant.
The biggest problem was with the entire license deal Kespa had going. This prevented a lot of talented players from playing in events. Because they had to go through a Code B style tournament called Courage. Which was hard ans hell and only 1 person made it every 3-4 months. a lot of people were stuck like this and it prevented a lot of really strong players from playing bw professionally.
Plus with the current system in sc2. A plyer can come and do test sessions with a team to try out for them. This means that if they think they are good enough, they can come and play and let the coaches decide who gets to be on the team.
In the bw system, that would not happen. The player would either have to be the next flash to have a team give out a special license, or they would have to have already won courage. Which means they are already super good, which also allows more rich teams to seek out that player, and other teams don't get the chance to.
if the guy is so uber awesome super duper talented he wouldnt be stuck in courage and/or would get recognized over time.
like its a bad thing that u have 2 show that u are good so a team will take note of u. i mean Kespa did alot of shit but i never understand why they get shit for this stuff..
On April 26 2012 15:05 pdd wrote: Those being weary of KeSPA. Do you really think GOM and Blizzard would allow them to limit player participation in their leagues? Do you really think Blizzard has no bargaining chip against them enforcing their weird ass rules? Do you know that the OGN-LoL league which is sanctioned by them (although I'm not sure it is organized by them) them includes 2 foreign teams? Do you think none of the Koreans in KeSPA teams want to get more money from participating at MLGs, Dreamhacks and IPLs?
Unfortunately it's those "weird-ass rules" (progamer licencing, fixed team/sponsor lineup) that gave Brood War competition the legitimacy and integrity it had. Without that, it would never have been the same, or as big probably.
Current SC2 scene is a huge mess, there is no order or structure to it. Tournaments, teams and players do whatever they want, when they want it, how they want it.
what is weird/stupid or whatever with a license? its basically like a contract...
Becuase this prevents the scene from growing like it has. players like Maru, Creator, bboongbboong wo0uld have never been able to get through courage. Not because they aren't good, but because its tough as hell and its 100x more competitive than Code B, Since only 1 courage winner every 3 months.
Than they have to find a team to give them a job. Because winning courage is not going to give you a spot on a team. A team has to want you then.
It limits the amount of people entering the scene and prevents newcomers from particpating. God knows I could not be able to win courage, neither would any of the foreigners in Korea be able to. Just how things would go about. unless a team would sacrafice on of their special exceptions, but only 2-3 teams have ever done that.,
I mean, a really really small chance, but it could happen!
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
densha United States. April 26 2012 15:33. Posts 797
There is no doubt in my mind that the first era of StarCraft 2 is about to come to an end. It was a time of innocence, a time of experimentation and even chaos. The Gods of Brood War now loom over us all. May they have mercy...
Honestly though, I feel like we are going to see SC2 play take a large leap forward with the best RTS players about to join the scene. There is just so much room for improvement even among our top players, largely in the micro department. Just look at the Stalker micro Parting did against MKP last night in Code S - he did more with Stalkers than anyone thought possible even against stim marines, medivacs, and tanks.
With SC2 being such a fast-paced game, keeping up with macro and microing the fast, volatile battles is extremely difficult. I can't wait to see who really has the skill to manage everything on the map that goes on in this game.
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0neder United States. April 26 2012 15:16. Posts 3732
rasers Sweden. April 26 2012 15:18. Posts 633
