| syllogism Finland. May 02 2012 19:51. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| BC when did you send in your 4 sheth votes and why? |
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| Palmar Iceland. May 02 2012 19:52. Posts 7585 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 19:51 syllogism wrote:
BC when did you send in your 4 sheth votes and why?
Seeing as there is not a single mention of Sheth in your filter it seems like a pretty random decision to dump so much on him. |
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| Palmar Iceland. May 02 2012 19:57. Posts 7585 | Profile Blog # |
On April 30 2012 23:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I give props for palmar thinking of a plan, I shake my head as its not a good one.
lol, I got a pat on the back for doing badly! how nice of you BC. ♥ |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 21:42. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 19:35 Palmar wrote:
BC/Ace, can you explain why you decided to go for "No" in the first question? It was apparent that despite people not listening to me, yes was going to be the majority. Did you have a particular fear that being on the majority side would end up getting you killed?
I had voted 2 hours into the day. Well before any plans had ever been discussed about. Why? Because my work days early week can easily prevent me from being home in time to vote and being able to find time to use my phone for it also isn't guarenteed.
As for why I voted sheth? I discussed my votes with wbg before I placed my votes to ensure that only the two people the majority of people wanted to get lynched would be the only ones that could be lynched. As for you guys. Stop expecting me to be online between midnight - 8am est time. The only reasons I am ever awake that early are to go to work and I will never wake up with enough time to invest into a mafia game on those days. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| Palmar Iceland. May 02 2012 22:25. Posts 7585 | Profile Blog # |
So do you have a solid town read on Sheth? Do you have a solid town read on WBG? And feel free to answer my questions on your own time, I never said I expected you to be awake at night, just don't expect me to be awake at night to post questions for you.
Why did you sign up if you didn't have time to play the game? Do you really think that being around for the first 2 hours of every phase is enough? You're going to be held accountable for what you do.
I actually don't believe that in the remaining 22 hours of the first phase you never found the time to change your "no" to "yes", thus I'm going to be working under the assumption you did it intentionally. I need to figure out why.
Can you give me your top 3 town and scum reads? |
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| Palmar Iceland. May 02 2012 22:26. Posts 7585 | Profile Blog # |
| especially given the fact you still had time to attack my plan, much later than 2 hours into the game, although you did disappear after you decided my plan was bad because you don't approve of that being how to play the game or something equally irrelevant. |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 22:45. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:25 Palmar wrote:
So do you have a solid town read on Sheth? Do you have a solid town read on WBG? And feel free to answer my questions on your own time, I never said I expected you to be awake at night, just don't expect me to be awake at night to post questions for you.
Why did you sign up if you didn't have time to play the game? Do you really think that being around for the first 2 hours of every phase is enough? You're going to be held accountable for what you do.
I actually don't believe that in the remaining 22 hours of the first phase you never found the time to change your "no" to "yes", thus I'm going to be working under the assumption you did it intentionally. I need to figure out why.
Can you give me your top 3 town and scum reads?
I am unsure of sheth and bugs was compiling a list of voters to ensure that the only two to be lynched were going to be VE and roba. Nothing roba has done has swayed me in believing that he is town so I was fine with his lynch. I had mixed reservations about VE but as they were the only two on the docket I made sure no one else got random lynched due to lack of votes.
As for signing up if I don't have enough time? I have been around directly after phases begin, and 2ish hours before the phase ends. Given that my work schedule is one that typically 4 out of 7 days in a week I can have solid amount of time to do things then It is no issue. As for signing up if I don't have time to play? You do not need to invest your life into a game of mafia to have time to play it.
As for changing my vote? All votes are absolute and may not be changed according to the OP. No reason to believe that incog or ver is lying about that. I am glad that you intentionally view people negatively who follow what the hosts say though.
As for top scum reads?
Katina, prpl, and roba.
