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| Ace United States. May 01 2012 08:16. Posts 13535 | Profile Blog # |
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up? |
| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 01 2012 08:19. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts?
Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans. |
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| Cephiro Finland. May 01 2012 08:19. Posts 662 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote:Cephiro:Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this:
Show nested quote +I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass.
You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you.
I honestly think all the plan discussion in D1 has been stupid. I do not see people agreeing in as quickly as 24-48 hours, and it serves as a great cloak for scum, as it derails the conversation to people jabbing at each other about an optimal way of trying to game the game with voting strategies, instead of hunting the scum.
Lets say someone finally came up with a plan that everyone magically agreed on. Now, what will you do with it if you've found no scum?
Just because I did not publicly share my reads with syllo does mean I haven't done it with anyone else. PM Land is a wonderful place to be in. If I don't trust syllo, why should I give him my reads? And making up false reads in the threads is just something that someone would point out as an contradiction by PMs later, and then bad townies would be jumping all over the fact and be distracted from the actual work that needs to be done.
As I've said a trillion times before, do not try to metagame me. If you try, you've already lost. |
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| prplhz Denmark. May 01 2012 08:20. Posts 3926 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting no to get into the minority.
FYI.
See how fucking stupid this plan is?
^^
Try "I'm voting yes to follow the plan" and then "See how fucking awesome this plan is?"
On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
Who said anything about it being determined by 1 player? It's always been Palmar, syllogism and Radfield and I doubt anybody would complain if you wanted Foolishness in there instead or whoever really.
What does "give up their individual brilliance" even mean? |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 01 2012 08:20. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts? Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans.
except the voting is secret and you have no way of holding people to their vote!
Not to mention since round A ends soon this plan is absolutely worthless for today anyway. |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 01 2012 08:20. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting no to get into the minority.
FYI.
See how fucking stupid this plan is?
^^
*sigh*
You are becoming Blazinghand v2 right now. |
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| Katina United States. May 01 2012 08:20. Posts 454 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:04 Cephiro wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:00 Katina wrote:
The mafia team will always be voting in the 2 to 1 method.
Most likely, yes. Always, no. I can very well see all 3 mafia members voting for the same option, especially in the early game. A vote or two from a few random townies that have been deceived in PM-Land (or even worse, publically in thread), tadah. No worries.
There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance.
Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up. |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 01 2012 08:20. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:20 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm voting no to get into the minority.
FYI.
See how fucking stupid this plan is?
^^
Try "I'm voting yes to follow the plan" and then "See how fucking awesome this plan is?"
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
Who said anything about it being determined by 1 player? It's always been Palmar, syllogism and Radfield and I doubt anybody would complain if you wanted Foolishness in there instead or whoever really. What does "give up their individual brilliance" even mean?
WHOOSH |
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| Ace United States. May 01 2012 08:24. Posts 13535 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts? Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans.
I haven't even read my role PM, what makes you think I'm gonna give your posts any attention?
![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/roll.gif) |
| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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| Cephiro Finland. May 01 2012 08:24. Posts 662 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:20 prplhz wrote:
Who said anything about it being determined by 1 player? It's always been Palmar, syllogism and Radfield and I doubt anybody would complain if you wanted Foolishness in there instead or whoever really.
What does "give up their individual brilliance" even mean?
So, if your way of playing TL Mafia is sheeping Palmar, syllo and Radfield whenever they are in the game, cool. Mine isn't.
On May 01 2012 08:20 Katina wrote:
There's no reason for Mafia to take that chance. You really think they can decieve people in PM's like that? Have you been deceived in PMs like that? People are flipping coins to decide votes, and I doubt anyone is actually listening to Palmar. Three votes for the same option is to obviously, especially so early where people are extra paranoid. They would try to leave a little of a connection as possible to each other. With that said, there is no reason mafia would take that chance.
Thus we can always expect the 2-1 split. Then it's just a matter of looking at who is voting for whom and matching people up.
Lets assume there are gullible players like you that "know" there is a 2-1 split coming. Lets assume that the mafia may take a very minor early risk, and all vote themselves to the majority to look better in the long run.
Then these gullible players that are sure of the 2-1 split have already been mislead. Win. |
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Radfield  Canada. May 01 2012 08:24. Posts 2680 | Profile # |
As I said, if everyone is in a pissing match it doesn't work.
