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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 28 2012 23:54. Posts 2722 | Profile # | |
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 teamhozac April 29 2012 00:13. Posts 404 | Profile # |
Keep using the GSL to look at balance for AN ENTIRE FUCKING COMMUNITY, and you will keep making yourself look like an unintelligent, biased poster |
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| Creager Germany. April 29 2012 00:17. Posts 333 | Profile # |
dumb logic here, the ideal way would be to balance the game so that every race has a chance to score a win, regardless of being early, mid or late-game, if played right... It's just exhausting for Terrans (like me) to always know what's coming (fast expo into maybe relatively fast third -> 200/200 + chrono'd upgrades and until he reaches that point keeps turtlin' like a bo$$) but not being able to use your information to come out on top of it, due to the much higher skill cap (at least in lower leagues, I'm Plat) given by the metagame...
love how often brotosses go to defend my drops by 1-a-moving their whole deathball and how often I'm still not able to win (unless I call 1-1-1 or 3 rax against 1 gate FE or Nexus first), because in the direct confrontation it's still too hard for me to out-micro his a-move with my MMMGV army.
but I also guess, since we don't want every race to feel too similar, it's hard to adjust balance issues without making too drastic changes meta-game-wise... |
| | Lim Yo-hwan for life! |  |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:17. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:13 teamhozac wrote:Keep using the GSL to look at balance for AN ENTIRE FUCKING COMMUNITY, and you will keep making yourself look like an unintelligent, biased poster
lmao, so what should i look at ? gold leaguers records?
Show me a statistics which said PvT is not within 45-55% please. Or even better, show me a record with PvT > 50%. |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:20. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:17 Creager wrote:dumb logic here, the ideal way would be to balance the game so that every race has a chance to score a win, regardless of being early, mid or late-game, if played right... It's just exhausting for Terrans (like me) to always know what's coming (fast expo into maybe relatively fast third -> 200/200 + chrono'd upgrades and until he reaches that point keeps turtlin' like a bo$$) but not being able to use your information to come out on top of it, due to the much higher skill cap (at least in lower leagues, I'm Plat) given by the metagame... love how often brotosses go to defend my drops by 1-a-moving their whole deathball and how often I'm still not able to win (unless I call 1-1-1 or 3 rax against 1 gate FE or Nexus first), because in the direct confrontation it's still too hard for me to out-micro his a-move with my MMMGV army. but I also guess, since we don't want every race to feel too similar, it's hard to adjust balance issues without making too drastic changes meta-game-wise...
Point is, look at the average time spent in that game in my reference.
The average time taken when a terran wins ~= the average time taken when they loses, which to me, it suggests terran can win or lose at any time in the game. |
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| Creager Germany. April 29 2012 00:25. Posts 333 | Profile # |
you know, I think those timings are a result of lot's of strong 2-base timing attacks by Protoss or Terrans failing to do an 1-1-1 (since ~50% of the terran wins in TvP come from this all-in, even at highest level of play).
They are not relevant regarding late-game situations IMOLast edit: 2012-04-29 00:26:26 |
| | Lim Yo-hwan for life! | |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:34. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:25 Creager wrote:
you know, I think those timings are a result of lot's of strong 2-base timing attacks by Protoss or Terrans failing to do an 1-1-1 (since ~50% of the terran wins in TvP come from this all-in, even at highest level of play).
They are not relevant regarding late-game situations IMO
If you have been following the scene, there were actually much less 1-1-1 after patch 1.4.3 ( There were occasions hellion type of 1-1-1 tho, which worked pretty well ). And 1-1-1 dont really take 12minutes to finish ( Which is like 15-20minute in game i believe ). |
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| teamhozac April 29 2012 00:38. Posts 404 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:17 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 00:13 teamhozac wrote:Keep using the GSL to look at balance for AN ENTIRE FUCKING COMMUNITY, and you will keep making yourself look like an unintelligent, biased poster
lmao, so what should i look at ? gold leaguers records? Show me a statistics which said PvT is not within 45-55% please. Or even better, show me a record with PvT > 50%.
