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| syllogism Finland. May 08 2012 04:32. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
| If you have to vote and leave before wbg gets here, vote according to the plan and PM wbg that you did |
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 Liquid`Sheth United States. May 08 2012 04:34. Posts 2025 | Profile Blog # |
On May 08 2012 04:25 syllogism wrote:
Feel free to consult the rules of the game. Trolling and intentionally making people believe you are mafia by saying things that are manifestly wrong is according to any reasonable interpretation of the rule playing against your win con and worth a modkill/ban. It is basically the worst thing you can do in mafia aside form blatant cheating.
Here syllogism let me help you by finding the rules.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
I'm actually trying my best to help my team win. You just can't see it. The three things you have against me is that I said I'd put 5 on Cephiro and then never did, I defended BC who was mafia and I haven't been really active in finding scum. Great I lied to gain information, I defeneded someone I thought was probably innocent and if you notice I have been pointing at both Gonzaw and you.
So I'm pretty sure I'm trying here. You on the other hand are skirting two rules. One that you should discuss bans after the game, which technically saying you want someone banned if they are town is doing that. And at least for me you're making it so I want to just flip my card which is something I rarely feel, but I suppose you could be mafia which is what I've been saying so I guess I'm ok with it.
Anyway thats what I see. So if you can't see that I'm trying as a townie and want to request a ban after feel free. Just realize I am trying and its you who are just simply not as good as you think you are, unless you're mafia in which case gj syllo, you'll win by causing anger. For the rest of you, get ready for this sort of behavior once I'm done. I suppose you'll kill Cephiro next, I have no idea if he is town or mafia, but after that gl with syllo guys. I'd hoped more of you would be against this sort of play, but I haven't been defending myself well apparently.
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| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 08 2012 04:36. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
| =/ no ban discussion please... sheth syllo, come on. we're gentlemen. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Liquid`Sheth United States. May 08 2012 04:36. Posts 2025 | Profile Blog # |
On May 08 2012 04:26 prplhz wrote:
you should calm down syllo whatever he did i'm sure he's either scum or he didn't do it on purpose
Well thanks for that. <3 Prplhz |
| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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| syllogism Finland. May 08 2012 04:38. Posts 5337 | Profile # |
How can you honestly believe in everything you said here, it seems completely impossible
I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw.
If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia.
I'm saying I decided you weren't mafia because you were scum hunting in a good fashion going after people not necessarily me in general. But I realize now as Mafia you'd be wanting to do the same thing. It actually kind of messes up my reads on everyone and ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest, because mafia should really be trying to clean out the other house quite a lot.
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| EchelonTee United States. May 08 2012 04:38. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
My case on Sheth got buried on the last page, take a look if you missed it.
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 08 2012 04:31 EchelonTee wrote:RE: Case on ShethMy PM convo with Sheth, along with certain in-thread actions make me think he's scum, not even taking into account the recent dip in posting. PMs with Sheth (mostly D1/N1):+ Show Spoiler +
Original Message From EchelonTee: Who do you want to be lynched today? I want VE to be lynched.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I'm definitely fine with a VE lynch, he is playing completely diffierent then he normally does. I'm also ok with Sandroba who I think is slightly weird. I don't have too great of a read on anyone at this point in time. Just going with gut feels at the moment. how about you?>
Original Message From EchelonTee: Really o.O? Because you said earlier that you were going to give a vote to VE. Did you already send in that vote? Why did you think he was worthy of giving a vote earlier, and what changed? I already said that I want VE to be lynched, for reasons I posted in thread. I also think prplhz looks pretty bad, but I'll wait for him to get his feet off the ground, as he said he is still catching up.
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Eh I like VE. We've played a lot together so I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I just think his play is so different that its not even worth me defending him. I sent in my votes, 0 were for VE. I sent 4 Cephiro // 1 Meapak. I haven't heard much at all from prplhz other then every day hes townie. o o
Original Message From EchelonTee: What do you mean by "haven't heard much from prplhz other than every day he's townie"? I don't quite get that. Any reason why you think M_Z deserves a vote? I think he's pretty townie too, but you should probably post reasoning in thread or something. Though a lot of the vets don't seem to value transparency enough, it helps town a lot as such.
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth:
Oh I remember reading where prplhz said something like this is my 16th time in a row of being a townie. So I just made a reference to every day I'm shuffling.
Then yea I geuss I should explain meapak, but its really just a feel and how he has reponded to inquiries. =)
I bolded the parts that I found significant. Sheth is continuously wishy washy and non-committal during the early portion of the game, and it shows in his PMs. While not having solid monster reads early isn't a crime, it's strange that he has 2 apparent scum reads (VE/Sandroba), but sounds like he doesn't have a genuine opinion on them. When I poke him for supporting VE then jumping ship and calling for his lynch, his response is again really strange. Instead of saying "I think he's scum for his different playstyle", he says "it's not even worth me defending him". Call me a nitpicker, but it's as though Sheth as ready to let VE die because it's not worth anything to him, when it would make more sense of he wanted VE to die for thinking he is scum. I already pointed out earlier how your reasoning for thinking VE was different ("he's not being as quiet and conserved") was utterly wrong, and sounded fabricated. Lastly, asking about his view on M_Z he still just has "feels" on how the game is. Once again, this isn't inherently scummy, but the tone in which he says this makes him sound like he has no genuine reads. If he was approaching the game from a town perspective, he would have direct reasons for thinking this person is scum or that person is town.
Some of your posts mentioning Cephiro/BC/syllogism don't make much sense.
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
I haven't been reading too too closely, but the fact that Cephiro put 4 votes on VE makes him look a small percentage better. Cephiro is still probably one of my top candidates for being town. As for being mafia I'm really unsure other then Gonzaw. Syllo scares me, and I scare him so I suppose there could be something there.
