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| Destroyr Germany. May 03 2012 18:19. Posts 298 | Profile # |
On May 03 2012 11:00 SmileZerg wrote:
It's not about being overpowered or underpowered, it's just clumsy design.
Yes.
It is a shame that the game is designed that way. It is in every aspect of it and it hurts to see this. On the other hand you can play different if you see hero playing Toss there is a huge difference to some sort of standart deathball a move play. I am frustrated even from the strength of my own units. Roaches are the most stuppid but biggest gamewinging unit as if Blizzard developed them to counter Protoss twobase timings with even more costefficient timing attacks... or just rally your army in with a move who cares of micro... david kim not i think. |
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| RiPPy Norway. May 03 2012 19:29. Posts 23 | Profile # |
| David Kim is addressing zerg scouting and overlords.... and not a word about tvp..... what a joke, omg hahahaha...comedy |
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| scypio Poland. May 03 2012 19:50. Posts 868 | Profile # |
| NVM Last edit: 2012-05-03 19:55:01 |
| | TLception: balance-whining-whining... and don't comment football games unless your in Champions League! |
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| thepeonwhocould Australia. May 03 2012 20:03. Posts 334 | Profile # |
The truth is, TvP has been balancing on a knife edge for the last few months. Protoss' incredible upgrade and AOE advantages were only held in check by Terran's agressive cheese and timing attacks. Now that Protoss have figured those out, the matchup is in dissarray...
Welcome to the age of Protoss.Last edit: 2012-05-03 20:03:47 |
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| Salteador Neo Andorra. May 04 2012 06:37. Posts 3611 | Profile # |
On May 03 2012 20:03 thepeonwhocould wrote:
The truth is, TvP has been balancing on a knife edge for the last few months. Protoss' incredible upgrade and AOE advantages were only held in check by Terran's agressive cheese and timing attacks. Now that Protoss have figured those out, the matchup is in dissarray...
Welcome to the age of Protoss.
This happens similarly in BW, ages of each race come and go and it's pretty much the most balanced competitive game. |
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| forgotten0ne United States. May 04 2012 07:20. Posts 879 | Profile Blog # |
On May 03 2012 10:55 SmileZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:06 Svendsen wrote:( I have not been able to find this idea yet so here goes !) I have, like mostly many others zergie out there been having some trouble with getting that crucial scouting information which is needed since we are the adaptive race of sc2, even mr David Kim has been addressing this issue. This however have been met with obvious conflict on how blizzard intent to do this, and as far as i can see it comes down to overlord speed. Other races say it will be highly OP if overlord speed could from the hatch itself, even with the cost it has now, reason is that it is an upgrade with little to no downside/risk even that early in the game. This got me thinking, how about if queens got an extra ability which granted an overlord X more speed for X amount of time -> infinite time or so. This ability would however NOT be risk free is it would mess up with creep and inject timings as it could be a 50/50 if this little trick would kill you or not. If you are unlucky, you just used an inject which you needed to hold that all in which are just now coming at you, or you just got saved because you saw that 10x 1 base starport banshee cloak tech inc and now you just got the information you needed. I personally feel like this could mix up the very early game alot since (depending on energy cost) it is a very big decision to make cause queen energy is so very very crucial. thoughts ? could this work ? (btw i'm not born with English grammar so please look past that  )
It's not only horribly inelegant (how many other abilities are there in the game which only have an effect on a single form of unit? None.) but lacking in depth and rendered entirely pointless after the speed upgrade at Lair.
Someone has never played Terran. It's called supply drop bro rofl rofl rofl
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| | "Well it’s obvious that these Terran gamers are just extremely gifted when it comes to RTS games" -Ret, in regards to the first months of SC2 |  |
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| RifleCow Canada. May 04 2012 11:06. Posts 552 | Profile # |
| Way to quick to say anything on TvP rite now. It's only recently that the Protoss domination has been happening. On the other hand, Zerg have been talkin about early game scouting since release. |
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| oMNY.SEA Australia. May 04 2012 21:34. Posts 45 | Profile # |
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm |
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| DeaDoXFighting Canada. May 05 2012 00:50. Posts 114 | Profile # |
| Seems pretty balanced, terran's that whine about protoss beign strong late game (PvT) most of the time these terrans dont drop or dont even try to deal eco damage or tech damage to the protoss, just simply build from both sides, high skilled games aren't played like that you gotta use your race advantages. |
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| bObA France. May 05 2012 00:57. Posts 14 | Profile # |
Don t be so rude omny.sea
the fact is here.