Town reads are near useless to post so I won't bother. The game is about finding mafia not finding town. You merely get the advantage of the second as you start lynching / vigi'ing mafia. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 22:52. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:26 Palmar wrote:
especially given the fact you still had time to attack my plan, much later than 2 hours into the game, although you did disappear after you decided my plan was bad because you don't approve of that being how to play the game or something equally irrelevant.
No plan in a setup as this should put all the power into the hands of one player. Period. You deciding who warrants lynch protection and who doesn't is not something I at all feel comfortable in. Anyone with half a brain would realize this as well. With the amount of kickback you had to your plan even you should have realized it was flawed. I should not have to go into massive detail to rehash what multiple other people have said.
But here it is for you
Any plan that puts one person whos alignment is hidden (as in no one truely knows your alignment but you) in a setup that is heavily weighted to put an emphasis on manipulation by town and both mafia families to control who ends up in majority / minority and then figuring out lynches and avoiding massive death in one of those lynches should never have 1 singular person dictating the information.
Who cares if you are "responsible" if something bad happens. If something horrific happens town may never be able to recover because of how long it took to realize you fail leading / are red. Ace has said relevant things aside from his spam. This setup is one where you need to be an individual moreso than normal as every single person is going to be more likely to push an agenda. You had a very anti town approach given the setup of this game. Why would I ever follow that? Show me how your plan's pros outweigh the con's. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| Palmar Iceland. May 02 2012 22:53. Posts 7585 | Profile Blog # |
I wasn't aware that you couldn't change votes.
This game is absolutely about finding townies, it's the best way to increase your chances of hitting mafia.
Why do you think Ace is making sense? You mentioned him specifically making sense in one of your posts. I don't see him as making sense at all, I see him as worthless at best, scum at worst.
You still haven't explained what you meant by giving me props for making a bad plan. I could see that working for a new player, where you expect them to fail, but their enthusiasm means they probably are town, but do you honestly think that if I created a plan that is bad for us, I did so unintentionally?
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 23:17. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 22:53 Palmar wrote:
I wasn't aware that you couldn't change votes.
This game is absolutely about finding townies, it's the best way to increase your chances of hitting mafia.
Why do you think Ace is making sense? You mentioned him specifically making sense in one of your posts. I don't see him as making sense at all, I see him as worthless at best, scum at worst.
You still haven't explained what you meant by giving me props for making a bad plan. I could see that working for a new player, where you expect them to fail, but their enthusiasm means they probably are town, but do you honestly think that if I created a plan that is bad for us, I did so unintentionally?
You had people coming out in support almost as soon as you posted it. IE you obviously talked it through with people. It is quite possible you were convinced it was a good plan with their help or they opted to not inform you as it was good for them and not you.
I said you have props for trying to organize the day into something non chaotic. Your plan was bad, but the try was there. Do I think this means you are town? no. I find it very likely that either yourself or one of the people you talk to closely is most likely red given how anti town your idea was.
As for finding townies? If someone acts scummy you analyze them and if you still feel confident in that read you lynch/shoot them.
The only role in this game who spending time finding townies is not horrible is a dt as every confirmed alignment "stress on confirmed" is important. Short of death or being a dt no one can ever confirm your alignment. You can assume someone is town and operate off that idea however that does not mean your read is accurate. It is far simpler to operate on the "i am town and until I find and kill the mafia I will view everyone else as red" As people start dying you're reads alter slightly and people have more likelyhood of being town over red based off their choices and thus become people you won't push unless things change. They could still easily be red.
By concentrating on finding townies as well as mafia you are spending the game day 1 before deaths attempting to correctly identify 17 other players instead of correctly trying to identify 6. You can put more time and energy towards finding the scum if you concentrate on looking for them as opposed to concentrating looking for town.