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:56 Liquid`Sheth wrote:I liked him a lot early on, and I'm still ok with him. I wanted him to be more active in PM'ing me back, but I'll take what I can get. I'm about 50/50 on him right now. I imagine with more time I'll get to know a lot better. I haven't had a ton of time to just sit and analyze his posts either. I do imagine if hes mafia I wont' live too much longer anyway. So just my thoughts at the moment 
You say Cephiro is one of your top candidates for town at 6:12, then at 11:56 you say you're only 50/50 on him? Just because he didn't PM you that much? That doesn't seem like a substantial reason to change your mind. And I don't get why you said "I do imagine if he's mafia I won't live too much longer". You were like one of his only supporters, why would he shoot you? So does the fact that you not dying mean he's town? That statement is just ??? When questioned for your reasoning, it's seems like you don't have any legitimate basing.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Ok after reading through BC's filter I like him. He has strong reads on Katina (whose I have a life defense I thought kind of lame). And I haven't looked at prplhz, but he has a read on him as well.
I actually appreciate him not trusting Palmagism. As I'm somewhat in that same vote except I only distrust the gism part. So I don't mind Cephiro defending BC because earlier BC defended Cephiro. I'm still at around 50/50 for Cephiro btw.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 12:16 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Yea.. well done Syllo / Palmar in finding BC!
So you thought BC was town b/c 1. had a read on Katina 2. had a read on prplhz 3. didn't trust Palmagism. The first two points don't make any sense because you haven't expressed that you think Katina/prplhz are scum. The third sort of makes sense (that you would trust Palmar and not syllo), but you don't explain why. Besides, there have been a number of people who were against the conglomarate, such as M_Z and chaoser at different points in time. How does that opposition make BC look town? I dunno, you never explained. Later, when BC flipped scum, your congratualtory post just made me LoL. After saying that BC is town and that syllo is likely scum, when the night post comes and you are completely wrong, you respond to the night post with "gj palmagism!" so now syllo is town in your book? since you give him cred along with Palmar for the BC kill, even though Foolishness was probably the primary pusher (and died for it). you continually shift your attitude towards syllo for not very legit reasons. Gonzaw already mentioned why this batch of reads is a load of non-commital fakiness. Go see.Knowing you to be an intelligent guy, I don't think the explanation to these accusations can just be "oh I just didn't have legit reasoning for doing all these things". It just looks like you're scum.
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| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Liquid`Sheth United States. May 08 2012 04:43. Posts 2025 | Profile Blog # |
On May 08 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote:How can you honestly believe in everything you said here, it seems completely impossible
Show nested quote +I've figured out why I'm being targeted like this btw.
If you are mafia you actually want to kill other mafia. So that makes sense that syllo's mafia play would still be this hunting really badly for the other house. Anyway I'm town, and I think my flip will actually help town more then anything else I can do because you guys seem to just assume I'm mafia regardless of what I say. Look at Gonzaw the kid has a good chance of being mafia.
Show nested quote +I'm saying I decided you weren't mafia because you were scum hunting in a good fashion going after people not necessarily me in general. But I realize now as Mafia you'd be wanting to do the same thing. It actually kind of messes up my reads on everyone and ironically those who aren't really caring about finding mafia are probably the towniest or just the laziest, because mafia should really be trying to clean out the other house quite a lot.
I geuss you don't realize the different mind set caused by this different game style? In a normal mafia game there is TOWN and there is MAFIA and sometimes there is 3RD PARTY. Mafia then has to deal with town + 3rd party, or in most cases just TOWN. So in this game we know there are two seperate mafia. So its a different mindset where its like we have a bunch of 3rd party, only even more different because they are mafia instead of 3rd party. Basically mafia will even be able to "kill themselves" to make themselves look more townie. This isn't possible when mafia kill 3rd party, because its seperate.
So what I'm saying there is that as mafia you're actually playing for a town.. except your town is called mafia. You're just a seperate group of people that also want to kill mafia. EVERYONE wants to kill mafia, that is their wincon. So in this game its going to feel like everyone is town. I'm just saying there that those who aren't even caring about finding mafia won't nessecarily be mafia themselves, they'll simply be the lazy whether they be town or mafia. Thats how I can believe in that, and yes I know you think its impossible. You seem to have a short vision for that sort of thing. |
| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 08 2012 04:53. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # |
I'm fine with the prplhz plan; my only reservation is that meapak may be town but it seems more unlikely as the game goes on.
I'll be voting according to it
(sorry; not much time today for me.)
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| EchelonTee United States. May 08 2012 04:59. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
| wait, are we for sure following prplhz plan? |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| wherebugsgo United States. May 08 2012 05:01. Posts 7931 | Profile Blog # | |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 08 2012 05:05. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
| Well, whatever I'm going to take a test in a few minutes and be back before the deadline, I won't vote until then just in case. |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 08 2012 05:28. Posts 4149 | Profile Blog # |
I will be putting all of my votes on WBG. I had initially been planning on voting how WBG told me to, however since he's going to follow the prplhz plan rather than create his own I'll just give him my votes.
In an answer to Palmar several pages back, yeah I think prplhz is still probably scum, however I don't really mind the people who are dying according to his plan, it'll just be up to the town to kill him at a later date. As a brief clarification, whoever dies today will reveal the true scum for tomorrow.