Tvp and tvz late is harder for terran. Imo unbalanced.
Terran has to harass zerg and toss early to avoid that but with all the last nerfs that is quite impossible.
If blizzard wanna only macro games, ok, but gibe terran more abilities in late game.
Cause we have to avoid frontal fight vs death ball and try to drop and it s the same for infedt/bl/ultras very often ( especially since they decrease the snipe ability.)
Imo it s useless to give a faster obs to toss for scout.
They dont need help for doing that, they already have chronoboost.
And do you why they dont scout ? Cause they dont give a fuck what terran is doing. They are upgrading and going colossus/hts and gg for them...
Terran needs imo a rebuff of the snipe to hold late game zerg and a nerf of the feedback to use mech units in late game against toss
that wont be huge changes that doesnt unbalance the game in any direction and in another match up |
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| Greenei Germany. May 05 2012 00:58. Posts 747 | Profile # |
| Why do they want to kill hellionbuilds so damn much? I mean it's impossible to fight queens with hellions if you can't kite them. |
| | IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA |
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| ssake May 05 2012 01:08. Posts 25 | Profile # |
On May 05 2012 00:58 Greenei wrote:
Why do they want to kill hellionbuilds so damn much? I mean it's impossible to fight queens with hellions if you can't kite them.
I was thinking the same, to help zerg spread creep they are hurting mostly reaper openings. Why not make something like hatch can generate one creep tumor near it for only once, or just 1 creep tumor from the start that you can use from the start or have cooldown for the first cast. That would not effect the game any other way than giving zerg more creep. |
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| Rumpus United States. May 05 2012 06:36. Posts 105 | Profile # |
I'd like to see Inject not cost energy, and Queens get a fourth spell, something to be a contender for energy against Creep Tumors. I definitely understand trying to help Zerg early game and get a little more utility out of the Queen spells, but I'd just rather make the Queen a little more interesting, increase strategy potential and flavor, and do no harm to skill demands. I mean even as a Zerg player, 50 energy is a little too much, and the only other alternative is 25. Will be interesting to see how this goes though...
Personally, I never really liked the whole Creep Tumor thing, yeah it is nice and helpful here and there, but it just seems like too much an "after thought" kind of a mechanic. The reward just doesn't meet the time it takes to be extremely aggressive with it. I think time spent focusing on other aspects with in a game are far more important. Just my thoughts. |
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| ThatETmonkey Sweden. May 05 2012 23:32. Posts 8 | Profile # |
Hello David Kim. I am a struggling Terran-player.
Could you please fix your broken game before you ask us to test out your balancechanges thats meant to balance the game at the highest tier?
Remove the energy from the Thor and Battlecruiser. Or did you intend the templar to counter them too? in that case im sorry.
Btw you watch the gsl sometimes mr Kim?
all the best to you and your fellow Protossplayers and casters
/ JohnasLast edit: 2012-05-05 23:33:12 |
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| RavenLoud Canada. May 06 2012 00:05. Posts 1069 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 21:34 oMNY.SEA wrote:
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm
Quote for truth. So much of these posts are just biased garbage. Not to say that the game doesn't have problems as of now, reading these balance thread make me so glad that Blizzard isn't being too rash in listening to the community. In fact I believe it's slowly eroding my faith in democracy.
Which is sad because there are some really good posts that get drowned in a sea of misinformation and ridiculous suggestions that lead to nowhere.
Why don't we get a custom map that can allow users to modify unit stats? It'll at least shut down 95% of the stupidity clogging the forums.
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| Bedrock United States. May 06 2012 13:15. Posts 376 | Profile # |
On May 06 2012 00:05 RavenLoud wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:34 oMNY.SEA wrote:
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm
Quote for truth. So much of these posts are just biased garbage. Not to say that the game doesn't have problems as of now, reading these balance thread make me so glad that Blizzard isn't being too rash in listening to the community. In fact I believe it's slowly eroding my faith in democracy. Which is sad because there are some really good posts that get drowned in a sea of misinformation and ridiculous suggestions that lead to nowhere.Why don't we get a custom map that can allow users to modify unit stats? It'll at least shut down 95% of the stupidity clogging the forums.