Do you agree to the premises I laid out in my post above VE?
Lets imagine we WERE using the plan though, and our 5 or 6 townies were on one side, and you(and only you) decided to jump in. You have now made yourself a target for vigilantes, as well as spotlighted yourself to more intense scrutiny. I'm ok with that, especially if you are scum. Either way, we still have plenty of targets on the majority side.
Lets imagine that several people decide to jump onto the minority side, such that the minority switches to the majority. Excellent! We now a pool of 5 or 6 townies, and 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers. Obviously the townies will get saved(easy to co-ordinate that), and we lynch into the 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers.
I really am not seeing the downside here. |
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| Radfield Canada. May 01 2012 08:25. Posts 2680 | Profile # |
| ^that was to VE. You guys are spamming the thread. Please don't post unless you are going to contribute. |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 01 2012 08:28. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:19 Cephiro wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:10 gonzaw wrote:Cephiro:Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=183812http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#84http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034¤tpage=5#87I found this odd, because you started very aggresively. There were some good plans (mine) floating around, and you behemently opposed them. The point is that you didn't come up with any of your own or try to generate any other discussion. You inserted doubt into plans and just bickered about them, you didn't come up with content of your own. Well, maybe honestly you thought those plans were bad, so that in itself wouldn't bother me. However, you post this:
I'm not expecting to see gamebreaking strategies (especially ensuring as making them work flawlessly is quite hard), so please concentrate on finding the scum instead of trying to come up with some epic plan. And don't get greedy. If we find someone that we are sure to be scum, then do everything possible to get that person killed or lynched. If we try to get greedy and be smartasses and try to lynch three scum at once, it'll most likely bite ourselves in the ass.
You are giving the usual "People stop discussing policy lynches/plans/shit and start finding scum!", yet I don't see you following your own advice. When someone asked you for your reads, you said "At the moment I am afraid to tell you I have no reason to share my reads with you.". What? You said we should try and find scum, but you don't want to contribute your reads? You started very aggressive and "keen" to find scum, but you were inactive for some time later and when you came back you didn't put any effort into doing so. I know how you can play as town Cephiro, I observed Death Factory and you were contributing and making plans like crazy. Being this aggresive and indifferent to plans is unlike you.
I honestly think all the plan discussion in D1 has been stupid. I do not see people agreeing in as quickly as 24-48 hours, and it serves as a great cloak for scum, as it derails the conversation to people jabbing at each other about an optimal way of trying to game the game with voting strategies, instead of hunting the scum.
So why not create discussion about something else? Why not contribute in other manners? Why not doing anything productive other than bickering against every single plan being discussed and then disappearing from the face of the earth?
Also like I said, I don't see you being this "opposed" to plans. I read Death Factory and you were making plans all over the place. I don't believe you when you say "I honestly think all D1 plan discussions are stupid".
Lets say someone finally came up with a plan that everyone magically agreed on. Now, what will you do with it if you've found no scum?
How about BOTH making a plan and finding scum?
I'm trying to find scum and I think I found 2, so how can you tell me I'm doing otherwise?
You can't seriously oppose plans because you think nobody will find scum. The plans come 2nd in finding scum, they've always been, so you can't seriously use that to justify your hatred against plans.
Just because I did not publicly share my reads with syllo does mean I haven't done it with anyone else. PM Land is a wonderful place to be in. If I don't trust syllo, why should I give him my reads? And making up false reads in the threads is just something that someone would point out as an contradiction by PMs later, and then bad townies would be jumping all over the fact and be distracted from the actual work that needs to be done.
As I've said a trillion times before, do not try to metagame me. If you try, you've already lost.
You should give reads in the thread.
You may not trust syllo, but surely you trust all townies right?
If you post your reads in the thread you are 100% guaranteed THAT ALL TOWNIES WILL READ THEM.
Even so, if you are doing this all in PM land, why did you say before that you will only use PMs to answer questions and stuff?
Why would you make up "false reads" in the thread? Wut?
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 01 2012 08:28. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
The end result is almost exactly the same as just ignoring round A.