If anyone wants my PMs with someone please let me know now, I'll be on TL for the next hour and thirty minutes. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| prplhz Denmark. May 08 2012 05:30. Posts 3921 | Profile Blog # |
| @Meapak_Ziphh I'd like all of your PMs If not, can you send them to wherebugsgo or syllogism or EchelonTee or something like that? |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 08 2012 05:32. Posts 4149 | Profile Blog # |
| Very well prplhz, it will take a bit as I'll need to log in and out of accounts. Since I still don't like you I'll post them in the thread rather than PM you. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| prplhz Denmark. May 08 2012 05:32. Posts 3921 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm think that gonzaw/slOosh might be on to something here, if there's a townie in there then he's probably dead instead of any scum. This is probably not a great plan since I thought it up so I'm a bit worried that people are just going along with it for the most. I hope everybody plays along and we kill the three and then we see what comes out of it. |
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| prplhz Denmark. May 08 2012 05:34. Posts 3921 | Profile Blog # |
| Sure Meapak_Ziphh, I didn't really expect you to give them to me hence my suggestion that you give it to some other people I mentioned three other players, they can't all be my scum buddies! |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 08 2012 05:37. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On May 08 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote:
I'm think that gonzaw/slOosh might be on to something here, if there's a townie in there then he's probably dead instead of any scum. This is probably not a great plan since I thought it up so I'm a bit worried that people are just going along with it for the most. I hope everybody plays along and we kill the three and then we see what comes out of it.
are you saying that they are on to something = we shouldn't do the plan or what? this needs to be clear or it could go haywire. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| prplhz Denmark. May 08 2012 05:47. Posts 3921 | Profile Blog # |
| No lets go through with it. Sorry for wobbling publicly, just listen to wherebugsgo and syllogism |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 08 2012 05:56. Posts 4149 | Profile Blog # |
I'm not posting my PMs with WBG, if you want them you'll have to ask him.
+ Show Spoiler +
Original Message From slOosh: Same here, can't really go after the other remaining scum until we lynch the ones we already found.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
Yup here are some reads. With BC's flip I'm now sold that cephiro is mafia. I'm still feeling great about a prplhz lynch as well as a sandroba lynch. I still have bad feelings about syllo and palmar although with the amount of great targets we have right now I'd like to kill them first and then move on to finding the others. I think wiggles might also be mafia, but again I'm more concerned with cleaning up what we've got in front of us right now.
What are your thoughts?
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: Given that both sandro and syllo are unlynchable then obviously that leaves prpl.
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: prpl or sandro. Neither has done sweet fuck all given all the suspicion that was on both of them and yet both are ignored for 0 known reason today. Instead people who are actively speaking out against them are the lynch targets. Seems very very very fishy. If i had to choose anyone other than those 2 currently it would be syllo for his post guarenteeing that sheth was scum (it shows an absolute opinion) that he has not shown on any of his other reads, yet he is not pushing that read.
Original Message From Cephiro: Apology accepted.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Well then I have no vested interest in trying to save you. I'll be in touch if you make it through the day, if you're town I'm sorry I didn't trust you more. If you're scum gj on fooling me for a couple days.
Original Message From Cephiro: I may not agree with your choice of target, and my powers aren't available for sale, so I am sorry, as is, I'll have to turn that offer down. Keep the worth of your opinion, and try to wake them up to reality before it's too late.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: If you can guarantee me that the target of my choice will die tonight then I'll get back in the game for you. I don't particularly care about my own life as town, if I die it'll serve the greater purpose. What I don't want to happen is my opinion becomes worthless.
Original Message From Cephiro: I won't need luck for this, because there are townies that aren't total retards, unfortunately they are a very small minority. -_- Anyway, it's your decision. If I would happen to die though (which I doubt), my flip will make anyone that trusted in me look better. I understand that you're too scared for your own life considering the block that exists. I'm just so fucking frustrated now, some retards take control since the start and almost all townies just blindly follow. -.- I wish I could just blow up 10 people at once.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: You shouldn't have posted what you did either wtf were you thinking, I'm gonna have to cut you loose, I can't sell my soul on the chance you're a vigi. Good luck fighting this lynch on your own, you're gonna need it.
Original Message From Cephiro: You should not have posted that post ._.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I'm gonna give it to you straight, you're actually in a bit of trouble. There is a rather substantial block which wants you dead asap. It's too large to be all scum, my guess is they've got a dt who's checked one of them which has increased their trust level. The fact that you brought up BC is a problem as well because I've heard from a few people that he's been super defensive of you and you of him. I really need to know that I can get you confirmed the second the night is over.
Original Message From Cephiro: I should have no problem surviving today, especially if Sheth gives me those full 5 votes. We'll have to see how the situation goes on, I think if possible we should save BC as well. Some of those are just so damn hopeless and can't see the scum is just herping and derping and doing whatever they want. At no point have they done that much to be considered as obvtown, but all time I see everyone just listening to Palm+syllo+gonzaw+wbg etc, frustrating. -_-
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
we're in a slight jam since most of the people I wanted to die ended up in the majority. I'm gonna make sure you don't get lynched but it''s gonna cost me a lot of political capital I've built up in the thread. I'm gonna need your vigi shot guaranteed at either sandroba or syllogism so that we'll be able to recover our reputations after today.
Basically you need to get confirmed via your shot.
Original Message From EchelonTee: ......... I really hope you're not the DT and that you claimed to Cephiro. Even if you checked him and got back green, GFs? Framers? =/ If you know the real DT, ffs keep it secret, even from me or anyone else you think is town. You never know about leaks or dingus players like Cephiro. There might be 3rd party I admit, but I really don't know how to recognize the signs of one. I have 0 experience with 3rd parties. If you think that explains Palmar's play, then maybe it's a lead. Lemme know about BC. It pains me because often if only one lynch can reach a general consensus, it's often a mislynch, while controversial lynches yield more info (Ver's guide), BC is the best lead we got atm.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: idk, it says a third party might be present in the OP and it's the only reason I could see Palmar acting like this. Anyway I'm in a bit of a transition period right now. You might be in the process of being the person I most believe is town, depending on how some things turn out. I think I may be able to support a BC lynch, I'll know more once people PM me back and I get a better sense of who's supporting who behind the scenes.