Welcome to TeamLiquid forums xD
Last edit: 2012-05-06 13:16:58 |
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| monkybone May 06 2012 14:30. Posts 2877 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 00:08 SupLilSon wrote:
I'm sorry, you can show me select replays for hours and it's not going to change my stance on mech. My standard in TvP outside of 1 rax FE is 1-1-1 cloackshee into a Thor/marine/banshee/scv all in around 16-18 minutes off of 3 base. Totally not viable, yet it works for me at mid masters because NO ONE expects it.
How is this not raped by HT's? The immobility of the thor requires your marines to stay in between and fight, making them very vulnerable to storm. The SCV's as well. The thors can all get feedbacked. The banshees can all get feedbacked. Seems to me that warping in a round of HT's completely counters this. HT is basically the hard-counter to every one of the units in your composition.Last edit: 2012-05-06 14:36:24 |
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| zEnVy United States. May 06 2012 14:42. Posts 445 | Profile # |
On May 04 2012 21:34 oMNY.SEA wrote:
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm
Yup, pressing "w" and then holding "shift+z" and then spamming click the units right into the battlefield is really really hard. |
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| SuperYo1000 United States. May 06 2012 15:11. Posts 717 | Profile # |
On May 06 2012 14:42 zEnVy wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:34 oMNY.SEA wrote:
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm
Yup, pressing "w" and then holding "shift+z" and then spamming click the units right into the battlefield is really really hard.
queing with a unit is 3/4 to 7/8 done building is much more lenient for your macro then with warpgate warp ins. we tried to warp in early?.....wasted apm, warp in late? every unit afterward is that much slower so ya, it is much harder to maintain a precise macro
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| F1rstAssau1t Mexico. May 07 2012 06:37. Posts 559 | Profile # |
On May 06 2012 15:11 SuperYo1000 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 14:42 zEnVy wrote:
On May 04 2012 21:34 oMNY.SEA wrote:
Im 100% sure Blizzard pays alot more attention to certain influential people that know this game really well (Pro's, Casters and their Dev Team) than it does to the ten billion self righteous, opinionated idiots that comb these forums daily just waiting for an opportunity to spout the word imbalance.
"OMG Metalopolis so IMBA TvZ" Yeah well they removed it from the ladder didnt they? First it was too imba against zerg now its too imba for zerg, fuck me - nomatter what blizzard do to try and help all you lot do is fucking complain. Would you rather them go back in time and fix the map so that you can never have experienced such harsh injustice?
"OMG TVP OMG TVP" Im a terran, and ive been accepting the fact that Zerg is strong late game for a long time so i do damage early/mid game and keep them behind. Now, protoss have expensive units that are hard to get up in large numbers early, is it not logical that they have a strong late game army? Sure, its way harder to Micro the terran army but its a hell of a lot easier to build one. Without completely ruining things blizzard need to be extremely goddamn careful how they implement any changes that will effect how the TvP late game armies clash, especially considering that besides slightly imbalanced micro requirements in late game armies the matchup is pretty damn balanced. What im more annoyed with is the countless pages of people spouting their very very valuable opinion on how "lame" it is that the professionals who made and have balanced this game well up until now didnt decide to talk about TvP for whatever reason. They could be waiting to see if you idiots actually come up with a way to combat the deathball before they start nerfing things, surely you know what its like to have stuff nerfed just because people havent learnt how to deal with it/use it properly (being a terran). Just get over yourselves, you dont know best. I bet a very small percentage of you have actually sat down and tried something -new- to deal with protoss in the late game, you just sit around regurgitating whatever X pro said while he was on tilt while waiting to see if Y pro comes up with a way to deal with the situation. How about try something new and maybe enjoy the game while you try it? Play for a mid game win, try adding in reapers, try switching vikings for banshees until you are 120% sure its not viable, try and drop the templar archives repeatedly without mercy to slow them down, do a 20 bunker push across the map to deny his AoE damage then choke him down and starve him out. Try something, do anything besides whinging and whining for 65 pages. And if that didnt work, well, give up or shut up unless you have anything with substance to say, because you are just making it harder to sift through and find the posts that are worth reading.
TLDR: "OMG im so PISSED coz they didnt talk bout XXXXX"
Thanks heaps for sharing that valuable opinion./sarcasm
Yup, pressing "w" and then holding "shift+z" and then spamming click the units right into the battlefield is really really hard.
queing with a unit is 3/4 to 7/8 done building is much more lenient for your macro then with warpgate warp ins. we tried to warp in early?.....wasted apm, warp in late? every unit afterward is that much slower so ya, it is much harder to maintain a precise macro
Haha what a joke, Protoss macro is so easy pressing W is not hard at all.
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