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| Penecks United States. April 27 2012 09:23. Posts 564 | Profile Blog # |
Funny you mention the adrenaline, I actually no longer use SC2 as an enjoyable computer game, I generally only play it before I go to work out, or do some other intense physical activity. No joke, sometimes I'll do builds like cc first just to encourage opponents to cheese me so I get even more pissed off. Once I'm sufficiently mad after some matches and feel like punching a small child, I calmly get up and go to begin my workout, and it helps me out a ton, better than any of those creatine drinks you can buy.
And no I'm not really some rager, I don't physically harm things when I lose, nor do I take out rage on opponents, I gg wp every game. It's just how I channel the emotions the game sparks up within me in a positive way. |
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| Vei United States. April 27 2012 09:28. Posts 2701 | Profile # |
disagree with a lot of this thread.
the best thing you can do is either admit to yourself you REALLY want to be good at sc2, or admit to yourself that you're better off playing casual.
now, if you DO want to be good, what else is there to do BUT TO DO IT? And KEEP doing it?
Does an athlete enjoy foam rolling and doing drills at first? No. Does an sc2 amateur enjoy spamming ladder games at first? No. But they do it because they WANT to be COMPETITIVE and that's what it takes. The drive to be competitive is what matters the most. Drewbie practices marinesplit before games probably because he wants to be competitive as possible, and he finds that a very hard micro challenge gets him warmed up. I douuuubt that that routine originated as a way to sate his nerves (only he really knows though).
If you want to be competitive, then you can't spend that much time being scared of ladder. Especially because SO many pros have come out and said "when I stopped caring about ladder rank and more about my raw skills, ladder anxiety faded and I played more games more easily AND I got insanely better." That is a butchered quote from at least Demuslim, and I'm sure many other players.
bottom line -- sc2 has been out for nearly two years including beta. ladder anxiety is in my experience, something that happens when you are out of practice and care more about your rank/how people see you than how see your own skills. do you want to be good, or do you want to have a top8 master shiny star? if the latter, then derank to diamond and re-rank into master so you get placed in a weak division -- problem solved. if the former, then put in the work. |
| | www.justin.tv/veisc2 ~ 720p + commentary |  |
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| RogerChillingworth April 27 2012 09:46. Posts 2268 | Profile # |
I agree with listening to music improving performance and reducing stress; can't bring myself to gg ever, though. Unless I've played well and my opponent played really well, and I respected his play, I'm not gonna rock the gg formality. I just don't think it's valuable.
Also kind of hard to be anxiety free if you're a competitive person by nature. If you want to win, you're gonna get upset at a loss, and feel reved up at the start of the game. To be carefree but competitive is a hard bat to swing. |
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| ThunderBum Australia. April 27 2012 09:51. Posts 51 | Profile # |
On April 27 2012 09:28 Vei wrote:
disagree with a lot of this thread.
the best thing you can do is either admit to yourself you REALLY want to be good at sc2, or admit to yourself that you're better off playing casual.
now, if you DO want to be good, what else is there to do BUT TO DO IT? And KEEP doing it?
Does an athlete enjoy foam rolling and doing drills at first? No. Does an sc2 amateur enjoy spamming ladder games at first? No. But they do it because they WANT to be COMPETITIVE and that's what it takes. The drive to be competitive is what matters the most. Drewbie practices marinesplit before games probably because he wants to be competitive as possible, and he finds that a very hard micro challenge gets him warmed up. I douuuubt that that routine originated as a way to sate his nerves (only he really knows though).
If you want to be competitive, then you can't spend that much time being scared of ladder. Especially because SO many pros have come out and said "when I stopped caring about ladder rank and more about my raw skills, ladder anxiety faded and I played more games more easily AND I got insanely better." That is a butchered quote from at least Demuslim, and I'm sure many other players.
bottom line -- sc2 has been out for nearly two years including beta. ladder anxiety is in my experience, something that happens when you are out of practice and care more about your rank/how people see you than how see your own skills. do you want to be good, or do you want to have a top8 master shiny star? if the latter, then derank to diamond and re-rank into master so you get placed in a weak division -- problem solved. if the former, then put in the work.
That's a good observation but you haven't actually said anything about how to get motivated to put in the work. People know they shouldn't be hesitant to ladder, but knowing doesn't translate into feeling that way. Not feeling apprehension about the ladder is what people are trying to figure out by approaching the ladder with a different perspective than they one they currently have.