Original Message From EchelonTee: You really think there's a 3rd party? with 6 scum, that's already a potential 12town vs 6mafia, even if mafia is split. A 3rd party just makes it crazier for town. Syllo is looking worse as time goes on. He sent me this weird PM with subject line "Hi are you town":
Original Message From syllogism:
Because if you are, all you have to do is cooperate with us. I can guarantee you that we will keep lynching mafia pretty much every day as long as we've enough votes to control who gets lynched. If you are town, there is no reason not to take this over.
wth am I supposed to make of this? "listen to us or die. I'm definitely town trololol" -.- he has made almost no substantiated pushes or plans all game except for "i sheep palmar kthxbai" and "les kill sandroba cuz he lurk trolol". Syllogism is a strong, effective scumhunter as town. I don't see any of those traits. However about this cycle, I feel good about the BC lynch. We need scum dying, and with Foolishness, Palmar, and Syllo all on him, I can't believe that all 3 of those are scum pushing a mislynch. Obviously that doesn't exonerate any of them in the slightest, but it's a decent step forward to regaining town momentum.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I feel good about Cephiro for today, he's not going to die. Gonzaw is being an idiot although that doesn't give me much about his alignment. About syllo, he PM'd me asking for my answer (which is super scummy), in response I sent that thing claiming mafia for teh lulz. I think there's a good chance he's scum, I think Palmar is 3rd party and claimed it to syllo which started their little circlejerk thing they've got going.
Original Message From EchelonTee:
Hey,
have you been in PM contacts with Cephiro? How townie do you think he is? TBH I like gonzaw's case on him, and though gonzaw has been tunneling like a retarded lemming, I find gonzaw townie and Cephiro scummy. However I have been pming Cephiro and admittedly he has been open. I agree that Cephiro is not the best lynch for today, but I have trouble seeing him as "obvious townie" as some people have affirmed.
In other news, what was up with the exchange between you and syllogism? Syllogism's recent activity has been downright bad, with the whole "let's RNG but tell me the votes kthxbai" plan in particular being strange. Was he scummy in PMs with you? There's something fishy in the Palmar+syllogism circle, especially since that summation of town talent should be sniping scum and making good plans, not fear mong, spread hate, and in general be assholes.
Original Message From Cephiro: I may not agree with your choice of target, and my powers aren't available for sale, so I am sorry, as is, I'll have to turn that offer down. Keep the worth of your opinion, and try to wake them up to reality before it's too late.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: If you can guarantee me that the target of my choice will die tonight then I'll get back in the game for you. I don't particularly care about my own life as town, if I die it'll serve the greater purpose. What I don't want to happen is my opinion becomes worthless.
Original Message From Cephiro: I won't need luck for this, because there are townies that aren't total retards, unfortunately they are a very small minority. -_- Anyway, it's your decision. If I would happen to die though (which I doubt), my flip will make anyone that trusted in me look better. I understand that you're too scared for your own life considering the block that exists. I'm just so fucking frustrated now, some retards take control since the start and almost all townies just blindly follow. -.- I wish I could just blow up 10 people at once.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: You shouldn't have posted what you did either wtf were you thinking, I'm gonna have to cut you loose, I can't sell my soul on the chance you're a vigi. Good luck fighting this lynch on your own, you're gonna need it.
Original Message From Cephiro: You should not have posted that post ._.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I'm gonna give it to you straight, you're actually in a bit of trouble. There is a rather substantial block which wants you dead asap. It's too large to be all scum, my guess is they've got a dt who's checked one of them which has increased their trust level. The fact that you brought up BC is a problem as well because I've heard from a few people that he's been super defensive of you and you of him. I really need to know that I can get you confirmed the second the night is over.
Original Message From Cephiro: I should have no problem surviving today, especially if Sheth gives me those full 5 votes. We'll have to see how the situation goes on, I think if possible we should save BC as well. Some of those are just so damn hopeless and can't see the scum is just herping and derping and doing whatever they want. At no point have they done that much to be considered as obvtown, but all time I see everyone just listening to Palm+syllo+gonzaw+wbg etc, frustrating. -_-
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
we're in a slight jam since most of the people I wanted to die ended up in the majority. I'm gonna make sure you don't get lynched but it''s gonna cost me a lot of political capital I've built up in the thread. I'm gonna need your vigi shot guaranteed at either sandroba or syllogism so that we'll be able to recover our reputations after today.
Basically you need to get confirmed via your shot.
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Also, just so you know I'm not blindly giving all my votes to Cephiro. I simply want to see responses.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: syllo and Palmar only have power if you let them. They're both off their game and not doing a good job of guiding the thread (which is part of the reason I suspect syllo). I'd send in your vote and wait for round B. You're about to go on, gl hf!
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I have a vote. That is it. Bleh Syllo seems to be really strongly against me for pretty much no reason. Even before he started against me I just thought he was playing it weirdly. Bleh;; I don't want to have to fight someone like syllo or palmar.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Hmm that's fine, I thought when you said you had claimed it meant you had a power role and it would have been really bad if you had claimed to syllo.
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: I'm a vanilla townie. I'm kind of scared because a lot of people are making a big deal out of claiming. I'm just the random nobody in this situation.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Not to be too forward but if you've claimed to syllo then I'd like you to claim to me as well. Watching SoTG now :D
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: Yea I've noticed this. And I did claim to Syllo. It just takes time to analyze I don't want to give pointless posts and I haven't had time for that. Going to be on SoTG now even t.t;
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I am indeed a townie and I'll be your friend for now. Just know that there are lots of people who don't like you at the moment. Did you actually claim to Syllo? You would really help your case if you began posting a bit. Btw I watched your stream a bit yesterday, gj :D
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth: /nod :D Do you want to be friends? I'm not really friendful in this game. I've kinda felt isolated, but its probably because I'm not talking too much. Geuss its my own fault. Cephiro hasn't talked with me like I expected though so now I'm slightly worried. And Syllogism is acting crazy. These are the two I woulda probably buddied up to the quickest if I thought they were acting 100% townie. And Im not really sure they are. Are you a townie? 