The statistics dont exist, because blizzard doesnt release them...
EDIT: PvT on Cloud Kingdom 70% there you go
Last edit: 2012-04-29 00:41:23 |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:42. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:38 teamhozac wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 00:17 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
On April 29 2012 00:13 teamhozac wrote:Keep using the GSL to look at balance for AN ENTIRE FUCKING COMMUNITY, and you will keep making yourself look like an unintelligent, biased poster
lmao, so what should i look at ? gold leaguers records? Show me a statistics which said PvT is not within 45-55% please. Or even better, show me a record with PvT > 50%.
The statistics dont exist, because blizzard doesnt release them, youre a real genius arent you? EDIT: PvT on Cloud Kingdom 70% there you go
What did they release on Page 1 then? Blizzard said the current PvT is within the acceptable zone.
And now TvZ metalopolis 37%, how about nerfing Zerg?
You only sees what you wanna see, do u? |
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| nOondn April 29 2012 00:45. Posts 564 | Profile # |
What a logic lol , like i said terran win more but that doesn't matter ,becuase we talk about "Lategame" TvP and not every game that terran win is in late game situation. |
| | Mid Master Terran @ kr server fighting !!! |  |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:50. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:45 nOondn wrote:What a logic lol , like i said terran win more but that doesn't matter ,becuase we talk about "Lategame" TvP and not every game that terran win is in late game situation.
The problem is, protoss will not be able to even get to the late game if theres significant changes.
And you want 70% TvP win rate so Terran will be able to win in "earlygame", "midgame", "lategame".
And you did not look at all the items shown on the statistics i refered, do you?
Average time for a Terran to lose ~= Average game time for a Terran to win. What does it suggest, genius? It suggests Terran and protoss both can win/lose using the same time span.Last edit: 2012-04-29 00:51:00 |
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| Raygun April 29 2012 00:51. Posts 299 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:42 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
What did they release on Page 1 then? Blizzard said the current PvT is within the acceptable zone.
And now TvZ metalopolis 37%, how about nerfing Zerg?
You only sees what you wanna see, do u?
Eh, those maps just need to be tossed. |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 00:58. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
You guys may think I am biased cause my main race is protoss. I actually play a bit of Terran.
Why is PvT seems so imba in the foreign scene but not so in Korea? Its because foreigners basically do not play as well (mechanically, strategically) imho.
For one, Korean pros can almost sees observers even tho they are cloaked. And everyone knows its easy to snipe obs with 1-2vikings or rines with scans. After sniping the obs, Ghosts are extremely potent units. Cloaking to cast emp/snipe and nuke on multiple prones can get terran ahead even in late late game PvT. But they are just underused. |
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| F1rstAssau1t Mexico. April 29 2012 01:08. Posts 551 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 00:58 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
You guys may think I am biased cause my main race is protoss. I actually play a bit of Terran.
Why is PvT seems so imba in the foreign scene but not so in Korea? Its because foreigners basically do not play as well (mechanically, strategically) imho.
For one, Korean pros can almost sees observers even tho they are cloaked. And everyone knows its easy to snipe obs with 1-2vikings or rines with scans. After sniping the obs, Ghosts are extremely potent units. Cloaking to cast emp/snipe and nuke on multiple prones can get terran ahead even in late late game PvT. But they are just underused.
So if im a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum Terran and i cant even play the 10% that any Korean pro cuz im not playing the game 10 hours at day, i deserve to lose to the Protoss and their ridiculous late game?
Yeah you are biased son. |
| | Hasta la victoria siempre. | |
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| Shiori April 29 2012 01:10. Posts 2815 | Profile Blog # |
On April 29 2012 01:08 F1rstAssau1t wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 00:58 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
You guys may think I am biased cause my main race is protoss. I actually play a bit of Terran.
Why is PvT seems so imba in the foreign scene but not so in Korea? Its because foreigners basically do not play as well (mechanically, strategically) imho.