IMO if you are not a dt the only people concerned with figuring out a townie instead of a mafia in this setup is in fact mafia as they need to know who their competition is to eliminate whereas town just needs to kill reds. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 23:18. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
| Also for someone attacking the time or commitment I have to this game, while not knowing the rules is pretty assholish given that one of your attacks was based on that rule. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| syllogism Finland. May 02 2012 23:19. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| No the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia and he isn't. If you can't tell that he is town by now, that is your own failure but does not make the plan bad. If you analyzing the game and not finding townies, you are playing very, very wrong. |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 23:28. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
On May 02 2012 23:19 syllogism wrote:
No the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia and he isn't. If you can't tell that he is town by now, that is your own failure but does not make the plan bad. If you analyzing the game and not finding townies, you are playing very, very wrong.
I analyze people and put them in the "unlikely to be mafia at this time" category.
As for the plan is only bad if the person in charge is mafia? incorrect. If he is mafia, believes one of his advisors is town who is mafia, if he is bad, etc...
All make it bad. This game is designed in such a way via the voting mechanism that the mafia are going to be far more pro active than most other games. This means they are almost certainly going to be more active in either thread or pm's to manipulate townies / find the other family and get control of as many votes as possible.
Why would I at anytime trust people who put forth a plan that requires me to take their word at "its ok guys im legit" essentially.
Until someone flips you cannot know 100% that they are town. You can think the chances of them being it are higher than being scum, but that doesn't make them guarenteed town. It is far easier to just assume everyone is red and narrow down on specific players based on behaviour/performance. Once the reds are dead the town wins and you then know who is town. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| syllogism Finland. May 02 2012 23:30. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post, but I don't have to be 100% sure, something like 95% will do just fine and is sufficient to justify any plan that requires him to be town most of the time. |
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| BloodyC0bbler Canada. May 02 2012 23:32. Posts 6662 | Profile Blog # |
| regardless, i am now off to work, be back in ilke 6-7 hours. |
| | #3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go ! |
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| sandroba Brazil. May 03 2012 02:05. Posts 3115 | Profile # |
| I caught up and I see a lot of people expecting a "defense" from me. I have no defense, since there is nothing against me besides being inactive, which I was due to being holiday here and I went out, spend time with friends, etc. If you guys read the thread and get this idea out of your head that I must be mafia for being inactive, you will see I am confirmed town. Not a single soul in this game had any problems killing me or even mentioned I was town even when I was being active. Now if we can move on to finding scum that would be awesome. My early reads were MZ an Sheth were likely scum. MZ because of the way he entered the thread in his first posts and Sheth for supporting the plan for no particular reason, just to fit in. I don't believe he would have a solid read on palmar at that point (played with him very little and I don't believe he read a bunch of games for this sole reason) and didn't even want to create max minority, so I can't see why he would support him blindly. |
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| Katina United States. May 03 2012 02:18. Posts 454 | Profile # |
| You are inactive therefore you are confirmed town? That never works out too well for me. You must have special powers :O |
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| syllogism Finland. May 03 2012 02:23. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| Hey katina I see you are lurking, got anything worthwhile to contribute? Are you still interested in lynching the most obvious townie in the game? Been PMing anyone? |
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| Katina United States. May 03 2012 02:32. Posts 454 | Profile # |
On May 03 2012 02:23 syllogism wrote:
Hey katina I see you are lurking, got anything worthwhile to contribute? Are you still interested in lynching the most obvious townie in the game? Been PMing anyone?
I'm working on it, patience is key. By most obvious townie I'm assuming you mean Palmar? He's on my suspicion list still. I'm sure you will be the first to know if that changes. Of course I have been PM'ing people. Hasn't everyone? |
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| syllogism Finland. May 03 2012 02:46. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| I've to say that I'm pretty surprised that none of the smart people who were around when VE claimed to have given all his votes to sandroba did nothing to save him. It is very unlikely for mafia to do that, even lying about it was rather pointless, given the circumstances. Cephiro had announced relatively early that he was giving some votes to VE, while no one had claimed to have given any to sandroba. |
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