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Oh lol. I actually don't really have anything against Torte anymore, it's just not worth it to be annoyed by people on the internet  [quote]
Original Message From EchelonTee: You really think there's a 3rd party? with 6 scum, that's already a potential 12town vs 6mafia, even if mafia is split. A 3rd party just makes it crazier for town. Syllo is looking worse as time goes on. He sent me this weird PM with subject line "Hi are you town":
Show nested quote +Original Message From syllogism:
Because if you are, all you have to do is cooperate with us. I can guarantee you that we will keep lynching mafia pretty much every day as long as we've enough votes to control who gets lynched. If you are town, there is no reason not to take this over.
wth am I supposed to make of this? "listen to us or die. I'm definitely town trololol" -.- he has made almost no substantiated pushes or plans all game except for "i sheep palmar kthxbai" and "les kill sandroba cuz he lurk trolol". Syllogism is a strong, effective scumhunter as town. I don't see any of those traits. However about this cycle, I feel good about the BC lynch. We need scum dying, and with Foolishness, Palmar, and Syllo all on him, I can't believe that all 3 of those are scum pushing a mislynch. Obviously that doesn't exonerate any of them in the slightest, but it's a decent step forward to regaining town momentum.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I feel good about Cephiro for today, he's not going to die. Gonzaw is being an idiot although that doesn't give me much about his alignment. About syllo, he PM'd me asking for my answer (which is super scummy), in response I sent that thing claiming mafia for teh lulz. I think there's a good chance he's scum, I think Palmar is 3rd party and claimed it to syllo which started their little circlejerk thing they've got going.
Original Message From EchelonTee:
Hey,
have you been in PM contacts with Cephiro? How townie do you think he is? TBH I like gonzaw's case on him, and though gonzaw has been tunneling like a retarded lemming, I find gonzaw townie and Cephiro scummy. However I have been pming Cephiro and admittedly he has been open. I agree that Cephiro is not the best lynch for today, but I have trouble seeing him as "obvious townie" as some people have affirmed.
In other news, what was up with the exchange between you and syllogism? Syllogism's recent activity has been downright bad, with the whole "let's RNG but tell me the votes kthxbai" plan in particular being strange. Was he scummy in PMs with you? There's something fishy in the Palmar+syllogism circle, especially since that summation of town talent should be sniping scum and making good plans, not fear mong, spread hate, and in general be assholes.
Original Message From Foolishness: syllogism, gonzaw, anyone else in the thread who is saying so. By certain you mean certain mafia right? Syllogism is giving me 99% guarantees that Palmar is town (as you know they are really close friends). I thought Palmar was town half way through day 1, but now I'm not so sure. syllogism isn't helping. round A is always going to be a crapshoot. You ain't helping the cause either by flipping a coin =P
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: lol who would "everyone" be? I'm not letting him die today. Things have been goodish between us so far so I want him alive a little longer. Some stuff will happen night 2 and depending on the outcome I'll be possibly willing to kill him day 3 if things don't turn out in his favor. I have to be honest with you, the only people I'm really certain about are prplhz/sandroba. I really don't have anyone who I'm sure is town, it's all shades of gray. I'm thinking syllo has a really good chance of being scum as does rad's replacement and I'm fairly certain Palmar is third party. There's just too much going on in PM land and not enough going on in the thread, I really wanted to take the round A time for everyone to talk about who they wanted dead but it looks like we're just gonna waste it with gonzaw being an idiot.
Original Message From Foolishness: Do you think Cephiro is mafia? Everyone else I seem to talk to wants to kill him. It's more than just gonzaw now.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Stupid VE really made things hard yesterday. I had one vote I wasn't sure what to do with, I should have given it to VE so both he and sandroba died.
Original Message From Foolishness: Well it's important! Either way I think there's a concurrent agreement that sandroba needs to die.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: You ask so much -_- If I had to guess families I'd put wiggles/sandroba in one family and syllo/prplhz in another. I really don't know where to put the third. And these are basically guesses, I'd have to look a lot closer in order to actually figure out who went where.
Original Message From Foolishness: Who is part of whose family? Maybe Sheth or chaoser for the last one
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's the scum:
sandroba, prplhz, radfield/sloosh, syllogism, wiggles, ____
Help me fill in that last blank and let's get this over with.
Oh Palmar is probably third party.
Original Message From syllogism: lol
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: My team was actually all online so we were able to arrange it ^^ Let's cut to the chase here, I think we can help each other. We'll be willing to exchange answers if you guys are.
Original Message From syllogism:
So which answer did you send in, yes or no?
I'm obviously town, so there is no reason not to share this information
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: Kk thanks for the heads up
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Hi I'm gonna be claiming scum to someone in PM, please remember I sent this if things get out of control.
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: yep all for it. The only exception will be if someone does some epic scumslip that requires being dealt with. Aside from that all for offing prpl
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
So if prplhz is in the majority tomorrow you'll help me kill him?
Original Message From Cephiro: Please do keep me up to date and clarify a bit more exactly what you're going to do, and send me the PMs you between you and Ace if they were of any value. (That is, if you still trust me). Whatever you're trying to do, good luck! I'm going to try and contact syllo.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Ok I think I'm going to do something like foolishness did with the "team chezinu" thing. The problem is I may have to claim mafia in PMs so I'm going to send you this PM now in case things get nasty.
Original Message From Cephiro: Here I go posting in the thread by mistake, derp -_- But yeah, I'm fairly sure even if I would happen to land in the majority I would not die. The thing is, I would like to see a few people from yesterday's minority in today's majority.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Well you're not dying today even if you're in the majority. Palmar/Syllo lost a lot of thread power, there's really no thread leader atm so I'm going to try and take that for a little while and see where it goes.
