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| SKYFISH_ Bulgaria. April 28 2012 21:30. Posts 620 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to 
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore.
People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue.
So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not.
I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races.
Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
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| | In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg |  |
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| Wingblade United States. April 28 2012 21:36. Posts 745 | Profile # |
| If we're going to look at helping Terran in TvP lategame, we should consequently help Protoss in that midgame. A chart taken from MLG Providence shows that in games that ended between 15-20 minutes Terran won 70 percent of the games. In games ending between 10-15 minutes it was 60 percent for Terran. The matchup is balanced as long as Terrans have an equally or greater advantage in the midgame to the lategame edge Terran has. |
| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." GO Labyrinth! |  |
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| FairForever Canada. April 28 2012 21:39. Posts 2186 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:36 Wingblade wrote:
If we're going to look at helping Terran in TvP lategame, we should consequently help Protoss in that midgame. A chart taken from MLG Providence shows that in games that ended between 15-20 minutes Terran won 70 percent of the games. In games ending between 10-15 minutes it was 60 percent for Terran. The matchup is balanced as long as Terrans have an equally or greater advantage in the midgame to the lategame edge Terran has.
MLG Providence was 5 months ago... |
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| Wingblade United States. April 28 2012 21:41. Posts 745 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
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| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." GO Labyrinth! | |
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| VTPerfect United States. April 28 2012 21:42. Posts 486 | Profile Blog # |
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
did you know colossus is underpowered at top level? /mindblown? If you actually watch top level PvT you'll notice that the Protoss is not mass aoe a-move gg nothing terran can do in lategame in fact its not uncommon at all for the terran to come out ahead in the big fights only for bringing in inbase templar and a second round of chargelots to even it out. The protoss are winning because they are essentially starving the Terrans out by keeping them on 3 base and always harassing the worker lines while the terrans are apparently ignoring the fact and losing many scv's or are making an orbital when a planetary should have been made. Winrates say terran is better.
why do people like you care so much about balance? even if Terran had a 70% winrate vs protoss what is that going to get you, a free league promotion? doubtful, more prize money? laughably doubtful, more fun? maybe at first until you win your away above your equally skilled protoss opponents and play stronger players and lose anyway. |
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 teamhozac April 28 2012 21:45. Posts 404 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy |
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| teamhozac April 28 2012 21:46. Posts 404 | Profile # |
The protoss are winning because they are essentially starving the Terrans out by keeping them on 3 base and always harassing the worker lines while the terrans are apparently ignoring the fact and losing many scv's or are making an orbital when a planetary should have been made. Winrates say terran is better.
ummm April fools? lol you can't be serious with those 2 sentences |
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| Wingblade United States. April 28 2012 21:47. Posts 745 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:39 FairForever wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:36 Wingblade wrote:
If we're going to look at helping Terran in TvP lategame, we should consequently help Protoss in that midgame. A chart taken from MLG Providence shows that in games that ended between 15-20 minutes Terran won 70 percent of the games. In games ending between 10-15 minutes it was 60 percent for Terran. The matchup is balanced as long as Terrans have an equally or greater advantage in the midgame to the lategame edge Terran has.
MLG Providence was 5 months ago...
And what's your point? There has not been a patch to PvT since before the event. The decreased cost of Protoss upgrades came before Providence. My point still stands because the dynamics of the matchup were the exact same 5 months ago. Nice try. |
| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." GO Labyrinth! | |
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| PureBalls Austria. April 28 2012 21:47. Posts 383 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:45 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy
That is a good thing. |
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| Guamshin Netherlands. April 28 2012 21:50. Posts 293 | Profile # |
| How is 70% win rate for protoss balanced? |
| | Weeeee |  |
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| Recognizable Netherlands. April 28 2012 21:51. Posts 1359 | Profile Blog # |
On April 28 2012 21:47 PureBalls wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:45 teamhozac wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy
That is a good thing.
No it's not. Terran has no viable all ins which allows protoss to be extremely greedy. On the other hand, all Terrans now how powerfull Protoss all ins are... |
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| Wingblade United States. April 28 2012 21:51. Posts 745 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:45 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy
Your midgame advantage still stands then right? |
| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." GO Labyrinth! | |
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| Wingblade United States. April 28 2012 21:53. Posts 745 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:51 Recognizable wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:47 PureBalls wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:45 teamhozac wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy
That is a good thing.
