Talking Balance with David Kim - Page 31

On April 28 2012 03:36 SupLilSon wrote:


trololol

yea, itd be nice to have some substantial evidence ;\

On April 28 2012 03:49 SuperYo1000 wrote:



..... time frame win rates do provide evidence but Im certain that you will never be satisfied

On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).

Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.

Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.

Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.

What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.

What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)

If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.

Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.

On April 28 2012 03:21 Mystgun wrote:
I think you guys have to realize that changes are not made in isolation and you can't address something like "TvP late game" without creating issues in other match-ups at other points of the game. SC2 is Blizzard's flagship eSports franchise and you can bet that they have people working hard to address balance issues, but they are not going to make a bunch of changes based solely on qualitative community feedback. I also think ZvP is a bit broken right now thanks to Stephano, but I can't conceive a solution that wouldn't break other match ups ("nerfing roach" will create more problems than it will solve).

I agree that these statistics are a little bit superficial and it's really to show that they have some data to back up their decisions, but I don't really expect them to upload a spreadsheet of all the match-up data from battle.net either. It would be nice to show some trends over time to see how the metagame is evolving and what are the variances from week to week.

The map statistics are a bit surprising. I didn't think of Cloud Kingdom as a PvT favored map but I guess drops in the main are difficult which basically shuts down Terran in the late game. 70% is a huge discrepancy and his casual tone is a bit alarming.

On April 28 2012 04:19 aksfjh wrote:

Really, I'm not mad that nothing is on the table for TvP, I'm just concerned that they didn't even make a nod towards it. There was no mention of struggles between Terran lategame at all, just that the early game might favor Terran in TvZ, which really hasn't come up in months before now. It feels like they're really focusing on Korean numbers and US/EU feedback, and Terran is still "fine" in Korea.

On April 28 2012 04:19 aksfjh wrote:

Really, I'm not mad that nothing is on the table for TvP, I'm just concerned that they didn't even make a nod towards it. There was no mention of struggles between Terran lategame at all, just that the early game might favor Terran in TvZ, which really hasn't come up in months before now. It feels like they're really focusing on Korean numbers and US/EU feedback, and Terran is still "fine" in Korea.

On April 28 2012 04:22 Plansix wrote:


Maybe it is not as big of a problem as people think it is. Maybe there are silent terrans out there having no problem at all. Or Blizzard sees that the problem is correcting itself as the metagame moves on.

On April 28 2012 04:29 aksfjh wrote:

But that seems to be the opposite approach they've taken so far. The last time I remember them taking a really hands-off approach to balance was the initial lategame TvZ stance, where they said something about infestor/BL combo maybe being too strong, and we heard nothing for months until the situation "flipped" and ghosts got more screen time in major tournaments.

I mean, looking back at the Thor energy change and Ghost nerfs, they were all fairly fast paced without waiting for strategies to catch up. It's not like Blizzard to wait things out like this. Also, Terran pros have made comments about TvP, especially non-Koreans.

On April 28 2012 04:39 Plansix wrote:


I will agree they jumped the gun with the snipe, but they have always been reluctant to mess with late game issues otherwise. The other changes were more for all ins of specific types. People forget that when the thor had no energy, players like Nony were trying things like using phoenixes to pick up stunned immortals(a terrible plan) in an attempt to deal with thors and the strike cannons. It was a silly time.

But the current “issue” in PvT is not some all in, but late game with 200/200 armies. When an issue is so far in the late game, it is far more likely to work itself out.

On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.

On April 28 2012 03:53 SupLilSon wrote:


really? Have you never heard of confounding variables? Or the phrase, "correlation is not causation". Just because Terran has good early game win rates doesn't mean it's because of scouting. There are a number of reasons that could be. That's why I said "substantial".