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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 24 2012 04:17. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 03:47 slOosh wrote:
Bahaha did not see this one coming. Wow, katina really pulling through for me. Sorry I thought you were scum. But I thought Mr. Wiggles was scum too, so now I'm really .... woah. Hahaha.
I guess my initial reservations of the trio weren't unfounded. Just didn't expect two members in it.
And gonzaw you just called me scum?
Yes I did.
I told MZ before the day ended that I was paranoid about you. See, MZ wanted to give 5 votes to you to save you and let Katina and Wiggles die alone.
Then it hit me....perhaps you were playing so "selflessly" just so we could do something like that. If everybody thought Wiggles and Katina were scum, by extension everybody would think you are town. Therefore it would be more likely you'd receive at least some votes to get Wiggles and Katina to die alone.
I knew that was a possibility, which is why I told Meapak to just follow the plan like it was. It seemed to work for you since Katina saved you (thank you Katina, Cephiro #2 at this point).
On May 24 2012 03:52 slOosh wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 16:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Greetings fellow players.
It is mathematically impossible for town to win. Even if scum doesn't have any KP, tomorrow will be a 2v2 situation. The two final scum can claim (or perhaps they already are in contact) and force the town into an unwinnable situation.
Here's how. Both scum simply vote opposite each other, it'll only work once but they may get lucky and have both townies vote the same way. In this case there will be 3 in the majority. In this case both townies are dead along with one scum, leaving the other team victorious.
However, if it doesn't work the first time then the game will be caught in a perpetual round A scenario with the two townies and the two scum voting opposite of each other.
This is what's going to happen with no night kills. If there are night kills then scum can just have a draw between themselves by claiming now and coordinating hits.
I again ask that the night be sped up, if the hosts aren't declaring a draw now that makes me think that scum has KP left.
Again, town can't win without one of the scum teams quitting which in my book is an unwinnable situation.
Sure it's possible. Actually, this is freakishly like the actual liar game situation. And here is how it goes. I am voting yes to whatever the question will be. Therefore, you are all auto prisoner scenario. And I will continue to vote yes forever. And then its a draw ... yea Meapak is right. Strange - even if you were able to correctly deduce the last scum members you are not guaranteed a win, or even a draw.
Nice scumslip there.
You are wrong about something:
In Game 2 of the manga, there were 4 different factions
Each player wanted to win by himself, which is why the situation was a "stalemate" (at least initially and what Akiyama made everybody think so).
Right now there are 2 different one-man factions that want to do exaclty that to win (both scum teams).
...however, this is a two-man faction left: Town.
Remember how Akiyama won that game? He teamed up with another dude and Akiyama won because of that. It's the same here, since town has 2 members left, we can win only if both townies work each other just like in the manga (or similar).
I had a similar plan like that, but I need to contact the townie to implement it better and discuss ways to fool scum, but I'm paranoid as fuck right now and I don't really trust anyone from ET/MZ, even if I have some reservations about them.
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| EchelonTee United States. May 24 2012 08:33. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
It seemed to work for you since Katina saved you (thank you Katina, Cephiro #2 at this point).
what's that gonzaw? are you.... Katina bashing?
Sloosh what do you mean about "auto prisoner" situation? |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 24 2012 10:13. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
Yes, I'm kind of frustrated right now about that.
Katina put her 5 votes on scum and saved him. Had she not we would be 2-1 right now and have a better chance of lynching the single remaining scum tomorrow. |
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| Protactinium Canada. May 24 2012 12:01. Posts 550 | Profile # |
![[image loading]](http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRH4WjuQGhzYSHAGXH4n7SuRhMaGESTxvyC9IK3DvAOyba3VbnzVkj5WJP7nQ) Day[9]
gonzaw of the Yokoya Posse finally paid for his sins.
It is now Round A (Minority Voting)!
The statement for today's game is:
La vérité vaut bien qu'on passe quelques années sans la trouver.
-Renard
If you agree with this statement, vote yes.
If you disagree with this statement, vote no.