No it's not. Terran has no viable all ins which allows protoss to be extremely greedy. On the other hand, all Terrans now how powerfull Protoss all ins are...
Wait what? The huge rush distance still exists. We have warpgate to alleviate that, but any amount of scouting can detect an all-in from any race and allow proper preparation. Besides, t1 gateway units are just plain bad against MMM. |
| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." GO Labyrinth! | |
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| Gladiator6 Sweden. April 28 2012 21:56. Posts 6831 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:50 Guamshin wrote:
How is 70% win rate for protoss balanced?
And how is 70% winrate for Terran in midgame balanced? Just same question durr... |
| | Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO |  |
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| SKYFISH_ Bulgaria. April 28 2012 21:59. Posts 620 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:42 VTPerfect wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
did you know colossus is underpowered at top level? /mindblown? If you actually watch top level PvT you'll notice that the Protoss is not mass aoe a-move gg nothing terran can do in lategame in fact its not uncommon at all for the terran to come out ahead in the big fights only for bringing in inbase templar and a second round of chargelots to even it out. The protoss are winning because they are essentially starving the Terrans out by keeping them on 3 base and always harassing the worker lines while the terrans are apparently ignoring the fact and losing many scv's or are making an orbital when a planetary should have been made. Winrates say terran is better. why do people like you care so much about balance? even if Terran had a 70% winrate vs protoss what is that going to get you, a free league promotion? doubtful, more prize money? laughably doubtful, more fun? maybe at first until you win your away above your equally skilled protoss opponents and play stronger players and lose anyway.
Leaving your bashing aside, as I play random nowadays, I care more about people who think they have ''figured'' out stuff' than the balance itself.
Mass AOE is not that strong due to the new maps.
Watch a 'pro' game on the good old chokefests such as Metalopolis and see if it doesnt turn into the classic 1a AOE protossball v a blob of marauders, provided the P survives the imminent 2 base push.
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| | In Soviet Terranistan you rush the Zerg | |
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| Blattdorf Poland. April 28 2012 22:05. Posts 37 | Profile # |
Well, if you want to fix Zerg early scout, then why not move the Overlord Speed upgrade to Hatchery with no tech requirements? Make it cost 100 minerals and 50 gas, or just 100 minerals.
EDIT: Come to think of it, Blizzard tends to fix balance by making certain units completely unviable in the game, like the Reaper or Thor. Especially Reaper, which was ridiculous early game, but without the speed upgrade it's completely useless. Maybe just make it a Tier 2 unit and give it the Speed Upgrade from the get-go? Make the Factory or Eng bay a tech requirement.Last edit: 2012-04-28 22:10:24 |
| | Drop by for translations into Polish: http://tinyurl.com/6fjwlnt |
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| teamhozac April 28 2012 22:42. Posts 404 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:47 PureBalls wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:45 teamhozac wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:41 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
1-1-1 got nerfed? You can still win in the midgame, and you have a comfortable advantage there before lots of AoE gets out. Maybe there has been no adjusting of AoE because Blizzard doesnt think there should be. If you think your a brilliant balance designer than you should apply at blizzard, I'm sure you know so much more than all of their paid designers right now.
Having larger maps makes 1-1-1 basically useless. For once Blizzard actually let the metagame (sort of) develop, although you guys did get an immortal range buff out of it. But like I said before, the HUGE rush distances basically make 1-1-1 an extinct strategy
That is a good thing.
Good thing for you maybe, bad thing for Terran. Like my esteemed colleague just stated, protoss now has a hall pass to play greedy knowing terran cannot do anything about it
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| iglocska Norway. April 28 2012 23:03. Posts 573 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 21:42 VTPerfect wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 21:30 SKYFISH_ wrote:
On April 28 2012 21:21 Wingblade wrote:
On April 28 2012 17:11 Scila wrote:
On April 27 2012 21:11 -Kira wrote:
On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
let it cook a little, untill terrans figure it out just like toss had to
Yeah Protoss had to figure out so much man. Terrans use Thors - Thors nerfed. Terrans use BFH - blue flame nerfed. Terrans use 2 rax - 2 rax nerfed. Protoss don't use Warp Prism, Blizzard buffs Warp Prism and Protoss start to use it. Yeah man, you sure had to figure a lot of things out. There's nothing to figure out. Terran higher tech units (Tanks, Thors, Ravens, BCs) are horrible against Protoss, and not good enough against Zerg. That's why Terrans are sticking to MMM all game long.