Advice such as "just do it" or "get over the fear" is totally meaningless to a person who is obviously having difficulty with it. |
| | I may be slow, but I am slow |  |
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| Suc Australia. April 27 2012 09:53. Posts 1566 | Profile Blog # |
Seriously, although it's hard and the exact thing that you're nervous about, the only real solution from my experience is to play more games. This is pretty embarrassing, but in bw, I got quite a few iccup accounts to 1 point. To put that in perspective, you start with 1000 points, and for people at the same level, you get 100 points for winning and lose 50 for losing. Once you get to 750 or something, you move down a rank and you start losing points at a slower rate. I had to make new accounts because people didn't want to play with someone with 1 point because they wouldn't get any points for winning. I eventually made it to D+ (2000 points) and then stopped playing a lot..... then after sc2 had been out for a few months I got master league  .
You just have to play more and more until you get over it, the fear of losing disappears over time. I guess music makes you more comfortable, but in my own opinion, all that other warm-up stuff seems a bit silly. |
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| DjRetro Chile. April 27 2012 09:54. Posts 298 | Profile Blog # | |
| | SpaceSynth-ItaloDisco-HiNRG http://www.radiostaddenhaag.com/ |
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| BearStorm United States. April 27 2012 10:04. Posts 773 | Profile # |
On April 27 2012 09:51 ThunderBum wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 09:28 Vei wrote:
disagree with a lot of this thread.
the best thing you can do is either admit to yourself you REALLY want to be good at sc2, or admit to yourself that you're better off playing casual.
now, if you DO want to be good, what else is there to do BUT TO DO IT? And KEEP doing it?
Does an athlete enjoy foam rolling and doing drills at first? No. Does an sc2 amateur enjoy spamming ladder games at first? No. But they do it because they WANT to be COMPETITIVE and that's what it takes. The drive to be competitive is what matters the most. Drewbie practices marinesplit before games probably because he wants to be competitive as possible, and he finds that a very hard micro challenge gets him warmed up. I douuuubt that that routine originated as a way to sate his nerves (only he really knows though).
If you want to be competitive, then you can't spend that much time being scared of ladder. Especially because SO many pros have come out and said "when I stopped caring about ladder rank and more about my raw skills, ladder anxiety faded and I played more games more easily AND I got insanely better." That is a butchered quote from at least Demuslim, and I'm sure many other players.
bottom line -- sc2 has been out for nearly two years including beta. ladder anxiety is in my experience, something that happens when you are out of practice and care more about your rank/how people see you than how see your own skills. do you want to be good, or do you want to have a top8 master shiny star? if the latter, then derank to diamond and re-rank into master so you get placed in a weak division -- problem solved. if the former, then put in the work.
That's a good observation but you haven't actually said anything about how to get motivated to put in the work. People know they shouldn't be hesitant to ladder, but knowing doesn't translate into feeling that way. Not feeling apprehension about the ladder is what people are trying to figure out by approaching the ladder with a different perspective than they one they currently have. Advice such as "just do it" or "get over the fear" is totally meaningless to a person who is obviously having difficulty with it.
His advice isn't simply "just do it" though. He brings up the question of "what do you want from the game?" and then draws an analogy to training in real sports which some people can relate to. I think anyone who has ever trained for a competition within traditional sports can find value in hs advice. No wrestler likes to do drills 3hr a day in a heated room to make weight. Linemen hate bags and boards. Rugby forwards don't like the strain of mauling drills. People general don't enjoy the hard work but do so anyways if they want to compete. Even if his advice is obvious he demonstrates it in a way that reminds people what they work for through a medium which they might have worked through in the past. The advice is not meaningless and I don't think it does anyone any good if you downplay it.
Last edit: 2012-04-27 10:07:40 |
| | "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" |  |
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| BrightSideSC2 United States. April 27 2012 10:23. Posts 73 | Profile Blog # |
One of the most sought-after answers in the SC2 universe!! (much better than "42") Thanks for the post, Panda - You, sir, have made a fabulous contribution to the community.