Round A (Minority Round) ends in 24 hours at 8PM PDT (8PM PDT[local] your time). Please PM your vote (Yes/No) to me before then.Last edit: 2012-05-24 12:03:19 |
| | And so, we find the Sublime. |
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| chaoser United States. May 24 2012 12:03. Posts 5538 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul. |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. May 24 2012 12:04. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
"I knew I shouldn't have trusted you fools!"
-Yokoya |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 24 2012 16:06. Posts 4150 | Profile Blog # |
ahhh lylo. Truthfully, my favorite part of the game. Two choices, one pure townie good, the other vile mafia evil. Which is which is the ultimate question. We all know by know how to force someone into the majority, however it requires two to pull this off. Tonight, I am rereading the thread. Tomorrow I will know who is town and then we will act.
I will not being PMing during this period, I'm not going to be creating any harebrained planes until after I've figured out who is who. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 24 2012 16:15. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
ho ly ballsssssssss that flip :o
I said I was almost certain he was scum but still, damn... 
also, Day9!! :D |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| slOosh May 25 2012 02:38. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
Well, can't say I anticipated either the existence of KP nor the family flip. Well done katina, and well done gonzaw.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k5j26.jpg) What I have voted
Here's the breakdown. I have voted no. There is one scum and one town. Here are the possible scenarios.
You all vote no with me. This is an optimal situation, however we should not aim for this. Town forfeits the win if both townies vote the same and end up in 2-1 split (ends up in a draw 1-1 unless there is more KP / special endgame scenario in which case scum win)
One of you vote no and the other votes yes. Now I've covered what happens if scum get into minority. If the other townie gets into minority then they have the choice who to save. I trust said townie to make the right choice (i.e. put 5 on me and we win game).
Both of you vote yes. Then I let both of you die with 0 votes and town victory. That is the safe way where I am least susceptible to manipulation/paranoia.
Thus if you truly believe I'm town, then voting yes (opposite to me) will be the safest course of action.
If the townie trusts me he will vote opposite me. Scum will end up in majority no matter what.
If I am majority: Everyone votes illegally -> me and scum die -> we win
If I am minority: Everyone votes illegally -> both of you die -> we win
If you think I am the scum, then you have to split 1-1 to get me into the majority, plain and simple. If you trust other guy enough to do that, then I suppose you can fight over who gets to be opposite to me (i.e. minority). If your town read and thus level of trust is that strong then well played scum gg. But I doubt that such a strong read exists, especially with your tattered trio flipping 1 scum already.
Why you can trust the plan:
- I have no manipulation in what the third player will vote. Whether I am in majority or minority is at their discretion. In fact, if the townie votes opposite me he too can just let me die, for if scum hits minority we lost already anyways. Therefore we as town will win.
- I am town. Look at my filter. If I am pulling strings in the background with the other guy thinking that you are scum, you would have already lost, and therefore you can eliminate that thought.
So do the right thing. Vote Yes, and we can finally win this. |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 25 2012 03:31. Posts 4150 | Profile Blog # |
The million dollar question is: which of you benefited more from killing gonzaw. It all boils down to this, gonzaw was lining up a lynch on sloosh, ET was lining up a lynch on gonzaw. The best course of action for sloosh is to kill gonzaw and take it from there. The best course of action for ET however, would have been to leave gonzaw alive and then try to mislynch him. With gonzaw's death, the case ET was building is now gone. Sloosh on the other hand has had a nice break. He's finally got a day where gonzaw isn't breathing down his back, and he knows that the me/ET/gonzaw circle could and probably would have killed him today. Ultimately, sloosh as scum makes more sense given the actions of the game and the kill last night.
I will be voting No to put him in the majority. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| slOosh May 25 2012 04:12. Posts 1921 | Profile # | |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 25 2012 06:27. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
...I did make it clear to sloosh that I thought he was town, and that you two were scum.