If you will "save those specific townies" regardless of what side they appear on, then there's no reason at all to make an elaborate plan to try to put them in the minority in the first place. |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 01 2012 08:30. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:24 Radfield wrote:
As I said, if everyone is in a pissing match it doesn't work.
Do you agree to the premises I laid out in my post above VE?
Lets imagine we WERE using the plan though, and our 5 or 6 townies were on one side, and you(and only you) decided to jump in. You have now made yourself a target for vigilantes, as well as spotlighted yourself to more intense scrutiny. I'm ok with that, especially if you are scum. Either way, we still have plenty of targets on the majority side.
Lets imagine that several people decide to jump onto the minority side, such that the minority switches to the majority. Excellent! We now a pool of 5 or 6 townies, and 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers. Obviously the townies will get saved(easy to co-ordinate that), and we lynch into the 4 or 5 scummy ship-jumpers.
I really am not seeing the downside here.
EBWOP that previous post was to Radfield.
Also if we try to form a minority plan for day 1 it can be abused by scum. As you yourself said, either way we'd save those particular townies. However if we don't have a minority plan then there is no way for scum to force themselves into the minority.
In fact it's all just a massive waste of time because, as you said, regardless of where they appear, the scummy people will be targetted and the townish ones will not be. |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 01 2012 08:31. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
The end result is almost exactly the same as just ignoring round A.
If you will "save those specific townies" regardless of what side they appear on, then there's no reason at all to make an elaborate plan to try to put them in the minority in the first place.
The point of my plan is to get scummy people into the majority rather than townie people into the minority (although that helps).
You do that by having people vote who are their strongest scum reads, and let those be in the majority.
What's wrong with that?
@Radfield: What do you think about the plan I mentioned? |
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| Radfield Canada. May 01 2012 08:31. Posts 2680 | Profile # |
On May 01 2012 08:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote:
No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts?
Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans.
except the voting is secret and you have no way of holding people to their vote! Not to mention since round A ends soon this plan is absolutely worthless for today anyway.
Of course you can hold people to their votes. If you say you are going to vote YES, and then vote NO, it's pretty easy to hold someone to their vote...
On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
Lets imagine all town followed a plan of putting the most pro-town players on the minority, and everyone else on the majority. Where does that plan go wrong? |
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| Radfield Canada. May 01 2012 08:37. Posts 2680 | Profile # |
Your plan is fine Gonzaw and it is remarkably similar in result to what I'm talking about. I'd be fine following it, though I think it's less elegant and a bit more unwieldy than what I'm talking about.
Either way, people are acting like the chance to co-operate has already passed us by(which for Day 1 round 1 it has presumably) and that any attempt to work together is futile. I can't imagine why any townie would hold that opinion.
Bugs, lets take this to PMs |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 01 2012 08:37. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
On May 01 2012 08:31 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
On May 01 2012 08:19 gonzaw wrote:
No, I said that the method for creating this pool should be done by the whole town with the Voting system I specified. Can you at least read my posts?
Also, I want you guys opinion on chaoser and Cephiro, we need to find scum too, not just talk about plans.
except the voting is secret and you have no way of holding people to their vote! Not to mention since round A ends soon this plan is absolutely worthless for today anyway.
Of course you can hold people to their votes. If you say you are going to vote YES, and then vote NO, it's pretty easy to hold someone to their vote...
not really.
All someone has to do is disagree with the plan. As I said earlier it takes like 4-5 dissenters for the plan to be useless. There are far more than that in the thread already. Thus no, you can't hold people to their votes because they'll just end up voting however they want to. You can try to force them to vote a certain way but if they dissent with the plan you'll have no idea what they're voting.
On May 01 2012 08:31 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:16 Ace wrote:
K so the plan just needs a majority of Town to give up their individual brilliance, sheep a Yes/No vote and form a new pool of suspects: Except the method of creating this pool should be determined by 1 player.
Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?
Lets imagine all town followed a plan of putting the most pro-town players on the minority, and everyone else on the majority. Where does that plan go wrong?
It goes wrong in that it's nearly impossible for that plan to be manipulation-proof.
All it takes is one scum to be in that circle and it's wrecked. You need one person to do what I did in SS mafia. |
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| Radfield Canada. May 01 2012 08:37. Posts 2680 | Profile # |
| EBWOP: Bugs' lets take this to PMs so we don't spam up the thread going back and forth. |
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