For one, Korean pros can almost sees observers even tho they are cloaked. And everyone knows its easy to snipe obs with 1-2vikings or rines with scans. After sniping the obs, Ghosts are extremely potent units. Cloaking to cast emp/snipe and nuke on multiple prones can get terran ahead even in late late game PvT. But they are just underused.
So if im a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum Terran and i cant even play the 10% that any Korean pro cuz im not playing the game 10 hours at day, i deserve to lose to the Protoss and their ridiculous late game? Yeah you are biased son.
Same reason why Terrans lose to banelings in the low-leagues: they can't split. No, we're not going to give Marines the ability to auto-split. |
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| Ace1123 Philippines. April 29 2012 01:12. Posts 1117 | Profile # |
That is for pro level man with all the imba Micro, Macro, Multitask that they have. Not all people have them in the lower levels. |
| | ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR, |  |
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| bbQ4Aiur Hong Kong. April 29 2012 01:21. Posts 2722 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 01:12 Ace1123 wrote:That is for pro level man with all the imba Micro, Macro, Multitask that they have. Not all people have them in the lower levels.
So i build keys for auto marine split, auto army concave maintaining, auto emp when HT in distance for you?
Better yet, auto attack when a kill timing detected.
No.
You need to get better, and when ure finally a competent player, leave other things to blizzard.Last edit: 2012-04-29 01:21:14 |
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| densha United States. April 29 2012 01:27. Posts 797 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 01:08 F1rstAssau1t wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 00:58 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
You guys may think I am biased cause my main race is protoss. I actually play a bit of Terran.
Why is PvT seems so imba in the foreign scene but not so in Korea? Its because foreigners basically do not play as well (mechanically, strategically) imho.
For one, Korean pros can almost sees observers even tho they are cloaked. And everyone knows its easy to snipe obs with 1-2vikings or rines with scans. After sniping the obs, Ghosts are extremely potent units. Cloaking to cast emp/snipe and nuke on multiple prones can get terran ahead even in late late game PvT. But they are just underused.
So if im a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum Terran and i cant even play the 10% that any Korean pro cuz im not playing the game 10 hours at day, i deserve to lose to the Protoss and their ridiculous late game? Yeah you are biased son.
Yes, yes, and YES! You do deserve to lose if you're low level! You are allowed to have weaknesses! This game simply cannot afford to be balanced and catered toward low level ladder games. To suggest otherwise is lunacy. What matters is the tip-top of the pro level and that is all. |
| | If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. |  |
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| checkit United States. April 29 2012 01:28. Posts 36 | Profile # |
| Blizzard needs to look at pro play only to balance the game. Balancing the game for ladder play seems incorrect. On ladder it's made so you go 50% anyways so I don't really think balance matters on ladder and losses are due to mistakes/slowness not balance. Last edit: 2012-04-29 01:31:55 |
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| Horseballs United States. April 29 2012 01:32. Posts 721 | Profile # |
On April 29 2012 01:27 densha wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 01:08 F1rstAssau1t wrote:
On April 29 2012 00:58 bbQ4Aiur wrote:
You guys may think I am biased cause my main race is protoss. I actually play a bit of Terran.
Why is PvT seems so imba in the foreign scene but not so in Korea? Its because foreigners basically do not play as well (mechanically, strategically) imho.
For one, Korean pros can almost sees observers even tho they are cloaked. And everyone knows its easy to snipe obs with 1-2vikings or rines with scans. After sniping the obs, Ghosts are extremely potent units. Cloaking to cast emp/snipe and nuke on multiple prones can get terran ahead even in late late game PvT. But they are just underused.
So if im a Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum Terran and i cant even play the 10% that any Korean pro cuz im not playing the game 10 hours at day, i deserve to lose to the Protoss and their ridiculous late game? Yeah you are biased son.
Yes, yes, and YES! You do deserve to lose if you're low level! You are allowed to have weaknesses! This game simply cannot afford to be balanced and catered toward low level ladder games. To suggest otherwise is lunacy. What matters is the tip-top of the pro level and that is all.
But why does the low-level terran deserve to lose and at the same time the low-level protoss deserves to win? |
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