If MZ was scum, he would've shot me; I don't see any other reasonable choice. Gonzaw either truly believed sloosh was the other scum, or knew he was a mislynch; either way he was not at all going to kill MZ. MZ has nothing to gain by killing gonzaw, other than losing an ally and attempting to win me over through WIFOM, while he has everything to gain from killing me. Why win through a WIFOM arguement when you could just kill people suspicious of you and win with your "scumbuddy"? Though I suppose, it is possible that MZ knew gonzaw was scum and didn't want to draw in a 1-1-1 kingmaker scenario (i.e. shoot me and gonzaw remains), which is pretty logical, except for the fact that MZ had called for a draw earlier in the game.
If sloosh was scum, he could've either shot MZ or gonzaw; shooting me makes no sense, as I was his only supporter. Him shooting MZ could've worked, since it would leave only him and gonzaw alive, and I had essentially given my support to sloosh over PMs; I had also expressed confidence that gonzaw was scum based off of meta and a few slips, while I was still internally debating between MZ and sloosh. Shooting gonzaw doesn't entirely make sense from sloosh's perspective... it would force me to re-analysze both MZ and sloosh, whereas if he simply shot MZ then I would want to kill gonzaw. The only thing that mixes this up is the two family thing; if sloosh believed me when I said gonzaw was scum, then shooting MZ would result in a 1-1-1 scenario... I feel like sloosh wanted that less than MZ. Hrmph.
What I don't completely trust is you guys claiming your votes. For all I know, one or both of you could be lying to end up in the minority in some weird way and from either a town or scum perspective, you would most definitely want to end up in the minority. Scum - in minority = game is won, town - in minority = able to make that judgement on who to vote.
Going to write up my full thoughts on you two below, after re-reading again. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 25 2012 06:27. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 08:33 EchelonTee wrote:
Show nested quote + It seemed to work for you since Katina saved you (thank you Katina, Cephiro #2 at this point).
what's that gonzaw? are you.... Katina bashing?
also, would just like to highlight this again; Katina bashing, the ultimate way to find scum. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| slOosh May 25 2012 07:09. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
| Town in minority is insta win for towns. No need to cast saving votes, just let both people die, have a good laugh afterwards. |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 25 2012 07:22. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
| Are illegal votes allowed? I was under the impression they were sort of allowed as a warning, but using it as a game mechanic is fine? |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 25 2012 07:30. Posts 4150 | Profile Blog # |
| Given the lack of action taken whenever people have made illegal votes I'd say they're fine. |
| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 25 2012 07:32. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
If I base my opinion solely on the recent deaths and past few days, then I would say MZ is town.
However, if I consider the whole game, I would say sloosh is town.
Either way, I'm voting Yes. I'll ask Protact if it's ok for me to vote for neither which = town victory, but it seems unreasonable that town could cop out of LYLO in that way. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| EchelonTee United States. May 25 2012 07:38. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
Sloosh wouldn't have lied about his vote. If so, then if the townie believed him, then they would both be in the majority, which is just dumb as either scum or town as it would ruin his plan. MZ could've lied about his vote, but in that case it would be sloosh in the minority, me+MZ in the majority. Essentially sloosh wouldn't have lied because his plan hinges on being in the minority, and therefore MZ has no way to avoid being in the majority. I am fine with this; gonzaw tried to sway my opinion on sloosh, but this time, I think I see things clearly. And if it's true about the illegal votes, if I'm in the minority this is a town victory. Woot.
After all, using the rule of Katina bashing, MZ Gonzaw = Katina bashers, sloosh =/= Katina basher.
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| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Meapak_Ziphh United States. May 25 2012 07:43. Posts 4150 | Profile Blog # |
Why is the die cast Sloosh?
So ET does that mean you're going to kill me?
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| | Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat |
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| slOosh May 25 2012 07:49. Posts 1921 | Profile # |
My vote is cast. I do not lie. I have anticipated the ending. I am wondering who else has.
Hahaha, I dunno I just really got into this serious liar game mood I suppose. But yes. I have casted my vote a long time ago and I really do wonder what tonight's results will be. I'll see you guys tomorrow. |
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