(cool graphics too, bro)
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| | @BrightSide_SC2 <-Fun twitter updates about ...Starcraft community stuff :D | |
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| tritonice United States. April 27 2012 10:45. Posts 68 | Profile # |
| djWheat said it awesomely a couple of weeks ago on his stream. Chat trolls were pointing out mistakes in Wheat's play, and Wheat did a patented rant: "I don't care if I lose 50 games in a row, I play to get better and I love the game!" That broke all of my anxiety right there. Now, having two kids keeps me from playing OFTEN. . . . TT |
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| Ragados April 27 2012 10:51. Posts 29 | Profile # |
I find that listening to aphex twin and led zeppelin before my games relaxes me. i usually like to play a custom or team game before 1v1s also. you cant put too much thinking into winning and losing, just playing the game and practicing what you do best is most important. once i find some time, i can definitely get into masters with a bit of practice and patience.
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| radscorpion9 Canada. April 27 2012 11:01. Posts 1328 | Profile # |
On April 27 2012 10:45 tritonice wrote:
djWheat said it awesomely a couple of weeks ago on his stream. Chat trolls were pointing out mistakes in Wheat's play, and Wheat did a patented rant: "I don't care if I lose 50 games in a row, I play to get better and I love the game!" That broke all of my anxiety right there. Now, having two kids keeps me from playing OFTEN. . . . TT
Its funny sometimes how he says that, but then when he loses to something silly he starts raging and saying he was so stupid for this and that. Its at that point when it becomes a bit comical, as its hard to believe that he truly "loves" the game. Its probably more appropriate to call it a love/hate relationship 
Anyway, its interesting how much work people need to put in to enjoy playing a *game*. But I really like point 8, it does build character. Learning to deal with anxiety and enraging situations can be one of the main benefits of playing this, even if it isn't particularly pleasant, its probably better to learn it in a safe online environment than otherwise.Last edit: 2012-04-27 11:05:56 |
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| Maxtor United Kingdom. April 27 2012 11:20. Posts 243 | Profile Blog # |
As a person who's experienced this, and know several people that have too i totally love the advice. When I was playing a ton of games i didnt have sc2 sound on, i just had music on and it probably helped. My breakthrough came when i wanted to do a ladder session but was feeling anxious about it, i asked myself, why do i care? if i have a fear of demotion, that demotion is more likely to happen if i dont play, i still get the adrenaline rush when i start but once i hit that first find match button, i have no problem with having a 10game session+. Its just getting that first game in for me.
Good manners helped too, i felt like when i GGed out, i put that game behind me, win or lose it was fun. Although i am ashamed to say, if just as im about to type out GG and leave, someone tells me to leave the game in chat, i just go afk and grab a cup of tea and a sandwich and when i come back hopefully they're finished, I wish i could be as well mannered as sheth or white-ra! |
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| ThunderBum Australia. April 27 2012 11:21. Posts 51 | Profile # |
On April 27 2012 10:04 BearStorm wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 09:51 ThunderBum wrote:
On April 27 2012 09:28 Vei wrote:
disagree with a lot of this thread.
the best thing you can do is either admit to yourself you REALLY want to be good at sc2, or admit to yourself that you're better off playing casual.
now, if you DO want to be good, what else is there to do BUT TO DO IT? And KEEP doing it?
Does an athlete enjoy foam rolling and doing drills at first? No. Does an sc2 amateur enjoy spamming ladder games at first? No. But they do it because they WANT to be COMPETITIVE and that's what it takes. The drive to be competitive is what matters the most. Drewbie practices marinesplit before games probably because he wants to be competitive as possible, and he finds that a very hard micro challenge gets him warmed up. I douuuubt that that routine originated as a way to sate his nerves (only he really knows though).
If you want to be competitive, then you can't spend that much time being scared of ladder. Especially because SO many pros have come out and said "when I stopped caring about ladder rank and more about my raw skills, ladder anxiety faded and I played more games more easily AND I got insanely better." That is a butchered quote from at least Demuslim, and I'm sure many other players.
bottom line -- sc2 has been out for nearly two years including beta. ladder anxiety is in my experience, something that happens when you are out of practice and care more about your rank/how people see you than how see your own skills. do you want to be good, or do you want to have a top8 master shiny star? if the latter, then derank to diamond and re-rank into master so you get placed in a weak division -- problem solved. if the former, then put in the work.
That's a good observation but you haven't actually said anything about how to get motivated to put in the work. People know they shouldn't be hesitant to ladder, but knowing doesn't translate into feeling that way. Not feeling apprehension about the ladder is what people are trying to figure out by approaching the ladder with a different perspective than they one they currently have. Advice such as "just do it" or "get over the fear" is totally meaningless to a person who is obviously having difficulty with it.