But isn't the main issue of TvP "difficulty" the power of lategame Protoss AoE and mass chargelot warpins? Those things have always been around. The Protoss AoE has not been patched in almost a year, and nothing has changed regarding warpins. The main things that give Terran trouble have always been around. We learned how to utilize them, now it is your turn.
No, you didnt learn to utilize anything, maps just became bigger while Blizzard kept nerfing Terran early game which means they cant end the game off one base anymore. People have been bitching about Protoss AOE since the game was released and Blizzard refuse to address the issue. So T players are stuck with MMM, like it or not. I personally dont mind, but shit got stale fast for many people so they either stopped playing or switched races. Ultimately its Blizz's loss though
did you know colossus is underpowered at top level? /mindblown? If you actually watch top level PvT you'll notice that the Protoss is not mass aoe a-move gg nothing terran can do in lategame in fact its not uncommon at all for the terran to come out ahead in the big fights only for bringing in inbase templar and a second round of chargelots to even it out. The protoss are winning because they are essentially starving the Terrans out by keeping them on 3 base and always harassing the worker lines while the terrans are apparently ignoring the fact and losing many scv's or are making an orbital when a planetary should have been made. Winrates say terran is better. why do people like you care so much about balance? even if Terran had a 70% winrate vs protoss what is that going to get you, a free league promotion? doubtful, more prize money? laughably doubtful, more fun? maybe at first until you win your away above your equally skilled protoss opponents and play stronger players and lose anyway.
The colossus may be underpowered when expected, but like the ultralisk, an unexpected lategame switch into them is devastating for terrans.
The second part of your post is ignoring a very important aspect for people on these forums: fun while watching tournaments. I myself am low masters, so none of the balance changes would affect me apart from, as you pointed out, being a few extra points higher. On the other hand, I really enjoy watching top tier tournaments and as a viewer, lategame PvT right now can be a bit frustrating to watch. |
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| shadymmj April 28 2012 23:26. Posts 1310 | Profile # |
| david kim is a curse. the game is about as balanced as it could come, and yet he likes to knee jerk things. 2-3 months is nothing. what he should be looking into, as mentioned, is evening out the win rates between stages of the game. |
| | There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds. |  |
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| BrandFilt Sweden. April 28 2012 23:53. Posts 56 | Profile # |
On April 28 2012 19:59 PureBalls wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 19:55 BrandFilt wrote:
On April 28 2012 19:24 PureBalls wrote:
On April 28 2012 19:18 nOondn wrote:yes terran win 56,3% againt P , but every game that terran win is "lategame" situation or not ?
Not important. Whats important: terrans have a higher chance of winning, and yet the forum whiners keep on QQing.
Wow, talk about not getting the point.
There is no point. The changes proposed by the whiners cant be done with a patch. You'll have to wait for HotS. What would be needed is a significant nerf to stim and medivacs, and a buff to thors/ravens/viking land mode. That would of course fuck up TvZ greatly. And the game is in a good place balance wise now. So of course Blizzard are not going to make a patch like that, and potentially break the game across all MUs.
Yes the game is balanced in the sense that Terran wins early, mid game and Protoss wins everything after that so the numbers are almost 50/50 but can you really say that such a game is in a "good place". I'd say not. David Kim and others have to get their shit together and fix what they have already realeased instead of sitting on their asses and coming up with ideas for HoTS.
While talking about HoTS.. why did they even come up with the idea of the shredder? Has anyone felt it was ever needed? I mean we already have supply walls, bunkers, sensor towers etc. why did they feel the need to develop that thing then? Thank god it was taken out, just like the replicator. Who pulled that idea out of their ass? I don't think they are addressing issues that are needed to address with the new units. They just add anything they come up with and hope the game will sell well.
Btw, has anyone thought about what a joke PvZ late game is? The mothership really ruins it for me at least as a spectator. They create their massive armies and it all ends with some bull shit spell that sucks upp the zerg's whole army and two archons destory it shortly afterwards leaving the zerg devastated and the protoss still around 200/200. Actually the fact that the mothership is removed in HoTS is actually really good. I really hope they don't change their mind.
And don't get me started on fungal growth and force field. Talk about boring spells. No real way to micro from it. That really bothers me as well as a spectator. |
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