Original Message From Cephiro: Gotcha, I'll be waiting for that. I think I might try to get in the minority today, not sure yet.. will have to see. And yeah, I'll try to minimize my bantering with him.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: I'm on my itouch but when I'm back on my comp I'll give you everything I have which isn't a lot sadly. Gonzaw is an idiot, please don't engage him.
Original Message From Cephiro: We were a bit, not very seriously though. I could see there is a small chance that you could be scum, especially because you tried to get ensured of my vigi-ness, but you're so much more towny that even if you were scum I wouldn't want to kill you yet.
Original Message By Ace:
not thinking about him at all. just a fly trying to buzz on my honey jar.
/ Gonzaw Also, he said chaos seems more useful than Palmar & syllo. However even in PM land he wasn't being too serious with me, but I am not surprised of that at all. If you wish to share any information/opinion Ace talked out with you, then it's much appriciated.
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles: I just don't post much during the night, unless I have a reason to. What are your thoughts like right now? What do you think of BC? You didn't reply to my last PM, so we kind of stopped communicating.
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: I understand how you can view me the same way as him and tbh I also to a degree expect that. However I feel I have overall been more consistent in my mannerisms. As for prpl and cephiro I agree with you completely. I have read ceph's posts and talked to him via pms and he seems far less likely than most of being red. Sandroba was what would have been an easy lynch however since his "return" from his day that he was busy he has yet to do anything that has led me to believe he actually cares about the game aside from say "im confirmed town cause no one defended me / i was busy so its ok i wasn't here" Which is the same level of apathy that I expect from the scum level of sandro. He could still be insanely bitter from his treatment after SS but I don't think he would become like he is. I am happy to see I am not the only one who doesn't trust the palmar/syllo team.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Ok, thank you. I have no idea about katina, you may be right, more likely I'll just deal with it if Katina is ever in the majority. Foolishness I can understand as well, however both of you have had abysmal thread presence so I really don't know how much of foolishness's behavior is because he's mafia or because he just doesn't want to die night one. In all honesty I feel the same about you. I'm fairly certain Ace isn't mafia. However none of these players really matter at the moment. I'd rather hear what you have to say about prplhz, cephiro, and sandroba. As I posted in the thread, I think prplhz is mafia, I also think cephiro is town. I've listened to others for the most part when it comes to sandroba. I'd be happy to have him dead because I've seen him play scum like this. The only thing that makes me hesitant is that Palmar/Syllo also want him dead and I don't trust either of them.
Original Message From BloodyC0bbler: Strong read of mafia on Katina as I have already mentioned more than once. Reasons have already been stated in thread. Foolishness strong read as well. Why? Because he made a case on someone only to dump it to pursue 2 other people who were far easier lynches. He provided no real reason as to why he changed his mind and then proceeded to put votes onto the person he had analyzed as mafia to keep said person alive. Factor in Katina is his protege and has ignored her shifty behaviour leads me to believe he is infact red. Ace is clearly playing in his own best interest and has not shown any solid leanings to help town solidly not done anything actively that would be a "mafia goal" as such I believe that if there is a third party it is likely him given current information. As for the rest of the minority list it is clearly possible that one of syllo or palmar is red but as of yet I am unsure of which.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
I'd love to know your two reads. Since you seem somewhat reticent to post them in the thread why don't you PM me.
Original Message From Katina: Not stalling at all. I haven't read the thread yet but my opinion of Prplhz is that he is being inactive and that's not sitting well with me. Ace is dead, didn't think he was Mafia to begin with. Cephiro I'm not sure about, I have to go back and look at him. BC I think is Mafia, he has been throwing around accusations and picking on the easy targets until recently after he got called out on it. I have to go back and reread though. PM's with Foolishness
Show nested quote +Original Message From Foolishness: Kinda? He sort of did in LI. I would need to look closer to be absolutely sure. Don't you think VE buddy buddying up to people is a bit out of character for him? Seems more likely that he would be actively pointing fingers and trying to get stuff done.
Original Message From Katina: Does VE buddy up when he's mafia?
Original Message From Foolishness: Not really no. Though time will only tell for sure. As I told you I'd be fine with any of VE, chaoser, bugs, Palmar dying. I'm glad VE is actually trying to mafia hunt but he's too buddy buddy with everyone this game -_-
Original Message From Katina:
So far you have pushed Chaoser, judging from his reactions do you still think he's mafia?
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Now you're stalling. Please don't make this difficult.
Original Message From Katina: Just got home and I'm exhausted. I will give you everything when i wake up.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Very well, I'll be waiting.
Original Message From Katina: I can't give you everything at the moment I'm about to leave soon. I think that BC, Palmar, and Radfield (before he was replaced) were mafia. I will give you everything else when I get back.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
Your scum reads, your PMs with foolishness, and your opinion of the following people: Ace, prplhz, Cephiro, and BC.
I want them now.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Foolishness: Yes there will be challenges convincing people. However this is the difference between killing who we want to kill and random people dying. If the votes are structured in a way then one person cannot screw everything up. Say there are 11 people up for lynch. We want to kill one person. We have 18*5 = 90 votes to work with. Spread them out between 10 people and you got 9 votes per person. So if one person tries to deviate by piling their votes on they won't be successful. Getting a way to get those 9 votes per person is easy enough. Just a matter of finding a person to kill really (yes I realize there are big problems with that lol)
Original Message From Katinaa: I agree that there needs to be structure in the votes. Getting everyone to follow the plan will be a challenge considering the mafia players and how convincing they (or you) are. One person can completely screw everything up.