His advice isn't simply "just do it" though. He brings up the question of "what do you want from the game?" and then draws an analogy to training in real sports which some people can relate to. I think anyone who has ever trained for a competition within traditional sports can find value in hs advice. No wrestler likes to do drills 3hr a day in a heated room to make weight. Linemen hate bags and boards. Rugby forwards don't like the strain of mauling drills. People general don't enjoy the hard work but do so anyways if they want to compete. Even if his advice is obvious he demonstrates it in a way that reminds people what they work for through a medium which they might have worked through in the past. The advice is not meaningless and I don't think it does anyone any good if you downplay it.
I feel that his post is aimed at people who want be competitive and want to know how to practice to get there, which isn't totally unrelated to ladder anxiety but it's not the same either. Playing SC2 isn't a case of choosing to either be a pro, or not care and be a casual, there is a significant population in the middle where people want to win and improve, but know they won't be pro.
You are right in that it isn't a meaningless post, and I said I thought it was a good observation. But that one line where he says "now, if you DO want to be good, what else is there to do BUT TO DO IT? And KEEP doing it?" is meaningless in the context of overcoming ladder anxiety. I put that in a separate paragraph to try and indicate that that one thing by itself was what I was referring to as meaningless. |
| | I may be slow, but I am slow | |
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| OSM.OneManArmy United States. April 27 2012 11:34. Posts 418 | Profile # |
| Word up brother, great read and thank you! :D |
| | Tupac R.I.P // Admin of HSL, a starleague for Highschoolers :D hsstarleague.com | |
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| ePLocust United States. April 27 2012 11:36. Posts 571 | Profile Blog # |
Panda you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Don't be afraid to holler.
;D see what i did there? |
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| jeeeeohn United States. April 27 2012 11:45. Posts 860 | Profile Blog # |
While I'm sure this post has helped someone, speaking from personal experience, you don't really "get over" ladder anxiety. You either have anxiety or you don't.
I'm an extremely anxious person. I get wound up when I play. If I lose a game in which I perceived an advantage, I'm going to rage 100% of the time (especially against Protoss). Like with Brood War: I don't want to put in hundreds of hours just to be not-awful TO THEN have a CHANCE of enjoying this "game." I can honestly say that the only time I really have fun playing SC2 is when I'm offracing on my smurf account (sky terran! <3), and even then I get upset when I lose.
Throw in the fact that half the people you meet on ladder are going to BM you, it's just completely depressing. Losing ruins my night.
But really, maybe it's just me. I tend to rage in anything competitive (man, you should have seen me in basketball 3-4 years ago...being around me during one of my "moments" was bad for your health). I have a lot of pent up aggression and in all honesty I probably need counseling, even though 99% of the time I'm perfectly calm and wouldn't hurt a fly.
I've had ladder anxiety since I was a 13 year old playing WC3. You either have it or you don't, and there's no real way to get rid of it. So, yeah, as sad as it sounds, "get over it" is the only real advice you can give someone.
Edit: not to say it was a bad post! In fact I'll probably take most of it to heart. Just saying it won't be applicable to everyone. Last edit: 2012-04-27 11:50:17 |
| | "Never forget the Cheer Cannon." (MLG Orlando, 2011) IdrA / HuK / INcontroL, On November 17 2011 07:41 iNcontroL wrote:[i]The pleasure was all mine[/i] / BoxeR / Ret / Stephano ("Napoleon") / Machine / Artosis: I am not a doctor. (Dreamhack Winter 2011) | |
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| Primadog United States. April 27 2012 11:48. Posts 4395 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Thank God and gunrun. |  |
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| vlnplyr United States. April 27 2012 11:50. Posts 76 | Profile # |
| Well written and helpful points. I would like to suggest that you be made a part of one of HuskyStarcraft's "Ladder Anxiety" videos just to put these points out there in your own words. Seriously though, I am going to take these words to heart - thanks for taking the time to write this up. |
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| Logan_ps United Kingdom. April 27 2012 14:24. Posts 105 | Profile Blog # |
| Thanks for posting. A good read. The thing that struck home the most for me was what you wrote about laddering being Character building. I've used the same techniques I used to beat agoraphobia to get over ladder anxiety. After all, there are far more difficult things in life - as you say, it's a game, we just need to go play! |
| | Playstuff |  |
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| KapsyL Sweden. April 27 2012 19:37. Posts 487 | Profile # |
| ah man i had that for so long. til i decided to make a stream and that gave me the motivation to press that scary button. good read though |
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