Original Message From Foolishness: Yes because there needs to be accountability. The town as a whole has to agree on someone to kill. Of course there will be people who disagree with the choice, which is fine. But deviating from the vote plan would be more chaotic. We can structure the votes in such a way that no one on their own can deviate to try to save someone. This is because we have more people voting than there are lynch candidates.
Original Message From Katinaa: Do you really think that shooting is the appropriate way to go about it? There's always the possibilty of taking out a mislead townie.
Original Message From Foolishness: foam* There needs to be an accurate way to distribute votes during the second round to ensure that the person we want to kill actually dies. Some sort of system needs to be established. What I have in mind is the following. We first pick who we want to kill (say it's just one person for simplicity). We then figure out how to distribute the votes to ensure that that person is actually lynched. If someone deviates then we shoot them.
Original Message From Katinaa: Not really at the moment. The game just started, I am a mere observer sir. I have my scum hunting goggles on with a foam finger in my other hand. You?
Original Message From Foolishness: It will become clear in due time I promise. Do you have any thoughts about the game, such as how to cast the votes (particularly during round B since that's most important)?
Original Message From Katinaa: I don't believe you.
Original Message From Foolishness:
Town with a capital T
[quote]
Show nested quote +Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Now you're stalling. Please don't make this difficult.
Original Message From Katina: Just got home and I'm exhausted. I will give you everything when i wake up.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh: Very well, I'll be waiting.
Original Message From Katina: I can't give you everything at the moment I'm about to leave soon. I think that BC, Palmar, and Radfield (before he was replaced) were mafia. I will give you everything else when I get back.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
Your scum reads, your PMs with foolishness, and your opinion of the following people: Ace, prplhz, Cephiro, and BC.
I want them now.
Original Message From Ace: no problemo!
Show nested quote +Original Message From Motbob is great:
idk who you're planning on voting for but I was wondering if you could throw a vote or two my way.
Original Message From EchelonTee: So you prefer PMs to motbob right? I'll respond to you here. I think your case is pretty comprehensive and I agree with a lot of the 2nd half of it. Especially how prplhz hasn't been scumhunting and stuff. I don't know about the meta part of your argument (I bet people will go blah blah meta and ignore the 2nd part of your arguement), because the scum game you mentioned was a crazy themed game, and this game is also a themed game. I think part of the equation that needs to be mentioned is what has prplhz been doing in PM land. In the last game I played with prplhz, Space Station Mafia, it was a PM game and prplhz literally posted nothing. I tried to use this to mislynch him (I was scum), but it turned out he was doing somethings in PM land. If prplhz has been pro-townie in PMs, that shouldn't be ignored. Do you know anyone who has been PMing with him? However, of note is that in this game he has been actively lurking, not just plain ol lurking. As in he posted little tidbits here and there (as you noted) that make it seem like he is contributing, but not really doing much. And since he was around to post those tidbits, he could've posted more if he wanted to. I would be down with killing him. The problem though is that he currently has 6 claimed votes: 1 from Palmar, 1 from VE, and 4 from chaoser. Unless chaoser didn't send in his votes, the chance of prplhz dying today is slim to none. If you can't get prplhz dead, would you be ok with VE dying? What do you think of chaoser piling votes on him with no reasoning?
Show nested quote +Original Message From Motbob is great:
I'll PM you! how are you and what do you think about killing prplhz?
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles: How else would you propose to vote this phase then? Everyone's quick to jump on my idea and bash it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest their own system yet. Realistically, I think this is going to end up with people voting whoever they want, which in my mind will cause just as much, if not more, chaos. By people just doing whatever they want, we get a random chance for who's in the majority or minority, as well their sizes. I don't like the idea of scum being able to make themselves safe, because I'm calling it now, anyone who gets into the minority is instantly going to have any suspicion on them dissipate, as they can't be lynched. This gives them a whole cycle before anyone can even think of lynching them, and I think it's going to make actually killing scum with the lynch a whole lot harder, since people will give up their cases, and pressure will instantly disappear.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Motbob is great: ugh yeah, I didn't realize they were gonna nuke the thread, I just wanted to observe the carnage . Ahh well, at least I've been immortalized in a screen shot lolol. Thankfully his excellency motbob let me make a smurf haha. Anyway, I guess I'll be blunt. I really don't like your idea of having everyone advance to the next round. It really makes a lot of chaos and imo would create a really easy situation for scum to influence the vote.
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles: How's it going? I see you got temped in the ABL
Original Message From Foolishness: Yes I agree. Though remember that all the vote information will be published at the end of the day. So we will know who voted where everytime. The first few days will be clusterfucks for sure. It's not until there are a few people alive where round A really matters.
Show nested quote +Original Message From Motbob is great: Well I'll look into it if I get my shit finished. I have a 3 hour break during school so if I get everything done I can go play mafia in the library lol. Anyway, I had this thought while I was in the shower, it's pretty much guaranteed that there will be half of the mafia on one side and half on the other in the beginning of the game. Even though there's two teams, I don't see anyone in this game as suicidal enough to put more of their members on one side or the other. It's with this in mind that I don't think we should ever publish which side we pick (for round A). It's a rare case where the town can withhold information from the mafia. Perhaps latter in the game this will change, but atm I think it's best if everyone withheld that info. With this in mind, when we get to round B we can really have a chance to narrow down our targets.
Original Message From Foolishness: Yes, I know deciding on who to kill is like a huge problem in itself x.x It might be worth looking into. I am not the kind of person to do that myself, I prefer just looking at past behavior as you know. But activity is always an issue and it's all too easy to lurk as mafia. Though this is a PM game so if someone (me lol) is really inactive in the thread they might be super active in PM land. Might not be the most accurate judge compared to a non-PM game. But in terms of generating discussion to get the ball rolling I totally support it.
Original Message From Motbob is great: The hard part here is deciding who to kill, that's the part I was referring to as prevoting. But that aside, we're gonna need some sort of system and this is better than anything that's been proposed in the thread... speaking of the thread, do you think it's worth looking for people who were active on TL up until the point the game started and are now quiet?
Original Message From Foolishness: Yes. It's not prevoting. We first decide who we want to kill. Then we can structure the votes in a way to ensure that person gets killed. We have more players voting than there are lynch candidates, which means we can do it in a way to prevent one person from deviating to try to save the person in question.
Original Message From Motbob is great: You're saying like have an organized vote and a lynch? I think conceptually it's a good idea, however I'm leery of "prevotes" those have a pretty shoddy track record iirc. The blessing a curse with this system is that a lot of people can die very fast.
Original Message From Foolishness: lulz Ace What do you think about the following. We first pick who we want to kill (say it's just one person for simplicity). We then find a way to distribute votes accordingly so that that person is actually lynched. Like everyone just votes for the person under them in the player list (that is up for lynch). Anyone who deviates is immediately shot.
Original Message From Motbob is great: Gotta agree with you there, I'm not too keen on Wiggle's plan to control round A, it may seem like a good idea but it's impossible to enforce. You can go against the grain day one and conceivable never get lynched. Plus you'll have players like Ace who will probably go the opposite regardless of his alignment just to show how dumb it is.
Original Message From Foolishness:
Glad to see you're still alive.
Got any thoughts about the game? I think town should focus on distributing votes during round B and deciding who to kill. It appears round A will be a clusterfuck day 1 (and probably day 2) so it seems futile to try to organize anything there.
Original Message From Liquid`Sheth:
yo meapak,
I claimed to syllogism.
He might be mafia tho
who ar u most worrieedd abot?
Original Message From EchelonTee: Hey, can I still PM you here or are you using motbob? I was wondering, why did you switch from thinking I'm townie to not minding killing me? That makes me mildly alarmed.
Show nested quote +Original Message From TLMafiaBot: I agree with that. It's been a while but iirc Wiggles makes plans either way so I'm not really reading into his alignment too much. The only thing I'm doing is not calling him insta scum for a bad plan. In terms of my own playstyle I'm usually pretty active but atm I'm trying to conserve posts because I know new accounts have post limits but I forgot what. My plan is to not die the first day then I can be back on my game when I have my real account back, it's a little difficult right now switching back and forth
Original Message From EchelonTee: Like you said it's only been a few hours; people are probably away. With it being only limited to TL PMs I don't think the thread should be that dead, especially with the fact that the format of this game demands vigilance. I'm waiting to see if any of the plans are a good idea. To be perfectly honest, I usually regard people who make plans to be more town than not, whether the plan is bad or not, but this works better for newbie players, who often make really bad plans. This is because making a plan in and of itself requires one to be put into spotlight, and to honestly think of how their plan would be considered pro-town, whereas most scum would rather hide, or just shit on other people's plans. I only remember one example of when a plan-maker was scum, and that became obvious because the plan was sort of half baked. Do you know if Wiggles always makes plans whether scum or town? I have never seen your play before. Do you usually play a lurky in-thread style, or is it just because the thread is quiet?
Original Message From TLMafiaBot: Well that's in terms of my gut reads three hours into the game of course. I don't necessarily suspect wiggles, he's just one of the players who likes to have a plan, however the contents were terrible. The thread is currently pretty quiet because everyone is playing in PMs right now, I'm trying to think up something that would kick start some activity. Apparently new users aren't allowed enough PMs for mafia...
Original Message From EchelonTee: Thanks, though I do not think I have done enough to be considered super townie as of yet. =/ bah you're right, I probably should have questioned Mr. Wiggles or waited to see if people sheeped it. I pm'd some people about him, but just re-reading his posts had me suspicious as fck. How many PMs are new users allowed?
Original Message From TLMafiaBot:
Thank you for your post, you're now extremely townie in my mind.
Wiggles plan is pretty bad but I'm trying to see if anyone comes out in support of it. You called it out nicely though so that opportunity may now be gone.
Meapak
Original Message From VisceraEyes: We still have to kill someone today. Crucification doesn't come into it. Good luck in class.
Show nested quote +Original Message From TLMafiaBot:
Rather than spam up the thread I figure we can take it to PMs. (This is motbob/meapak btw). Scum hunting is great, however you have to realize that not everyone wants to be forthcoming in the beginning of the game. Plus people may not have strong reads yet. I'll tell you this, I'm concerned about Syllo but I'm not gonna go crucify him yet. I don't have a rock solid scum read yet but this far into the game that doesn't concern me.
I have to go to class, I'll catch up later.
Original Message From Foolishness: Yeah I agree. Though Wiggles' plan seems legit. By that I mean seems like an honest town effort so far.
Show nested quote +Original Message From TLMafiaBot: What a fascinating post by EchelonTea, I wasn't the only one who didn't like Wiggles plan apparently...
Original Message From Foolishness: I think the votes published for Round A may help us down the road in figuring things out as well. I don't think we need the confusion here. Round B should be about who we want to kill, not who we want to save. The less people to worry about the easier it will be to kill someone.
Original Message From TLMafiaBot:
So anyway to continue our conversation, I think it's good that the votes will be published for round B, that'll at least keep things honest. I also just realized that since there are two scum teams killing a mafia won't insta confirm you :/
Also I think wiggle's plan is actually pretty good for scum because of the confusion it creates. I told him that privately but I'm not gonna denounce it in the thread yet because I want to see if anyone comes raging out in support of it for weak reasons.
They're a bit haphazard but this is as many as I could find. If you have one I missed please post it. |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 08 2012 06:22. Posts 4149 | Profile Blog # |
| guys it's a beautiful day where I live and I'm sitting in the library instead of hanging with my friends in order to talk with ya'll. Please ask some questions or something, otherwise I'm just gonna pack up and go chill. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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